Are you new here? 
That’s exactly what some posters do in almost every thread in which they participate.
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Maybe we will be lucky enough to find out. Some guesses: huge endowments = lots of funded opportunities like internships and research, powerful connections, in some cases smaller classes all taught by profs, consistently high caliber students.
It’s not worth it to many families. It’s worth it to ours for a small set of schools that my kids have a a very tiny change of getting in to. A very good school with merit is an excellent alternative.
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I’m all for people cheerleading the schools they are excited to attend (or see their children attend). I’m a little disappointed when posters list what they consider the ‘special sauce’ at certain colleges and universities…and it is the same stuff offered at many schools.
But hey, maybe that special sauce tastes different on a burger enveloped in the school branded wrapper? We do eat first with our eyes.
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100% agree. I don’t subscribe to the idea that all schools are the same, and therefore you should go to the cheapest school you can get into.
I agree with that as well. No one should get themselves into a financial hole to go to an “elite” school.
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And also in some ways the only way to snag a seat. It’s like a giant game of musical chairs. After ED, the number of ‘available’ chairs is halved at top schools. EA / ED2 removes even more chairs. By the time you get to RD, there are fewer & fewer chairs and the music is going faster and faster. I wonder if limiting the number of schools you can apply to on Common App would get parents/students to be more selective. But what’s that number? And then there are schools with their own apps that would dodge this. It’s just so easy to throw another app or two out there “just in case” or because “why not?” Seems everyone is doing that this year - hence, the delayed release dates for EA results “because we are swamped with applications.”
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Is there a list somewhere as to which schools require EA to be offered merit aid? Only one I’m currently thinking about for S23 is USC. All others we applied to for D21 required nothing more than a regular application, and we specifically did not apply EA for some to increase the chances that they’d get more merit aid (although maybe that strategy only works for ED).
I don’t understand your argument (although I do agree with you that not every college is worth what they are charging). How is merit the only realistic path to affording college if by your own admission you CAN afford college- you just want to retain the right to decide when and if you will pay?
There are families who cannot afford the cheapest option- I am 100% behind figuring out how to get those kids- who want, and are ready for it- a college education. I get less enthusiastic about taking a whack to the entire system when it’s for families who CAN afford it, but would rather not pay for it (wouldn’t we all?)
Can you explain your logic?
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many families do not qualify for financial aid but cannot afford full pay. Merit is their best path to affording college. That is not the case for our family. We can afford full pay but most schools are not worth $80k/year whether I can afford it or not. My kids also would prefer to retain their college savings to pay for graduate school, and may decide on less expensive (public and/or merit) undergrad colleges to do just this. You seem to support need based financial aid-- which is available nearly everywhere. Non-need-based merit is not for the purpose you stated but to attract students who might otherwise choose to attend elsewhere. I think you’re saying you don’t support merit aid. Most elite schools have eliminated it b/c they don’t need it to attract top students. But where it is offered, students will go after it for a variety of reasons and need is not necessarily one of them.
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In our case, I told DS there were very few schools with exceptional departments for his major we were willing to go into substantial debt for him to attend because we believe those schools offer exceptional education. Otherwise he would need to go in state or attend the ones that are giving him merit aid. We might still borrow, but not as substantially. I guess “afford” is a relative term to me.
I am also not a believer that all schools are the same. Clearly a caluclus class at Caltech isn’t the same as a calculus class at Bard. Those two schools would attract very different types of students.
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I did NOT say that I didn’t support merit aid. But it isn’t true that need based aid is available “nearly” everywhere. The public U’s in my state offer VERY limited need based aid. You can afford it? Great. You can’t afford it? Try community college (which is affordable with Pell for low income families, but it requires living within commuting distance so the community college system does not cover the entire state). And my state is not unique.
I think this is a dereliction of duty of the public education system. There ARE merit based scholarships available to snag the students you are talking about- who have other choices, but the merit entices them. But subsidizing families who can afford full freight at these institutions but would rather get a merit discount (who wouldn’t?) at the expense of need based aid for families who cannot afford a college education AT ALL- nah. I don’t think that’s good public policy.
What private institutions do with their own money- heck, give Bill Gate’s kid a merit scholarship, I don’t care. But the trend you laud- more merit, for people who can afford it but would rather save it for grad school-- when it’s happening at a public institution- I think it’s a pernicious dig at the bottom quartile of our society to benefit the top quartile.
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I think we’re mixing EAs designed by schools with different purposes in mind:
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EA as a way for applicants to demonstrate interest (including for merit consideration) for schools that do NOT offer ED; and
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EA as a way to attract more applications from applicants who wouldn’t apply otherwise, for schools that ALSO offer ED.
We need to differentiate between the different EAs first in order to determine whether EA may backfire on highly qualified applicants.
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I don’t disagree with you wrt public schools. But since many do offer merit, don’t blame the families trying to get it. And for what it’s worth, the schools that offer it, in some cases, benefit from the top students that money attracts. Alabama for example. All those NMFs do a lot to boost a school’s reputation.
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Not sure if your comment was directed toward me -
I’m not telling someone the value of the school on the list and for those posters that clearly were pointed at my comment - you are making assumptions without knowing the intent.
At @Techno13 made this comment - We are willing to be full pay at a few elite schools but below that, nope. - and I was simply asking what is obtained at whatever they deem an eliate school vs. a non-elite - since they brought up this delineation.
I did not suggest, recommend or push the more inexpensive school. I asked what was to be gained by paying full as was suggested in the comment.
And @Techno13 responded - lots of funded opportunities like internships and research, powerful connections, in some cases smaller classes all taught by profs, consistently high caliber students.
Of course one might decide - $30K at one school is better than $80K at an “elite” - however one defines elite. Or they might decide the $80K is better.
I was simply trying to understand the thought process - and wasn’t making judgements. But I’m glad those who responded to my comment were.
I asked because out of a personal curiosity: both my kids got into elite/semi elite names but chose lesser pedigree schools on their own. I see what they get - I don’t know what they would have gotten. From a career POV, my Senior did better than the average (from last year anyway) of the elite school in each of his 5 offers…but that doesn’t mean his day to day was equal, better or worse. I don’t know - I’ll never know. He didn’t research (by choice) but there’s plenty of opportunity and he interned for two summers.
For my second, I think her advising isn’t great (she’s got 3 whereas I’d hope it’d be one and they’d help in all areas). As she says, one is condescending vs. helpful although I’m not there to be a part of it. But I don’t know that the elite LAC she would have gone to would be better or not or worth the $60K a year difference. Her opportunities, the external contacts she’s been exposed to and made at the “lesser” school have been outstanding IMHO, not to say they wouldn’t be outstanding elsewhere too.
But it was simply a question of curiosity as to why the statement was made - and @Techno13 politely answered.
Thank you.
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There are some schools forgetting merit - you need to apply EA to get in - especially in some majors - a UMD, Purdue, Illinois, the Floridas, etc. Pitt, to get merit, it’s best to go early.
In general, if they offer EA, you should apply EA - short of maybe being borderline and needing to submit mid year grades.
Not applying EA to get more merit makes little sense (to me). If they offer, apply - otherwise they’ll think you’re a disinterested applicant throwing a hail mary just to see.
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Do they boost the school’s reputation or do they enhance the rigor of the education? Two different things. I fully support any action that a college takes to deliver more- more rigor, more exposure to cutting edge thinking, more formal and informal opportunities to be mentored by professors who are leaders in their field, more more more.
But the folks I know IRL whose kids have chased merit- to be honesty- really don’t care about any of that. They are looking for bragging rights… “The college of cupcakes loved Susie’s application so much they are PAYING her to attend” (even when it’s a 5K discount off a 65K price tag). They are looking to save a buck (nothing wrong with that of course, but they get defensive and need to start spouting statistics about average SAT scores), and they are looking to preserve their lifestyle (not have to sell the beach cottage, give up the ski trips, etc.)
Again, all fine and good. I don’t tell people how to spend their money. But I’d love to see some research (year to year or longitudinal) that shows the impact of those NMF’s on places like Alabama. Are “better” professors leaving Carnegie Mellon to teach at Alabama now that they’ve got NMF’s? Is IBM shifting research grants away from Michigan and Berkeley and MIT and moving it to Alabama because of all those NMF’s? Are undergrads entering grad school with stronger research chops from Alabama vs. peer institutions that are not as aggressive with merit aid?
I’m not being argumentative… just would love to see/hear and argument about merit which digs deeper into the “more NMF’s makes a better university”.
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True, some schools fill 1/2 the class in ED, but in RD they have to ADMIT more than the 50% available seats because of yield (they aren’t getting everyone accepted in RD to matriculate). For simplicity, say the school has 1000 seats, 50% are filled in ED, and the overall yield is 40% (which is far above average). Assuming 100% yield for the 500 ED seats, the school will have to admit 2,000 students in RD to yield 500 students in RD.
Common app does limit the number of schools one can apply to at 20. Students applied on average to 6.22 schools via common app in 2021-22. Of course, many schools aren’t on the common app and/or have their own app and/or use the coalition app. But there are more applicants applying to 10+ common app schools too (17% last year):
High-volume application behavior is a relatively isolated, but increasing phenomenon.
More than half of applicants apply to five or fewer members on the Common App platform, and the modal applicant applies just once. However, and partly due to steady growth in the number
of members on the platform, the average number of applications submitted has been steadily
increasing, from 4.63 in 2013-14 to 6.22 in the 2021-22 season. The proportion of applicants
applying to more than ten members has roughly doubled, from 8% to 17%, between 2014-15 and
2021-22.
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The families I personally know of that benefited from merit money are not “top quartile” in our high COL area. They are “donut hole” families who did not get financial aid (or did not get enough) and could not afford to pay full cost. Merit awards helped them, and if colleges want to hand these out to attract certain types of applicants, I don’t see an issue.
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I think a lot of people are “destined” to low cost schools because their families don’t see value in high cost.
On the CC, we are people who like to explore, learn about, and apply to a vast amount of schools.
I’m sure where I live (Nashville), tons - even top kids - apply to UTK as the flagship - and pick a couple border schools - Bama, Auburn, Ole Miss, etc. and done. I think it was going to be this way from the day they were born - and I’m sure it’s no different than a kid in Kansas, Oregon, or Maryland, etc.
Just like many choose a public high school over a private high school, I’m sure most - regardless of wealth - consider a college education equal from no matter where - whether or not it’s at their state public, a regional public or a small LAC.
You just need the piece of paper…
We are definitely a small contingent on this website of the overall education universe.
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In my experience D17 and S23 looking for merit (especially D17 who was a stronger applicant for various reasons) they do not require ED/EA but many DO require that you meet the EA DEADLINE as an RD student for top merit. Purdue, Vanderbilt and UGA spring to mind, but there are many like that. A whole lot of top merit awards that are not automatic (and some that are) require an early deadline to apply but not an EA application status. Baylor was like that for S23 this year for I2E possibilities.
So parents/students/counselors really have to be aware that even RD applicants often have to meet EA/ED deadlines for many scholarships.
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Wake is like that. To have the best chance at merit, you have to apply by the ED deadline. You don’t have to apply ED.
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