I find this disturbing...

Applying to College
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<p>I think that it is VERY disturbing that there are some racial issues going on here at CC. Does anyone else feel the same way? Threads are focusing on "we" in terms of ethnicity, and I don't think that's fair. "We" should be students applying to college, parents of college students or applicants. "We" should not be "Asians applying to college" or "White applying to college" or "Blacks applying to college," etc. What I like about CC is the sense of community that we have most of the time as students, parents, and applicants. If we begin to segregate ourselves because of culture and ethnicity, how will we keep that sense of community alive?</p>

<p>So, I hope I'm not the only person who has noticed this...and I hope that I am not just the only one a bit distressed by this development. Nevertheless, this is just my opinion. Any thoughts?</p>

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<p>I guess the main reason why people seperate themselves is... well, they get treated differently DURING the admissions process. Asians, hispanics, Blacks, Whites; don't you forget, the color of your skin affects your chances into certain colleges. Asians especially have it hard when ti comes to admissions to the more prestige university and thus would like to talk with people who are under the same situation.</p>

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<p>True, and I understand this. However, what right to others have to come and start saying that they shouldn't be "whining" or that they don't have the right to discuss? Discussion is okay, and my main concern here is the backlash that these discussions are having. I don't know if the backlash is from people of the same ethnicity or not, but whatever it is, I don't think it's very healthy.</p>

<p>For example, look at one of the later responses to the "Why it's hard to be Asian" thread...</p>

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<p>communities have texture</p>

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<p>Asians have it harder because they apply with soo many very similar characteristics (I know this sounds bad but let me explain). The Asian applicant pool to top universities is, without a doubt, only trumped by whites by a little despite being a minority. </p>

<p>The asian culture emphasizes education; study study study all the time and push one's self because of fear of shame. Whites, hispanics, blacks, etc all believe education is important but to a lesser extent--their parents tend to push them less, atleast for hispanics this is the case. Because of the pressure, asian students often, I believe, excel in what they're told to moreso than what they choose. Science, math, music, and test scores are the big focuses. As a result, the chance that an asian will be "unique" in the admissions process will be much slimmer than let's say a hispanic which is a smaller applicant pool in top universities or a white person who chose to excel in areas they chose and found on their own. </p>

<p>If viewed this way, it will explain why some asians who are not legacies, rich, or have some great "hook" (I hate that word) get into top universities with "mediocre" (CC has absurd standards and anything below perfect is average) stats. It is about distinguishing one's self from others. Although people are grouped by race, the way you compete to get in is up to you and asians tend to focus on many of the same areas whereas other ethnicities, I believe, have a wider distribution and are more random.</p>

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<p>I get that, but why the hostility between people because of ethnicity? That's my main problem, I hope I've made it clear...</p>

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<p>Asians focus much more on prestige, because they feel that by going to a prestigous and elite university, they will gain the respect of those in power. And guess who are those in power? The white people. Frankly, Asians lack the roots and connections of their Caucasian and Jewish counterparts. Asians feel that the only way to get ahead and to get respect is to go to an elite college. </p>

<p>Blacks and Hispanics on the other hand are less interested in prestige and more interested in just getting a good education so that they can better themselves and live decent lives. They don't have the cutthroat mentality of Asians. Blacks and Hispanics, when it comes to getting an education, are more focused on the practical aspects rather than the "prestige" that most Asians are obsessed about. It's simple: Asians want more power, and getting a degree from a prestigious university is the ticket to attaining that power (at least in the minds of Asians).</p>

<p>Yes, these statements are controversial, but they need to be said.</p>

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<p>In an ideal world (to me), admissions would be based on merit, and there would be no difference in general merit among the races. Then we could all happily discuss our accomplishments and worries without throwing in the "I'm black" or "I'm Hispanic" or "my grandpa went to Harvard so how much of a bump do I get" stuff.</p>

<p>I honestly don't know where I stand on affirmative action... despite my ideal world described above, I realize that's not the state of the world now. Do minorities who do well (but not as well as whites) deserve the chance and the push? I am not a minority, so I don't feel qualified to judge the potential and the circumstances of minorities.</p>

<p>But gosh darnit (my sorry attempt at not cursing), I read that "why it's hard to be Asian" threat and wanted to throw something at the screen. You were born with a race/heritage, so deal with it, embrace it, work with it. What can you control in life, or in this case, in getting a good education? You can control YOU - do well in school, find something you love, be as productive as you can, be true to yourself... So stop focusing so much on race and turn your eyes inward towards yourself.</p>

<p>By the way, teknosoul02, I'm curious about the cultural perspective you pointed out. I am Asian, and I'm not sure that I do well in school because I want "power"... I think the main reason for me is a desire to be challenged and get a great education, even if it means getting some B's (versus going to an easy school and getting A's) Do I want to be smart because I want power? Well... I want to be a surgeon so that I can directly change people's lives, so I suppose that involves power in a sense. Hmm. Interesting thoughts.</p>

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<p>Thank you for your thoughtful response celestial! You always know what to say! I feel that you know exactly what I'm talking about. It's nice to know that I'm not the only one who feels the same way... :)</p>

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<p>Well, minorities, in some situations, do have major disadvantages, but then again so can whites/asians/etc. Therefore, regional and economic based AA is a better idea than race. Take me for example. I live(currently at Rice though) in south texas and my public school (one of the better ones in the region) was pretty crappy. About a 30-40% dropout rate from what I remember, awful test scores on standardized exams, and unqualified teachers (i.e. my comp sci ap teacher did not know java and learned along with us). Despite all that crap, I managed to do well but it required more effort to achieve the same had I been in a better school. I didn't have any good teachers until junior year when I enrolled in a small IB school that recently opened (amazing teachers there and the only school in the U.S. that has 100% pass rate for 5 years now). Here's what good teachers can do in terms of SAT's:</p>

<p>7th grade: 1050 (650M 500V)
9th 1100
10th 1150
11th 1340
12th 2150 (1460)</p>

<p>*Note: I never studied for the SAT since I felt it was a waste of time. Not because it wasn't worth doing well on to get into college but it did not test anything that I felt was important.</p>

<p>In terms of IB exams:</p>

<p>World average pass: 78%
Texas: 67%
My school: 100% with an average score of 31 (This is a 90% hispanic school BTW).</p>

<p>Now, although I did not have the best grades, the best scores, etc, I do just as well as others that did given the same situation. My jewish friend, a Century scholar at Rice who had a 2330 SAT and was Salutatorian, etc, receives tutoring from me in mathematics and physics. In my writing classes, I have an A+ so far (the highest grade out of all students), I tutor frequently in math/physics/chem (some of the people received 5's on all their AP's), and have a B+ average in Honors Cal III and Physics so far. Though I had far lower test scores, I am able to compete with and exceed in college because the level for everyone is equal.</p>

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<p>the level for everyone is not equal at any college. Colleges do, however, make pretty certain everyone they accept will make it there (with the exception of some state schools that weed).</p>

<p>There are always going to be differing opinions on AA and how different races are treated by colleges. That's life. Boards like this are a good place to examine attitudes. I for one love it and think I get a much better feel for people's honest beliefs then I get in "real life."</p>

<p>So what's the problem?</p>

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<p>"Blacks and Hispanics on the other hand are less interested in prestige and more interested in just getting a good education so that they can better themselves and live decent lives."</p>

<p>LOL! Blacks and Hispanics study to better themselves whereas Asians only study to gain power? You've got to be kiddin me... right? </p>

<p>I think Asians study to better themselves where as blacks and hispanics study to... oops?</p>

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<p>I agree with the OP and celestial. The amount of whining on CC has gotten entirely out of hand. The old CC seemed to have far fewer pity parties. Read the hilarious Asian Parents thread, for example. ;)</p>

<p><a href="http://www.collegeconfidential.com/discus/messages/5/54091.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.collegeconfidential.com/discus/messages/5/54091.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>A few of my favorites:

[quote]
Mom: "Dartmouth? What's that?" </p>

<p>Mom: "Yale? Is Yale REALLY as good as Harvard?" </p>

<p><em>proceeds to call 3 friends in China and asks them about Yale</em> </p>

<p>Mom: Well, they've heard of it. </p>

<p>Me: Mom, Harvard and Yale are like Beijing U and Xinghua in China, or Oxford and Cambridge in the UK. </p>

<p>Mom: "OHH! Why didn't you tell me in the first place!! Congratulations! But you're still going to send in your Harvard waitlist card."

[/quote]
</p>

<p>
[quote]
But here is the reaction of an asian parent to their son/daughter being accepted to this school These kinds of phrases are usually uttered by FOBs with APC(asian parent complex) which makes them overly obsessd with sending their progeny to The top tier Ivys. So without further to do... </p>

<p>HYPSM: You have honored this family well </p>

<p>Penn: You have disgraced the family going to penn state </p>

<p>Brown: What is this brown, no school can be good if named after a color </p>

<p>Columbia: You are not going outside the country for you education </p>

<p>Georgetown: You got accepted to a city? </p>

<p>U of Chicago: I will not let my child attend a public university </p>

<p>Northwestern: What?, you got accepted to a direction, what a disgrace to the family honor </p>

<p>AW or S: who has ever heard of (Amherst/Williams/Swarthmore) back home, you better start learning to wash dishes </p>

<p>Carnegie-Mellon: What kind of fruit is that? </p>

<p>Vanderbilt: Who-built? I don't know anything Vander did do be famous. </p>

<p>WUSTL: Where is St. Louis is it even part of the united states? Who is this "washington" </p>

<p>Rice: I will not let my child attend a cuilinary school, you will be a honorable scientist, not a chef </p>

<p>Wake Forest: What can you learn from a forest, I want my child to go to a university </p>

<p>Reed:They are sending us acceptance letters becasue you are such a disgrace that they think you need to learn how to READ </p>

<p>Colgate: Toothbrush making school is not a place I will send MY child

[/quote]
</p>

<p>
[quote]
Me: OH MY GOD, I just got a 93% on my calc test! </p>

<p>My Asian Mom: Don't worry. Try harder next time. </p>

<p>Me: Mom, I just can't apply to Harvard. My college counselor said I needed saftety schools. </p>

<p>My Mom: Fine. You can apply to Columbia then.

[/quote]
</p>

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<p>Lol that's funny^^</p>

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<p>karupt, like it or not, Asians ARE prestige wh0res. And their main impetus for studying is to gain prestige. Think about it; if you really wanted to study to better yourself, you could go to practically ANY university. Hell, you probably could go to a junior college and you can still better yourself.</p>

<p>But Asians want power and respect; we Asians as a race have constantly been spat on and laughed upon by the powers to be (rich white America). How can Asians attain that power? Well, Asians can't do what Tony Montana did so the only ticket to power and access to the elite status of America is to attend a prestigious university. That's the Asian mentality; they wanna be a part of the affluent, they FEEL that they only way to get validation is to attend a prestigious university.</p>

<p>For Christ's sake, look at all the prestige-mongering wh0res who infest this site.</p>

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<p>I don't see a problem with somone of that ethnicity/race stereotyping their OWN race.</p>

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<p>I disagree with suze, but I agree with asians being driven to prestige to an extent. My roommate is asian and got into dartmouth but chose Rice, and my other roommate (asian) got into caltech and chose Rice. Generalizing is ok if you don't go into absolutes.</p>

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<p>Thank you warbler!</p>

<p>I AM Asian, but wherever I am applying, it is definitely NOT for prestige. I am going for schools that will help me achieve my goals--helping people in rural and poverty-stricken areas of the world who do not have the same privileges that we have where I live. I also have a lot of Asian friends, none of whom are applying to schools for prestige. They're going where they want to go, not because the school has a world-reknowned name.</p>

<p>Oh, and when I say Asian, I mean South Asian, East Asian, SE Asian--all Asians. :o) I don't know how the stereotype started, but I know that where I live, it is not true (in most cases; there are always exceptions...).</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I AM Asian, but wherever I am applying, it is definitely NOT for prestige. I am going for schools that will help me achieve my goals--helping people in rural and poverty-stricken areas of the world who do not have the same privileges that we have where I live. I also have a lot of Asian friends, none of whom are applying to schools for prestige. They're going where they want to go, not because the school has a world-reknowned name.</p>

<p>Oh, and when I say Asian, I mean South Asian, East Asian, SE Asian--all Asians. ) I don't know how the stereotype started, but I know that where I live, it is not true (in most cases; there are always exceptions...).

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Pyleela, that is the smartest thing to do. I'm Asian, and I want to go to college good for me, not the top-rated one. In my area, though, there is no "stereotypical Asian" (except me). </p>

<p>.-_-.</p>

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<p>What's with all the bashing of prestige. Prestige of a school is one factor among many that are important when a college.</p>

<p>For getting your first job or doing business internationally the brand name of your school is very important.</p>