<p>I live in New Zealand and I am 15.
Since last year, I had this desire to attend Harvard or any Ivy league universities.....</p>
<p>A high school i attend is a catholic school with not a bad reputation for academic achievements, and there are 6 stream classes in each year.
I am not even in the first stream(i am in the second) and i am not even the very top student in my class(about top5 out of 25) </p>
<p>I think that I won't make it to Ivy league universities with this record...
however i want to hear what you think.... Do you hav to be a super genius that comes the first in the whole year?</p>
<p>And as I am Korean, and came to New Zealand when I was 12,(been here roughly 4 years) and I find my English not as fluent(i mean in reading and possbily writing) as top students here. I will be going to University in 3 years,
(which by then, i will be living in English speaking country for totally of 7 years) do you think Ivy league universities would expect my English to be as good as natives here?</p>
<p>Please someone with a lot of experiences answer my 2 questions because these are the questions I reallly wanted to know.....</p>
<p>if you don't do something that distinguishes yourself from other applicants, it will almost be impossible to get in. harvard isn't just about grades, it is also about service, passion, etc.</p>
<p>i kno that.... but i am just talking about grades......(Just suppose i am doing good to distinguish myself from other applicants) What about grades??</p>
<p>you are competing against valedictorians, salutatorians, and other top students. suffice it to say you obviously need good grades, but so what if you get all A's, you need other stuff to set you apart form the pack. ex. ground-breaking community service projects, writer who has her work published, etc.</p>
<p>"would expect my English to be as good as natives here?"</p>
<p>no, every personal circumstance is different, harvard's not going to compare you to some else with similar years of language. however, you should score high on the toefl</p>
<p>thanks jessy09 man
Would it be possible for you to state more specific grade i must get tho?
Like, the top student in the whole school or something like that?</p>
<p>mingun119, honestly, and strictly speaking, I do not believe Harvard, or any Ivy league schools will view your disadvantage to a very large degree. There are truly many who distinguish themselves within their class, having come from other countries only recently. Our valedictorian immigrated to the U.S. in ninth grade. My friend is a salutatorian at another school, and she has been in the U.S. for only three years. I, as well, moved eighteen times in total, and have come to the U.S. three years ago from Korea--and I am in top 1% of >500. I don't want to come off as arrogant, but I am just informing you of the levels many people achieve, given similar circumstances as you. </p>
<p>I am assuming you are in ninth grade--remember that you still have enough time to distinguish yourself from others. But remember the most important part: try for the sake of learning, not for Harvard. And try your best, and you will succeed.</p>
<p>Jessy09, I disagree with you partially regarding your assertion about distinguishing oneself in the admissions process. Yes it is improtant but not all applicants must have done ground-breaking community service work or published their writing(s) (if any). If you're familiar with the Harvard admissions ranking system, (a scale fro 1- 6, 1 being high and 6 being low); Harvard's extracurricular/personal ranking of 1 is reserved for candidates with the qualities you've specified. Suffice it to say that not all applicants that get in are ec/personal 1s. Most applicants that get in are 2s and 3s with slightly less impressive accomplishments than competing in the Olympics, patenting a product, publishing a work of literature (all aspects of a 1 rating). I think your description serves more to discourage or frighten minigun119 than to encourage him/her. You are practically telling him/her that if s/he hasn't accomplished the great things that are assigned a number 1 rating, that aside from grades, s/he doesn't have a shot. This is far from true and minugun119, I hope you realize this!
Minigun119, I believe that if you are a driven and passionate student, and that if your grades are better than average, and you do distinguish yourself in the applicant pool, then you stand a decent chance. As far as English is concerned, a high score on the TOEFL would be beneficial... lack of fluency is ok: there are American applicants with TERRIBLE English (and they speak it fluently). These people are assigned to remedial classes in grammar and general English. You may want to take some courses in English if it'll make you feel more confident, but I'm sure it will not bar you from being admitted. If there are many positive factors, it won't be used against you.
Don't worry, just follow everyone else's advice: keep working hard. Just don't focus too much on academics. You want to come across as more than one-dimensional. If there's an area you truly have a passion for (acting, music, science, research, languages) then try to highlight it. Emphasize your accomplishments in your strongest areas and use your weaknesses as "character building" tools (i.e. overcoming hardships, learning life lessons, etc.). Whatever you do, try NOT to be clich</p>
<p>I do not think colleges will consider TOEFL for someone who has been speaking English for seven years. Seven years is quite a long time--almost half of his life by the graduation.</p>
<p>look at fellow CC posters who post their stats and are applying to harvard and other other top schools. their stats are more or less amazing. then understand these are the people competing against you if you were a senior today.</p>
<p>If s/he doesn't feel confident with his/her English skills (as they may come across in an interview or in his/her essays), then to have a high TOEFL score may dispel any lingering qualms about choosing him/her (if the language issue is remotely a factor... or anything that bothers the adcoms even slightly). So, it can't hurt to take the TOEFL if s/he wants to show his/her fluency.
Nowhere that I've read does it say that people with a certain number of years of English are excluded from taking it. Obviously an American native-speaker of English (or someone with fluency from England or another English-speaking nation) wouldn't need to take it. It is mostly geared for international students at large and minority students in the U.S. whose FIRST LANGUAGE is not English. Minigun119 has every right to take the TOEFL provided that his/her background doesn't make him ineligible (for other than number of years speaking the language).
I advise you to take it as Jessy09 has suggested. If you do decide to take the TOEFL minugun119, good luck to you!
Happy Thanksgiving everyone!!</p>
<p>I truly thanks to everyone who suggested some good points....
About my fluency in my English, i can tell you that i don't hav a quality of a lot of Asian students have, that is being genius or extremely smart in math or science.... However, I am one of those guys who are just outstanding(it's not to show off) in Social studies(like history and geography) It is for sure that i won't study further more of math or science after the graduation of high school, and i am a bit worried that
if I want to study subject related to Social Studies in University, then they might expect a English that is levelled at least as high as the native speakers. Do you think that is how things work?</p>
<p>btw, My forte is Video Editing(which i got into recently) and I am considered "great" by many people. I am in the school editing team and there is no doubt from anyone that i am the number 1 editor. Would this be considered distinguishing myself from "other applicant"?</p>
<p>I am not quite sure this will count or not but I've won a Korean chess competition(a big one) and won the Korean money value of four hundred dollars when i was about 10 (in that competition, people aged from 10 to 16 could enter) Would this be counted?</p>
<p>i personally think that its lame that you can get rejected from a college because you dont speak english very well. english is just one language among many, its not as important as us native english speakers like to think it is. i hope they dont reject you just because of your language. and hey if you dont get into harvard, there are plenty of other super awesome schools out there.</p>
<p>I know.... shark_bite.. it's not only Harvard but I just want to get into any ivy league universities.... I know that they are awesome and how hard I have to work to achieve it</p>
<p>don't think about it much anymore. at the end of the day, CC posters don't decide whether you get in or not, the admissions people do. just concentrate on doing well</p>
<p>English is not important as we think? English is more important than we think. Its the #1 language for commerce/politics. Everyone should know English. It is also the language of our country, the country with the largest economy/military, etc etc in the world. Basically, its the language of the empire. Spanish follow shortly as #2 and then French. Those three languages are the ones we all need to know. Then maybe Chinese or Japanese. Therefore, English does matter.</p>