<p>A lot of people think that the complaints of Princeton's students are deterring high school students from applying and from accepting offers if they get in. </p>
<p>Comments on different articles from the Princetonian website show that the students are not fond of Tilghman, Malkiel, and Rapeleye who they blame for most of the present problems. (trying to curb partying, hating on eating clubs, grade deflation, etc.) </p>
<p>I think the students feel that grade deflation is having the greatest impact on prospective students. They think that people are really catching on to the grade deflation policy, and some Princeton students say that it hurts their futures since grad schools don't care how the school grades; they just care about the grades themselves.</p>
<p>Most of all, some (a lot of?) current Princeton students think that Princeton is falling behind other top schools. </p>
<p>Are these students exaggerating, or are people outside of the university exaggerating their complaints? What do you guys (especially those of you who attend/are very familiar with the school) think of all this?</p>
<p>Yes I would like to know that too. Pton used to be my num 1 choice but after hearing all of these compliants idk anymore. And ifeel that when you adress these topics to students they try to avoid it which only means that it must be true</p>
<p>^ I’m actually not trying to cause an argument… And if you read comment #2 you’ll realize that I’m not the only one wondering. </p>
<p>I don’t think these are weird questions either. If you read recent articles/op-eds from the university, it will become clear to you that these are pertinent issues.</p>
<p>I have definitely been deterred by many complaints about Princeton, most notably the elitist nature of the eating clubs and the significant grade deflation. It’s not ■■■■■■■■, it a valid question. Just another thing to add, I think that the abysmal acceptance rate is turning people away as well, at least me. It’s starting to become counterproductive, since many people are starting to give up on the Ivies for other top-tier schools.</p>
<ul>
<li>grade deflation</li>
<li>making people explain what they did over the past 2 summers</li>
<li>the thesis</li>
<li>suburban new jersey location</li>
</ul>
<p>Princeton is becoming a lot less desirable than H and Y. I doubt I’ll even apply to Princeton.</p>
<p>Well, actually it is the thesis and suburban new jersey location that make me WANT to apply to Princeton. Come on, Princeton is in a clean, safe, and gorgeous environment. I mean if you like the borderline dangerous area in New Haven that Yale is in, by all means go there. Additionally, the fact that students have to do the thesis means that most the undergrads will do research while at Pton. </p>
<p>Grad deflation has worried me a little about Pton. However, isnt their med school acceptance rate still in the 90 percentile. Apparently, Princeton students arent really affected by this grade deflation.</p>
<p>Lastly, it is really the most undergrad focused ivy except maybe dartmouth- dartmouth is my 2nd or 3rd favorite college btw = D. So, you will not be overshadowed by these grad school machines that make Harvard and Yale so prestigious.</p>
<p>Moral of the story. Princeton might not be for everyone, but it is DEFINATELY a school I want to attend!</p>
<p>The Princeton-admits whose stories I knew of in the H.S. Class of '09:</p>
<p>1) Chose P over Yale. Found wealthy, suburban, rural town environment more to his liking than gritty, urban, not-so-white New Haven. Liked idea of eating clubs.</p>
<p>2) Chose Yale over P. Found Y more exciting, friendly, wide-awake.</p>
<p>3) Chose Harvard over Y & P. Was interested in bio research, med school, and prestige.</p>
<p>4) Chose Duke (special scholar program) over P. Full ride +++ at Duke vs. pretty good f.a. (but not covering every last dime) at P.</p>
<p>5) Chose Yale over P. Intended major: composition.</p>
<p>6) Chose P (I don’t know where else he got in). Intended major: composition.</p>
<p>7) Chose Yale over P. Richness of music performance opportunities, house system, vibrancy of student-led e.c. orgs. Preferred urban to rural. Feared being made to feel unpopular by eating-club acceptance process.</p>
<p>7 real kids, 7 real stories, no two of them alike.</p>
<p>@ChoklitRain - The essay concerning your past two summers is actually a good way to better convey yourself to the admissions officers. It’s not a hard essay at all, really. Also, the thesis is a very good idea because it develops each student’s research skills and allows them to become even more knowledgeable about their concentration. </p>
<p>Personally, I liked the suburban New Jersey location. It really gave me the feel of a great college town. Plus, it’s safe and the campus is great. But some don’t like such a setting, which is their own preference.</p>
<p>The grade deflation and senior thesis are actually positive things. Yes, you end up with a lower grade than what your true average was, but the purpose of grade deflation is to encourage students to work even harder. The students that get the A are the ones that truly deserve it, unlike Harvard where grade inflation allows students who may not have deserved the A to get one.</p>
<p>As for the thesis, whereas most students may not begin original research or get their work published until they are in graduate school, Princeton allows you to start work in your field in your senior year. I may only be an incoming freshman, but this sounds like a great experience working closely with professors and conducting my own research. </p>
<p>And of course the administration is going to try to curb partying and remain unaffiliated with the eating clubs. The school would lose credibility if it didn’t.</p>
<p>“However, isnt their med school acceptance rate still in the 90 percentile. Apparently, Princeton students arent really affected by this grade deflation.”</p>
<p>“The grade deflation and senior thesis are actually positive things. Yes, you end up with a lower grade than what your true average was, but the purpose of grade deflation is to encourage students to work even harder. The students that get the A are the ones that truly deserve it, unlike Harvard where grade inflation allows students who may not have deserved the A to get one.”</p>
<p>So you’re saying that students at Harvard aren’t working sufficiently hard? My personal belief is that everyone who works hard enough to get an A should end up with an A, regardless of how the other people have done. Otherwise you spawn competitition and a cutthroat environment, at least to some extent.</p>
<p>“And of course the administration is going to try to…remain unaffiliated with the eating clubs”</p>
<p>This is a far step from actually doing anything. Personally, I think that getting rid of the eaing clubs (or at least trying to reform them) would be a step in the right direction.</p>
<p>I don’t think it is really that large of a “logical leap” as I don’t believe that Princeton takes part in those “Johns Hopkin-type” screening processes that drastically inflates their numbers. I might be wrong there, but I have never heard that they do this. Additionally, a 93% (its around there) med school acceptance rate, while not a the perfect measure of success at a given school, is still an outstanding number that in part has to demonstrate that Princeton is a decent school for premed. However, Princeton is a grade deflated school relative to its peers (Harvard and Yale). I mean while half the kids in a class at Harvard might get an A, only 30 percent of the kids at Princeton will as well. Thus, one could conclude that Princeton kids do well in the med school admissions process despite slight grade deflation. Where am I going wrong?</p>
<p>Rtgrove 123, you’re overlooking the possibility that many students are dropping the pre-med track because of the grade-deflation, and therefore the 93% only includes those who have ultimately ended up applying to med school, probably those who have managed to earn the A’s.</p>
<p>True, that is definately a factor as well. However, it is Princeton where the caliber of student is high, so I don’t think that drop out rate there is anywhere near as high as say my local state school. Still, it would be hard to debate this without numbers, which none of us have.</p>
<p>My quote from your post, Rtgrove, means absolutely that grade deflation doesn’t affect graduate school admissions for Princeton students. Because of the demonstrated ignorance of the deflation policy at graduate schools’ admissions offices, this is implausible.</p>
<p>Harvard may be grade inflated, but that does not mean that it is easy to get an A. Rather, it is very difficult to receive an A but difficult to receive a grade lower than a B range. For example, in a humanities class of 12, there may be 2 or 3 As in the entire class.</p>
<p>When there have only been 7 4.0s in the university’s 373 year history, I think it’s clear that getting an A at Harvard is not a cake-walk.</p>
<p>I’ve also heard that the grade deflation policy (only 35% of the students in any class can get A’s) isn’t strictly enforced. Does that mean a teacher may occasionally give an extra A, or that teachers just give out grades based on what they think students deserve, merely keeping the policy in mind so that they don’t go overboard.</p>
<p>Another Princetonian article reports that P hoped that other schools (H and Y) would follow suit, and institute their own grade deflation policies. Does anyone see this happening? </p>
<p>And what else do Tilghman, Malkiel, and Rapeleye do that makes people so angry?</p>