Is enthusiastic coach call = "likely letter"?

Parent Cafe
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<p>Soccergirl:</p>

<p>My D is like your D. Not "le plus ultra" in either department but strong. (For the schools she's targeting, she's probably relatively a little stronger in her sport than in her academic profile, because she is hoping to get into a 'better' college via her sport.) </p>

<p>She is a solid D3 tennis player, and we figured this out via her current coaches' assessments, through watching where some of her HS colleagues have ended up, and through attending some D3 matches of schools that interested her to verify the level was what we had assumed. </p>

<p>A great many of the high-caliber LACs are D3 (Amherst, Williams, etc.) They offer great adademics and are a rung less intense than a D1 Ivy. My strong impression (and we are not through this journey yet) is that a kid with apx 50%-level stats and the ability to add to a D3 team will be viewed favorably by the coach. The higher the stats & sports ability, the better. A kid with 75%+ stats who can start or be a star on the team is very likely to be admitted. A kid with 25% stats who is a superstar might also have a decent chance. It is basically this fulcrum that is analyzed, plus other bonuses like geographic or racial diversity can also help.</p>

<p>Ivys & other highly selective schools are hard to predict, though, because they may get 10 high stat/ high ability kids applying, and only need 3 or 4 freshman for the given team. This means a "sure thing" might not be admitted that year.</p>

<p>What my D did was first, look for schools that she'd like to attend with or without tennis. She then narrowed down her list by looking for the teams where she thought she could really be an asset. You can find out how teams are ranked, nationally and regionally, on the internet. Obviously a lower-ranked team will see your D as a bigger asset than the top-tranked team would. Then she contacted coaches and saw with whom she clicked. There is one nationally ranked school that she is applying to simply because she really liked the school, but that coach has been less gung ho about her than others.</p>

<p>Tonight I am feeling a lot better for my D because her first acceptance (to an EA school) is now in hand!! It is a great top 50 LAC where she qualifies for merit aid (& where the coach flew out twice & saw her play.) The coach is really great and has been running the program for years. He is mellow, nice, warm; she loved him. If she ends up there she would be very happy, so a great deal of pressure is relieved! :)</p>

<p>This coach was very clear all along that she would be admitted. Her stats put her easily in the top 25% for the school, plus the coach said she would be one of the top 6 on the team (a starter). The school was basically a solid match verging on a "safety" so I never doubted the coach-- and sure enough, it came through.</p>

<p>We will see how the other apps work and know more about the veracity of the other coach assurances then. I will report back!</p>

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<p><a href="For%20the%20schools%20she's%20targeting,%20she's%20probably%20relatively%20a%20little%20stronger%20in%20her%20sport%20than%20in%20her%20academic%20profile,%20because%20she%20is%20hoping%20to%20get%20into%20a%20'better'%20college%20via%20her%20sport.">quote</a>

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<p>And again, this is exactly what I'm doing. I wish I had known earlier how much being successful in a sport can help, because I had two friends admitted early to UPenn, one with an 1160 on her SAT and one with a 1350 on his; my ex-girlfriend admitted to Georgetown with a 1220 on her SAT; my best friend admitted to Brown with a 1280 on his SAT; and another friend admitted to Duke with an 1180. If I had known this (1320 SAT / 3.9 GPA), I would have applied early to Harvard, which I would have loved to compete for.</p>

<p>Is this fair? I know the 1160 is ranked 14th nationally in her event, the 1350 finished 2nd in New Englands in the 800m last year, my ex is a two-time state champion, my best friend is one of the best football players in the state on a two-time state champion team, and the Duke quarterback is ranked among the top 25 recruits in the country.</p>

<p>It's all about playing the game.</p>

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<p>Ecliptica,</p>

<p>It sounds like your firends were athletic superstars. Superstars have more SAT latitude.</p>

<p>Have you investigated any LACs? Where are you hoping to be admitted? If you have a shot at D1 then many D3 teams would probably love to have you...</p>

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<p>Oh, I'm going DI, there was never a question in my mind whether to go DI or DIII. There's plenty of DIII schools that were interested (Johns Hopkins, Haverford, Muhlenberg, Williams) but I just always saw myself as a DI athlete; my grades are fine and my SAT score isn't half bad (though on here it seems like you need 1550+ to get any respect).
I've narrowed my choices down to Davidson, Georgetown, Wake Forest, and Tulane. I'm flying down to Davidson in mid-January to "fill out some paperwork" as the coach said, and I'm just hoping that this all works out simply because that's still my first choice, the athletic program is great, and the academics are among the best in the country.</p>

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<p>I am a German and came to Canada when I was in grade 11 last year. I am now a senior and looking for some good college teams. Next year will be a gap year for me, as I expect to be centralized with the German team back in GER, to prepare and play in the Olympics in Italy. I am really trying to get into an Ivy League school, but I don't know if the fact that I compete internationally will be a hook good enough to get me in. I am not one of those 1500 sat writers, but I expect to be within the range 1300-1400.
And what is the best way to contact coaches of schools that I am interested in? Do I just fill out the recruiting form and wait to hear from them or should I e-mail/call them directly?</p>

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<p>I know two soccer girls who were accepted at Ivy League schools. They both got the classic October Likely letter and they were both All-American, ie Mia Hamm quality. One was a National Merit Semi-finalist with a 4.0 GPA. </p>

<p>I also know another athlete who got a full five year scholarship to Stanford. She also got the October likely letter after she took the SATs and scored well within range. She is an internationally recognized athlete.</p>

<p>Anoterh soccer boy I know was heavily recruited by a D3 LAC coach. He fell in love with the school and applied ED and was deferred and finally rejected. He ended up at another LAC, though, started on the senior team and the team went to the finals. He's had the time of his life.</p>

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<p>Nisipi, I would test the waters by sending a letter to the coaches telling them what you have told us. You should then visit a few of the schools and talk to the coaches and see what they have to tell you and gauge their interest. It will depend on your sport and the importance it has to the college as to how interested the colleges are going to be in you. I know an Olympic (non US) swimmer who was accepted to Hopkins but not to any of the Ivies, and it was an academic concession to take her at Hopkins. I know a very fine soccer player who is now playing starter at a Big 10 school but she was rejected from the ivies despite an academic profile that would not have meant a big stretch to accept her. So you can see that it can vary widely. My son visited each of the coaches at the schools where he was interested and could pretty much tell who was being polite and who was interested. The follow up was also telling. He dropped several schools from his list that way and added schools that contacted him.</p>

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<p>If you are a junior and are interested in playing a Division 1 sport, your best bet is to start by writing a formal letter to the coach showing your interest. The sooner you get this all going the better. If you have an athletic resume include that in your envelope as well. If online there are prospective student athlete questionaires to fill out you should look into doing that as well. Once you make initial contact expressing your desire for more information and interest in the school you can regularily email them and written letters become moreso obsolete. Recruiting is a tricky and painstaking process, I know, I'm going through it now but if any of you have questions my mom is a top high school coach for womens lacrosse with a nationally ranked team, giving me a plethera of information on the subject of recruiting... Shout me a holla' - Beers</p>

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<p>I agree with the advice above. I think what is tricky is telling politeness from passion. It is hard to do until you <em>experience</em> a passionate response from a coach.</p>

<p>The key situation to find is (1) a school you love for itself-- even if you got injured and could not play your sport, (2) a coach who is passionate about you, (3) a program where you would be a distinct asset, (4) a school where your SATs and grades are above the "imaginary line" for a recruited athelete to be admitted-- the higher above, the better (top 25% stats is great), (5) a school in which the coach has the ability to "tip the scales" on a qualified applicant's behalf, and has said clearly what he/she will do for you. </p>

<p>My D wanted to continue to play her sport in college, but she also wanted to be a little strategic and use the sport to help her get in the best possible school-- the school itself was more important than the team, as she does not have post-college aspirations. She also wants to be an asset on a decent team rather than a bench-warmer on an elite team. </p>

<p>She found out the basic level of college play where she belonged by talking to local college coaches we know-- one of them played with her for two hours and essentially "placed" her by telling us a dozen or so Western US teams that she knew well where a player like my D would be a starter and a real asset. Comparing these teams with others in the country can be done by looking at national and regional rankings and who beats whom.</p>

<p>Teams at that basic level or below were athletic "matches/safetys" (and you will not be strongly recruited by a school that is an athletic reach!!) You need a final list with at least some schools that are BOTH and athletic match/safety and an academic match/safety. In individual-sport teams like track and swimming, look at the times the given team's members post and extrapolate from there. </p>

<p>Then, forgetting all about athletics and focusing on schools themselves, she got a list together of about 20 that seemed to offer the sort of academic and social environment she wanted. Then she contacted coaches on these teams. Some were enthusiastic, some were encouraging-- and NOBODY was less than encouraging. (HINT: this is a signal--!!!-- because in coach land there does not seem to be a "no, thanks" response very often; you REALLY have to read between the lines.) There are coaches that have already decided which applicants they plan to throw their weight behind, and they'll STILL encourage you to apply, say they'll support you-- because, hey, if you get in without their support they'd certainly be happy to have a deeper team! "Support" can be many levels, from "you are my top recruit, ranked #1 on my list, I will do this, this, and this for you" to "You are on my list!" </p>

<p>Big difference!!</p>

<p>We narrowed down the list, visited about 12 schools, and crossed a few of them off due to campus culture not being what she wanted. The rest became her list.</p>

<p>I want to emphasize that basic "encouragement/enthusiasm" is not to be counted on. As the process unfolds, coaches who are genuinely devoted to having you on their team will seperate themselves from the pack. These coaches will not come off as mysterious; they will be frank, direct, & factual about what they can and can't do.</p>

<p>She was rejected at an ED school where the coach support, I now recognize, was enthusiastic but not passionate (i.e. 'it'd be great to have you but if push comes to shove the apple of my eye is someone else.') The recruit who outranks you may be quite similar to you in ability but has an advantage of being better known to the coach-- from same region, whatever-- a known quantity. Particularly on D3 teams, many of the rosters are flush with players from the college's basic region, probably because the coaches don't have much budget for trips, etc, but they can follow these players more easily. </p>

<p>My D is waiting on an ED2 decision at a school that is an academic reach but an athletic match/safety with much more pointed coach support. Time will tell if she is admitted.She'd love to go to this school, and she is anxious--but having safetys in hand makes this wait a little easier.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Anoterh soccer boy I know was heavily recruited by a D3 LAC coach. He fell in love with the school and applied ED and was deferred and finally rejected. He ended up at another LAC, though, started on the senior team and the team went to the finals. He's had the time of his life.

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<p>I've come to find, through my friends and this forum, that DIII schools often have very little pull athletically in the admissions process; not to mention they can't give athletic money (though they can mask that behind "merit aid", my friend got some "merit aid" from Bates [almost full ride for track] this year and I guarantee if he wasn't as good as he is at track that would have never happened).</p>

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<p>The one thing I would add about the "timed" sports like track, cross country and swimming is that it is more useful to see the high school times of the recruits and not the times they are achieving in college. That will tell you what the coaches are looking for in recruits. For runners, you can search on the internet for regional and national meets in which the current college freshman participated as high school runners. Sometimes the college team rosters lists the runners' previous best times and high school running achievements. That is a good way to tell how important you would be to the team/coach. For example, Dartmouth has a really strong running program and manages to get Footlocker finalists (top national high school distance runners). A private school league champion wouldn't be that attractive to Dartmouth as a recruit.</p>

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<p>Double post, sorry guys.</p>

<p>
[quote]
My D wanted to continue to play her sport in college, but she also wanted to be a little strategic and use the sport to help her get in the best possible school-- the school itself was more important than the team, as she does not have post-college aspirations. She also wants to be an asset on a decent team rather than a bench-warmer on an elite team.

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<p>Your daughter sounds exactly like me. I already mentioned this in earlier posts.</p>

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Some were enthusiastic, some were encouraging-- and NOBODY was less than encouraging. (HINT: this is a signal--!!!-- because in coach land there does not seem to be a "no, thanks" response very often; you REALLY have to read between the lines.)

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<p>Eh, I dunno, my friend, who was originally going to apply to Davidson talked to the same coach I did and, although he's also one of the top runners in the league and has much, much higher grades than I (1520 SAT / 12th in class), the coach told him: "Sorry, there's no way I can see you running for us next year".</p>

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As the process unfolds, coaches who are genuinely devoted to having you on their team will seperate themselves from the pack. These coaches will not come off as mysterious; they will be frank, direct, & factual about what they can and can't do.

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<p>For example, the Davidson coach (my top choice) called me two nights ago to wish me happy holidays, gave me his cell phone number, and wanted to know when I could fly down to meet with him. He reaffirmed that I'm his top recruit. I assume this means good things.</p>

<p>Just adding insight from someone going through this process right now. I could tell right away who wanted me and who did not. Davidson has continued to be enthusiastic, calling once a week, and constant e-mails after every meet I run in. Wake Forest was still encouraging, but told me that I'm going to need to cut some time to make my athletic fit a match/safety (academically I'm a match). Georgetown, I met with the coach a few times and he was pretty encouraging, but more recently, as I've been talking to Davidson more and more, I've pretty much cut off the contact between the two of us. I'm banking on Davidson, and I'm hoping that everything the coach has been telling me is true.</p>

<p>EDIT: Karenindallas, I have some friends that do run distance for Dartmouth and all were definitely top calibur athletes in high school, but also were exceptional academically. My buddy Harry Norton, who was one of the top 5 1500m in the country last year was also top 20 in his class at Philips Exeter.</p>

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<p>Karenindallas, it is often more helpful to see the collegetimes, because then you can see what the team needs and what it has. Things change so much that it really is not helpful to see that the top swimmer/runner on the team had low times 3 years ago as a recruit than your students'. If you can see where your kid would fit on the team with the times he has now, that is a good measure of how the coach sees it except he has the times of the other recruits who are your kid's direct competition in this situation. My son was given the cold shoulder at a small LAC program where he would have been a standout. Puzzling until you checked the roster the following year and saw that the coach had two great freshmen for that position that were better than my son. They often will not share that info with you even if those kids had applied ED so they were pretty sure ins. You also don't know the academic needs of the team. There may well be some high stat kids needed that year to bring up the team averages--a directive straight from the top that the coach needs to follow if he is to keep his job. They do not share that info with you either. But in the sports you cite, Karen, you do have the advantage of seeing what the team exactly has in the way of stats as of NOW, and exactly where your athlete would fit in which is a bit more difficult in sports like soccer or football or basketball where you don't have such an objective measure.</p>

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<p>Using both karenindallas & jamimom's approaches is good. It would be unusual for a team to leap up many "levels" in a single year but sometimes programs do drift up or down.</p>

<p>Another factor in some sports-- how many of this years' starters are seniors & sophomores? Seniors obviously graduate, and many rising juniors wind up abroad for junior year... leaving big holes in some teams. This can work to a recruit's advantage. If on the other hand the team is loaded with strong freshmen it might be harder to be impressive.</p>

<p>Also: sometimes there is just a good personality match between a coach and a recruit and thus the sense they'll work well together. It is important that the coach knows you will fit with the style of coaching, etc.</p>

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<p>Thanks for your help, I just sent out some e-mails to the college coaches I am intersted in.</p>

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<p>Remember that you may need to get teacher recs, etc lined up now before you are out of the country, out of touch, etc. I would get the teachers to write them up and put them in your HS file this year if it was me. You could have them do a basic common app form downloaded from web and then they would have it to work off next year if the form was different. Also, noone else is bugging them for this in May!</p>

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<p>This is about D-3 Program</p>

<p>What advice would you give junior players who want to continue their playing careers in college?</p>

<p>A: First, I think that most junior tennis players do not understand how truly difficult it is to obtain an athletic scholarship. Every junior tennis player wants to either go pro or play Division I tennis, but most players don't realize how selective Division I coaches are, especially with the increasing number of scholarships going to foreign players. </p>

<p>USA Today recently reported that 63 of the top 100 singles players in the ITA (Intercollegiate Tennis Association) national rankings have hometowns outside of the United States. There are no restrictions on the number of scholarships a coach can give to foreign players.</p>

<p>I would strongly encourage junior players to attend an NCAA Division I or II match so that they could experience first-hand how deep each team is and the percentage of foreign-born players on each team. </p>

<p>I feel that our program provides very good players, who maybe just missed a scholarship, an excellent opportunity to continue their careers at the collegiate level. Nothing bothers me more than seeing a great Division III player waste the chance to receive a phenomenal college education because he or she is waiting for a Division I scholarship that may never pan out. </p>

<p>Q: What type of commitment is expected from Occidental student-athletes?</p>

<p>A: Our program follows the same rules as NCAA Division I institutions, which means we practice and play a maximum of twenty hours per week. In fact, we try to duplicate the intensity level of major college programs in our practice sessions. The difference is that we have a 100% graduation rate and the majority of our players go on to graduate school, not the ATP tour.</p>

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<p>I am a great proponent of D-3 sports programs. The problem with such programs is that they do not give athletic scholarships which are often an issue for students contemplating a private college. And most D-3 schools are very expensive. Now some of the school (my son's included) do give qualified athletes a leg up on some of the merit awards available. A number of the athletes did get merit scholarships there. Otherwise, you would be talking about a $50K tab each year especially if you include visits to watch your child compete, training trips, banquets, etc. In D-1 schools most of the sports related expenses are covered if scholarships are available for the sport. Not all D-1; my son's D-3 school provided more perks for the sport than a nearby D-1 school that just did not have that sport as a priority. </p>

<p>Families with athletes generally are looking for either money or a step up in the college selectivity. They will often forego the bucks if the athlete gets into a school that would have been out of range without the sport as a hook. Or they will go to Podunk U if they get a sweet financial package. The reason this is important is that athletes do not have as much time to work as their schedule automatically includes all of those practice and play hours. Also most families of a skilled athlete have dumped many dollars to bring the skill to that level, and they want some sort of a payoff if possible. </p>

<p>And many D-3 schools who have the top programs in a sport for that division are much more competitive and have better facilities than the D-1 schools that do not have the sport high in their priorities.</p>

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<p>There is a middle ground between Podunk & elite D-3; there are definitely schools that are excellent, top 100 LACs that give merit aid and have good teams as well.</p>

<p>One other really nice thing about D-3 is that you are considered a scholar first and athlete second; it is an appropriate order for those wanting to have fun & excel at their sport but who are really in college to get a great education. When my D asked D-3 coaches about things like combining her sport with other ECs they were very encouraging; they also said if something like a lab or section conflicts with practice they can be flexible, arranging an alternate practice time-- school definitely comes first.</p>

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<p>I'm not sure if anyone can really help me here, but I'd appreciate any advice you want to send my way. I am a high school junior. I go to a very small rural high school that doesn't offer the sport I play, also there are no club team around because the area is so rural. I practice on my own and enter a few competitions a year on my own. I've done pretty well at these competitions -- not a superstar, but more than respectable. </p>

<p>I haven't initiated any contact with colleges, which frankly it never occurred to me. Over the last few weeks colleges have started to send me what I guess could be called recruiting letters. They are probably just the standard issue saying that they've noticed my progress, congratulations on how I'm doing and that they are interested in me. At first it was just big state schools, but now its the Ivys as well. </p>

<p>I'm not sure what to do. I don't have a coach to help. My parents don't know a thing about college recruiting, they just say that's nice. I don't know how to play my cards, I don't even know if I have any cards to play. Should I respond to these letters? how is it best to respond? should I visit these schools? how can I compete against kids who are on teams and get to compete all the time versus my couple of times a year? A few of the letters have said that in the fall they would like me to come for an official visit. I'm almost afraid that if they see me compete they will lose interest since there is no way that I am as good as the other kids I see at events who beat me. I'm not being modest here, although I do better than some of the other kids, I always get beaten by a good margin.</p>

<p>I'd greatly appreciate any thoughts and wisdom if you know anything about this process. Thanks.</p>