Is it Racist feel turned off by a school because it has too many Asians?

Parent Cafe
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<p>If you’re talking about me, my post was not addressed to you personally. It was, however, addressed to anyone who feels threatened by those who dare to want to move beyond their local experiences and instead embrace the wider world of many states, many countries, within at least equal if not greater diversity. That’s fine that you call that “racism.” Most other people would probably call that openness. I haven’t read the thread that the OP referenced, so I don’t know whether the student being discussed is or is not from CA, but I will repeat: lots of California students, already surrounded abundantly by Asians, and already having many, many friends who are Asians, choose to widen their horizons. Shame on them. :rolleyes:</p>

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<p>Making assumptions about individuals you do not know, because of what you assume is or is not a mindset, is what judgmentalism is all about.</p>

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<p>Not a racist at all.</p>

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<p>Yes, with different upbringing, people prefer certain things over others. A great country like this affords the opportunity to choose, for whatever reasons.</p>

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<p>I think this is a California situation, TatinG. In no other state will you see the number of Asians dominating the number of whites on a college campus. In fact, it might even be limited to the UCs. I’m sure other Cal schools have significant numbers of Asians but you don’t see them in or approaching the majority at the expensive private schools like the Claremont colleges or Stanford. I wonder why? </p>

<p>With only the two exceptions in your chart, it seems to be strictly a UC phenomenon. I will say this too: I suspect the Ivies make sure that it doesn’t happen on their campuses. Some of the Ivies have an ugly history of slapping a quota on the number of Jews allowed in each freshman class. Jews are the one white ethnic group that scores as high or higher than Asians on the standardized tests. There is ugly history about fear that elite campuses would be “overrun” with Jews. That’s changed. Now there may be fear by administrators (except for state schools in California) of campuses being overrun by Asians. Of course this has nothing to do with an individual applicant crossing a school off their list because there are too many Asians, but it is interesting.</p>

<p>Here’s some interesting info:</p>

<p>2/8/10 Boston Globe: “Do colleges redline Asian-Americans?”
by Kara Miller
SAT Scores aren’t everything. But they can tell some fascinating stories.
Take 1,623, for instance. That’s the average score of Asian-Americans, a group that Daniel Golden - editor at large of Bloomberg News and author of “The Price of Admission’’ - has labeled “The New Jews.’’ After all, much like Jews a century ago, Asian-Americans tend to earn good grades and high scores. And now they too face serious discrimination in the college admissions process.
Notably, 1,623 - out of a possible 2,400 - not only separates Asians from other minorities (Hispanics and blacks average 1,364 and 1,276 on the SAT, respectively). The score also puts them ahead of Caucasians, who average 1,581. And the consequences of this are stark.
Princeton sociologist Thomas Espenshade, who reviewed data from 10 elite colleges, writes in “No Longer Separate, Not Yet Equal’’ that Asian applicants typically need an extra 140 points to compete with white students. In fact, according to Princeton lecturer Russell Nieli, there may be an “Asian ceiling’’ at Princeton, a number above which the admissions office refuses to venture.
Emily Aronson, a Princeton spokeswoman, insists “the university does not admit students in categories. In the admission process, no particular factor is assigned a fixed weight and there is no formula for weighing the various aspects of the application.’’
A few years ago, however, when I worked as a reader for Yale’s Office of Undergraduate Admissions, it became immediately clear to me that Asians - who constitute 5 percent of the US population - faced an uphill slog. They tended to get excellent scores, take advantage of AP offerings, and shine in extracurricular activities. Frequently, they also had hard-knock stories: families that had immigrated to America under difficult circumstances, parents working as kitchen assistants and store clerks, and households in which no English was spoken.
But would Yale be willing to make 50 percent of its freshman class Asian? Probably not.</p>

<p>More:</p>

<p>[Matthew</a> Yglesias Discrimination Against Asian Americans in College Admissions](<a href=“http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2009/05/discrimination-against-asian-americans-in-college-admissions.php]Matthew”>http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2009/05/discrimination-against-asian-americans-in-college-admissions.php)</p>

<p>[The</a> Brown Daily Herald - Jared Lafer '11: A history of discrimination against Jews](<a href=“http://www.browndailyherald.com/jared-lafer-11-a-history-of-discrimination-against-jews-1.2044356]The”>http://www.browndailyherald.com/jared-lafer-11-a-history-of-discrimination-against-jews-1.2044356)</p>

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<p>as to tatin’s quote that “california students are used to this. this is their normal.” not really. i think that many california students are a little uncomfortable with the majority asian UC population–including some asians. is it all racism? i don’t think so. it’s a very complicated, touchy subject here. yes, the UCs are supposed to select the top 10-12% of high school seniors from california schools–that will of course include a lot of asian kids. HOWEVER (and this is where it gets very complicated), the UC system has changed so much since the passage of prop. 209 which ended affirmative action in college admissions (and prop. 13–or was it prop. 9?-- before that which capped property taxes to fund schools) that we now have somewhat of a caste system in california higher ed. where the UCs (being the top publics) are majority white and asian, with VERY FEW blacks and latinos (whose numbers hover around 2-3% on most campuses; the only group with lower numbers are native americans), and CSUs/community colleges are where you’ll find much higher numbers of blacks and latinos. clearly, there is a problem with this picture.</p>

<p>also, why is there an assumption that the UCs ‘should’ be majority white, when white people are no longer the majority in california? </p>

<p>what’ll be interesting to see unfold is how the campuses look in 2012 or 2013 once the UC system gets rid of the SAT subject test requirement for admissions. many asians feel that eliminating the sat-IIs is a way to purge their presence from the campuses (since they tend to score the highest on those tests)…other people feel that it’s a way to get the most selective campuses to closer reflect the actual demographics of the state.</p>

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<p>also wanted to add that i don’t think that bringing HBCUs into this discussion is very helpful. HBCUs are an entirely different issue. it’s silly to try to compare the two.</p>

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<p>Wow. I didn’t know that was happening. My kids skipped the SAT IIs anyway, and it didn’t hurt them. They simply avoided applying to schools that required SAT IIs.</p>

<p>I don’t know why some schools require them and but many do not. Why does Haverford require them but Swarthmore doesn’t? Amherst doesn’t, nor do a lot of other top schools. Penn does but Brown doesn’t. Some colleges at Cornell do but other colleges at Cornell do not. It makes no sense. Get rid of them because they are unnecessary and inconsistently required, not because of which group scores highest on them.</p>

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<p>Yes. Which is why many students do not feel that UC represents the ultimate in undergraduate college diversity – not by a long shot, not compared to many other colleges, especially many privates. </p>

<p>Incidentally, I’m on record long ago on CC as being one of the first to oppose the changed SAT Subject requirement. No matter how that might affect diversity (positively), I’m against its elimination.</p>

<p>Edited to add: I’m against their elimination because of the fairly extreme variability in public school quality/results in a hugely populated state. I don’t think that equates to whatever some privates do, such as Swat or Haverford. Privates have many more ways to judge quality (i.e., content of core courses), including letters of rec, which UC does not allow.</p>

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<p>Since Prop 209 (?) the UC system is barred from discriminating based on race. Yes, they are trying to get around it with the essays and now dropping the SAT II requirement but by and large, it’s GPA and SAT/AP scores. </p>

<p>Other than Hawaii, California probably has a higher percentage of Asian students than any other state, but they are over-represented percentage-wise at the UCs. </p>

<p>Stanford is different because it draws students from across the country. The UCs give preference to in-state students. </p>

<p>And yes, when Jews had a quota that was wrong. If there is an Asian quota, that is just as wrong. </p>

<p>The same thing is happening with men and women. There are now more women being admitted to college than men. </p>

<p>Would a man say “Whoa, I’m not going here…too many women” (ha!)</p>

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<p>Calimami: I disagree. The most selective campuses should be the most selective, regardless. </p>

<p>Berkeley is 53.2% women. Does that reflect the state’s demographics?</p>

<p>Davis is 56.% women. UCLA is 55.4% women. UC San Diego is 52.1% women. </p>

<p>The state universities should be blind to race and gender and admit the kids who have shown by their previous performance that they will do well.</p>

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<p>Essays are not a new requirement. And it’s Prop 209 minus a question mark. As for colleges, Princeton admitted 50% men, 50% women this year. I haven’t looked at all the other privates.</p>

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<p>Could it be that the person whom the OP references does not want to attend a university with “too many Asians” because the Asians are the ones who are prejudiced or racist? Sorry, but I’m a little tired of the fact that only white people ever get accused of being racist. Two Chinese friends of mine have admitted to me that in Chinese culture as they’ve experienced it, even the worst Chinese individual is seen as superior to a non-Chinese person. My son has dated a Chinese girl for many years. Whose parents do you think objected to their relationship? Hers. In fact, I was interrogated about my son’s SAT scores, high school course load, and college plans and was told that they did not want my son to interfere with their D’s academic success. And speaking of that, in my experience first generation Asian and Indian parents discourage their children from forming friendships with American kids, because American kids are academically lazy, not to mention immoral and they are seen as a corrupting influence. My D has had several friends admit that their parents don’t want them to spend too much time with whites. An Indian neighbor of mine told me that I was the only American she would trust to babysit her children. So, self-segregation is indeed a huge issue in my book and thus if a white student does not want to be subjected to prejudice from an Asian majority, that does not make him a racist. </p>

<p>PS. During the last two Olympic Games, the Asian-American students at our high school (including S’s girlfriend) rooted for the athletes from Asia to win–not for the US athletes. Clearly, they do not identify with the USA as much as they do with their parents’ homeland. This, to me, is evidence of a cultural separation which a student may wish to avoid.</p>

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<p>I don’t think anyone should object to including within college options, a system which is mostly stat-merit-based. Nevertheless, since we have seen that in CA that produces an experience for an undergrad that is hugely limited geographically, largely limited economically, and by default also limited in proportions of racial/ethnic groups represented, no one should also object to CA students wanting to go beyond that world and to experience a wider exposure as an undergrad. I have yet to see a supportable argument against that.</p>

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<p>@TheGFG, the extremely small portion of asians that you know are not an accurate representation of every single asian person in the world. Especially since the generalizations you make are stereotypes perpetuated by people like you who are not asian.</p>

<p>i agree with what stacy said

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<p>We cannot speculate the reason why the the person stated he doesn’t want a school with too many asians, so there is no use making false assumptions like " because the Asians are the ones who are prejudiced or racist [against the OP’s referred person]</p>

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<p>epiphany: i’m glad that the sat-IIs are being eliminated because i’m not convinced that they determine college performance, even given the variability of high schools…</p>

<p>plainsman: yeah, i think the subject tests will be eliminated in 2011. my son’s graduating class (this year) was really upset that they didn’t make the cutoff. lol</p>

<p>tatin: yes, the UCs should take the brightest students. but i think that they can probably manage to do that while ensuring that there is no racial majority on campus–or at least not a glaring majority (or majorities in this case). california is diverse enough to make that happen.</p>

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<p>**side note: how do u guys make the quote box???</p>

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<p>^ Glaring majorities? Most schools in the US are a glaring majority of white students as in 80% homogeneous. Do you mean a minority shouldn’t become a majority??</p>

<p>Quote Box:

[quote]
your words[backslashquote]
Put a backslash before the last quotes</p>

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<p>to the op</p>

<p>it depends on the number, IMO. If group X is 90% of the school, well there could be some concern about the comfort level for someone who is not in group X (and thats true even if group X is internally diverse). Thats true whether group X is asians, whites, jews, gentiles (yeah, I know its a widespread problem) males, females, whatever. Some of us can’t avoid the problem (for us, the shortage of colleges with fewer than 90% gentiles) others can. </p>

<p>If group X is 50% of the school, and you write it off for that reason, I would suggest serious self examination is needed. A fortiori if group X is internally diverse. </p>

<p>Are there really many colleges where asians are more than 90% of the student body? At least ones that get discussed here?</p>

<p>FYI, my DD is white and Jewish, and attended a HS that was over 35% asian, about 5% other minority, about 10% or so Jewish. The asians include koreans, chinese, indochinese, Indians. “wasians” and a few others. She has made many friends with asian kids, has learned much from them. Its been a very positive experience all around.</p>

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<p>Collegestress: did you read my post? These are Asian people admitting to the prejudices of their own ethnic group, particularly the viewpoint of their parents’ generation. So, no, it is not just white people inventing these stereotypes. They’re real, and the younger generation is struggling to come to terms with fitting into a culture their parents don’t respect.</p>

<p>And of course not every Asian person thinks this way, but people tend to make decisions informed by their own experiences with people. My experience has been that Asians are no less prejudiced against whites than whites are against them.</p>

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<p>BrooklynDad, would you have the same attitude for your D if the college was 50% black, or only if it’s 50% Asian? Let’s be honest, there does seem to be a double standard. 50% Asian is okay, 50% black is not okay. I’d call that racist regardless of the color of the person making the distinction.</p>

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<p>^ You are completely right, Cal is only 40% asians, 35% whites which I don’t see as a clear majority considering the fact that Asia as a continent is very diverse from Thai to Pakistani to North Korea</p>