<p>By the same token, you can’t then assume that the reason some one doesn’t want to go to a campus that is “too Asian” is because of racism. </p>
<p>fogfog has a point. In ccland you can dismiss a school for all kinds of reasons, including too conservative, too Greek, lack of diversity, too religious, too jocky, too Southern, “middle of nowhere”, “too preppy/ popped collars”, you may even find some sympathy for “didn’t like the tour guide’s shoes”, but you (or the 17 year old kid) will be labeled as a bigot, homophobe, racist if your objection isn’t pc. When often the reason for the objection is merely silly, irrational or spontaneous without any kind of hateful undercurrent at all.</p>
<p>Yes, Asians can be very racist, but I have observed that Asian kids growing up in a largely white community are not necessarily self-segregating but being pushed out of all white groups/cliques. If they migrate to their own kind it has as much to do with whites rejecting them as anything.</p>
<p>Love the statement that Asians are the new Jew.</p>
<p>I have little stock in this thread, but I think this is a ridiculous way to judge people. I am not particularly patriotic, does that mean I have a cultural separation with America? I usually root for Ethiopia, Jamaica, or Ghana - that doesn’t mean I identify more with Ethiopia, it just means I like to see them win. I rooted for the South Korean female ice skater this year, that doesn’t mean I identified more with her than I did with the American athletes. I understand (and perhaps agree) with your sentiment, but I think considering who someone roots for during the Olympics is absolutely one of the worst ways to judge a person’s character.</p>
<p>"BrooklynDad, would you have the same attitude for your D if the college was 50% black, or only if it’s 50% Asian? Let’s be honest, there does seem to be a double standard. 50% Asian is okay, 50% black is not okay. I’d call that racist regardless of the color of the person making the distinction. "</p>
<p>I used an algebraic expression deliberately. And note, I said write off. In the case of a 50% asian school or a 50% black school, I would still consider it reasonable to look at the actual impact on college life, whether from self-segregation or whatever. </p>
<p>We live in the DC area, and DD asked me why more whites don’t apply to Howard. I suggested it was simply more appealing to black kids, it just doesn’t have the same comparative advantage for white kids. DD never wanted to go so close to home, so it simply didn’t come up. No other schools we looked at were close to that percentage of african americans. </p>
<p>Of course there is another question raised by your question. The implications of group membership for academics. One assumption, for example, is that a school with lots of asians is heavily STEM oriented, and leans away from “party school” That is a stereotype and certainly is not universally true. But I am not sure there is no correlation. </p>
<p>There are many very well qualified african american students. IIUC they are still highly sought after by majority white institutions. I know there are some strong historically black colleges, but I wonder how many strong institutions there are that are about 50% black?</p>
<p>I guess another impression some of us have (maybe more on the east coast than the west coast?) is that asian-americans in general are more assimilated/integrated with whites than blacks are. Probably a result of historic patterns of discrimination by whites, but still.</p>
<p>applicannot, I think you might be misreading what the poster was communicating, and the poster was misreading what rooting for meant. </p>
<p>I don’t think it is racist for an Asian American person watching the Olympics to root for the Asian athletes. That the athletes represent other countries is simply a product of the lack of Asian American athletes. Think about it. How many Asian athletes do you see on USA Olympic teeams? People naturally feel pride in seeing someone who looks like them excel. Yes, it’s tribal, but in a world in which groups are judged, however unfair that might be, that’s what you get. </p>
<p>Black and white Americans see plenty of athletes in the Olympics who look like them. Heck, in the Winter Olympics, 98% of the American athletes are white. In the Summer Olympics there are a significant number of black American athletes. But winter or summer, how many Asians do you see wearing American colors? From zero to none, I’d say, unless you want to count a couple of girls in figure skating. I know a lot of white Americans who no longer watch pro basketball because there are so few white American players. Most of the white NBA stars are foreigners, from Steve Nash (Canada) to Dirk Nowitski (Germany) to Manu Ginobelli (Argentina), and on and on. The majority are not Americans. </p>
<p>In the words of former Cleveland Cavaliers owner Ted Stepien: “White people want to see white people.” Why should Asians be given any less consideration to wanting to see other Asians do well in the sporting arena? And if there are no Asians on American teams, they’ll root for Asians on other teams. I don’t see anything really wrong with that. If white people and people of other races do in fact prefer to marry someone like themselves, what’s wrong with desiring to see people like themselves excel at the Olympics? It’s the product of living in a tribal world.</p>
<p>I think people feel comfortable with whatever ethnic distribution they perceive as balanced given the particular environment, or whatever percentages are closest to being representative of the general population, or at least the general population where they live. For example, if in a certain town the general population consists of 35% Asians, but it turns out that one particular grammar school in the town has a student population that is 65% Asian, then a non-Asian might wonder how comfortable they’d be there. (This scenario is actually playing out where I live.) They could end up being perfectly comfortable, but it’s not a distribution to which they have already acclimated so there’s an uncertainty.</p>
<p>plainsman: what you say about the Olympics makes perfect sense; you are probably on target. However, I’d argue that even if cheering for someone who looks like them is the motivation, Americans might feel rather unhappy about this allegiance if the situation relates to an American TEAM playing against an Asian team, such as in soccer or ice hockey.</p>
<p>Being Asian myself, I’m really sorry that this is the only kind of Asian parents that you’ve had the fortune to meet. On the other hand, don’t you think it’s unfair to make sweeping judgements about an entire race based on such as a small sample size?</p>
<p>I don’t think it’s racist when you prefer to live, play, and dine with some ethnic group.
But it’s racist when you try to make other ethnic groups look bad or take away the opportunies and the rights that they should have.</p>
<p>I remember all the comments in the 1970s that the NBA was too black. Then Larry Bird came along. As a fan [and all I most folks I knew] cared about was good basketball. By the way, Ted Septien, like more than one sport owner of the 1970s-1980s, was an idiot. A wealthy idiot but an idiot nevertheless.</p>
<p>"I guess another impression some of us have (maybe more on the east coast than the west coast?) is that asian-americans in general are more assimilated/integrated with whites than blacks are. "</p>
<p>Really? Do people think this? I mean, are you talking about African-Americans, descendants of slaves compared to 1st or 2nd generation Asian-Americans? I’m on the east coast and just can’t imagine that to be true in general.</p>
<p>I can’t imagine that, either. With the exception of certain areas, where I live has a very small Asian population and a large black population. I understand the opposite is true on the West Coast. I don’t get how native-born blacks would have to be “assimilated or integrated” because they aren’t immigrants. But what do I know?</p>
<p>most african americans in eastern cities are descended from folks who lived in very segregated circumstances in the rural south post emancipation, and moved north in the 1920s to 1940s (or to large cities in the south somewhat later) and generally lived in fairly segregated circumstances in the north. And quite often, upon reaching middle class status, moved to predominantly african american suburbs (like most of PG county maryland)</p>
<p>Obviously, I would think, there are many very different african american experiences in this country, and the difference by region, by community size, and by class have generated a not inconsiderable literature. Also by unassimilated, I was referring more to distinctive african american subcultures, and isolation from “mainstream” society, not an African identity per se.</p>
<p>"I don’t get how native-born blacks would have to be “assimilated or integrated” because they aren’t immigrants. But what do I know? "</p>
<p>differences in dialect, experience and outlook. Do you really think that african americans living in a segregated rural area in the south in 1940, or in a northern ghetto, were fully participating in the mainstream American experience? Or that someone from that background does not face a real struggle - one deserving of compassion, I might add - fitting into ‘general culture’. Indeed, from what I can gather, there is been much discussion within the african american community in the last 50 years of the merits of assimilation/intergration, versus cultural integrity.</p>
<p>Brooklynborndad, I live in a mixed neighborhood and always have, so I’ve never not seen black Americans as part of my daily, ordinary life. I’d say that it is a pretty similar life, as a matter of fact. Most of the black people I grew up with or live among now either “came up from the South” or their parents/grandparents did, so, again, to me it’s just normal.</p>
<p>Edited to add: I didn’t think you made it up at all, I just have trouble wrapping my mind around a comparison with new immigrants from Asia. But, again, it’s all what’s normal. There is less of an Asian-immigrant presence in my area than a black presence, so that’s what’s in my frame of reference.</p>
<p>I also live in an area where everyone holds onto some cultural integrity, so that is, in itself, part of assimilating. Which I know doesn’t make sense, but it’s true. By having a parade, a day, something special for your ethnicity, you’re just doing what everyone else does.</p>
<p>You are looking at blacks living in a mixed neighborhood. Not ones living in ghettos. </p>
<p>If you look at korean kids living in fairfax county va, vs african americans living in fairfax county, well yeah, the black kids dont "need to be assimilated’</p>
<p>If you look at Korean kids living in fairfax county va, vs african american kids living in Northeast DC, well thats something else again. </p>
<p>I am sure you could find parallels in NYC. </p>
<p>Of course, its also not the case that ALL asian american kids are immigrants or even children of immigrants. Though I dont have a good grasp on the national numbers for that.</p>
<p>"I just have trouble wrapping my mind around a comparison with new immigrants from Asia. "</p>
<p>Perhaps WE use language differently, but I read that as implying my assertion strained credulity. </p>
<p>I don’t know, after reading about the african american experience for years, seeing films about it, reading articles about it, being friends with assimilated middle class blacks but also having at least some exposure to the ghetto, I have difficulty wrapping my mind around the notion that at least some black people in American are very much not assimilated.</p>
<p>I am very familiar with all the geographic areas to which you refer-- from Brooklyn (born in Queens), to NoVa and PG County. I think you are guessing but I think you are way off base here. Black and White Americans are actually part of the same culture. The fact that so many try to portray an idealic, white middle-class culture as “American” doesn’t change the fact that, for example, most of the US was actually Black back when this country became a country and that <em>was</em> the “mainstream American experience.” So, at one point, the majority culture(which stopped being the majority culture because of immigration) was enslaved. As far as ‘dialects,’ a lot of that is regional. But, getting back to your point, for 1st and 2nd generation Asians, they or their ancestors would have been in Asia from the 1920s-1940s and even into the 21st century. So while your African-American neighbors may have taken New York Avenue into the District while you drive in on 66, and their parents attended Howard while yours attended Lehman, and their grandparents fought in different units of the US military, your Asian-American neighbors may have come from a small village in Thailand with rice paddies or had ancestors who were victims of the Japanese invasion of China, or have grown up visiting the Hindu shrines of India. That’s a far different experience than living on the other side of town. </p>
<p>Yes, there is great pride in all “sub” cultures in the US, but I would contend that they are all part of the same culture and don’t need to be “assimilated” any more than a northerner has to enjoy grits to be American. Surely, Hawaiian-Americans and Alaskan-Americans also have many of their own traditions but that doesn’t mean they need assimilating. Immigrants assimilate and often keep some of their own traditions (which we all enjoy when we go to Little Italy, Chinatown or Oktoberfest); there’s no reason why African-Americans or White Americans have to give up their traditions.</p>
<p>Just my opinion and I hope I didn’t offend anyone.</p>