<p>I was wondering if I should even apply to any privates because I know that the classes are full of genius and valedictorians. Even though I am in the top 7% or so, the fact that I am going to be surrounded by so many smart people startles me. This raises the problem of college gpa. If I were to go to a prestigious university and get the average GPA or lower , I might not be able to get into grad school(in this case, medical school).... and this fact really worries me. I am ok with taking a gap year and whatnot, but my ultimate dream is to have a profession in medicine, and I don't want that ruined by a horrible gpa. So is it worth it? Or am I better going to a state school like UCSD and getting a 3.8/ high MCAT? If only Sakky or someone answered this...</p>
<p>in your case…i dont think so. why would you even consider ucsd if you’re looking at ivy league? are ucb and ucla not a lot better? </p>
<p>just apply to jhu instead of ivies</p>
<p>Way to totally miss the point of college. People go to Harvard to be surrounded by “geniuses,” in addition to highly motivated, talented people otherwise.</p>
<p>he didnt ask about harvard, doosh. way to answer the question. </p>
<p>you sound like the type of kid where his mommy paid for his acceptance at harvard.</p>
<p>But ******, he was mentioning IVY’s in general.</p>
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<p>FYI UCSD is great for the sciences. Also, just because he’s looking at Ivy Leagues doesn’t mean that he shouldn’t have match schools.</p>
<p>^^^oh. i think i may have confused it with san diego state a little bit. </p>
<p>does each cal have a specialty and ucb is just well rounded or something? lol</p>
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<p>Ask and ye shall receive.</p>
<p>The first thing I would say is that you can earn the ‘average’ GPA (or even a bit lower) at many top private schools and still be a highly competitive candidate for med-school, for the simple reason being that that average is so high. The “average” GPA at schools like Harvard and Stanford is over 3.5, and you can enhance your GPA even further by simply avoiding difficult classes and difficult majors (for example, by taking premed courses at a community college in a gap year). The average GPA at a school like UCSD is far lower, being barely above a 3.0, and many other public schools run similarly harsh grading standards. Hence, you run the significant risk of earning worse grades at the less prestigious school. That’s right - worse. </p>
<p>[University</a> of California, San Diego](<a href=“http://studentresearch.ucsd.edu/sriweb/gpa/index.htm]University”>http://studentresearch.ucsd.edu/sriweb/gpa/index.htm)</p>
<p>However, the ‘average’ GPA does not capture the true heart of the dynamic, for the true goal in the premed game is not so much about earning top grades, but rather about avoiding bad grades, and generally about avoiding downside grading variability. While that notion may sound like nothing more than a restatement of words, it places the emphasis on the fact that a failing grade is going to hurt you far far worse than an A is going to help you. At many top private schools, it’s practically impossible to actually fail. Even the worst student, as long as he puts in a bare modicum of effort, is still going to pass. Pass with a mediocre grade, mind you, but he’s still going to pass. But at a school like UCSD and many other large public schools, you really can fail. </p>
<p>Highly stochastic grading is precisely what you want to avoid, because even the best prepared student can have a bad day, but having a bad day during an exam at UCSD can mean getting stuck with a failing grade. Put another way, I’d rather take a 100% chance of getting a B than an 80% chance of getting an A but 20% chance of earning an F, despite the fact that the latter’s mean GPA of 3.2 is higher than the former’s 3.0. This is akin to the notion that most people would take a guaranteed $400k over a 50% chance of $1mil (but also a 50% chance of receiving nothing).</p>
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<p>So are you telling me that I can (hypothetically speaking) major in Computer Science at Stanford and take all my premed pre-reqs at a CC after I graduate?
(if i dont get into med school, I will always have the CS major backing me up)</p>
<p>Sure, why not? </p>
<p>*
Myth #11.
I AM ALWAYS BEST OFF TAKING ALL MY
INTRODUCTORY PRE-MED CLASSES AT
STANFORD.</p>
<p>False. It is true that it is more difficult to get
an A in a Stanford pre-med class than it is at most other
schools. This is easier to understand since you are
graded on a curve with some of America’s best students.
Consequently, an ‘A’ at Stanford can mean a lot,
particularly in science classes with a ‘C’ mean.</p>
<p>However, most of you won’t get A’s in every
class. And because of this, some of you certainly
would have had higher GPA’s elsewhere. It is also true
that medical school know this and will take it into account.</p>
<p>However, this ‘forgiveness factor’ is not infinite.
Getting a 4.0 in your pre-med requirements at a
junior college will certainly make you a stronger applicant
than a 3.5 in your pre-med requirements at Stanford.</p>
<p>One admissions officer I spoke with estimated
the bump factor of attending a school like Harvard or
Stanford to be between 0.3 and 0.5 of a grade point.</p>
<p>For some of you, an ‘A’ in high school could
be achieved through hard work and determination.
This is not necessarily true of the pre-med classes at
Stanford. Everyone is trying hard. They are all smart.
And the classes can be very difficult.</p>
<p>The upshot of all of this is that some of you
may be more successful applying to medical school by
taking most of your pre-med classes elsewhere. And I
have certainly known many applicants who would have
been more successful applying to medical school if they
had pursued their academic passions at Stanford and
took their pre-med classes elsewhere, either in summers
or in a year off. I have also known students at Stanford—
who would have been fantastic physicians—who
quit the pre-med process in frustration without exploring
this option. If you want to be a doctor and are
struggling at Stanford, this option is worth exploring.</p>
<p>I say this with some hesitancy because I know
it may cause controversy and it is difficult to know who
would be statistically better off focusing their pre-med
energies at a less competitive institution. I should also
add, however, that all such ‘core’ classes cover the material
required both for the MCAT and to be a good
doctor.</p>
<p>This in no way is meant to imply you made the
wrong choice by coming to Stanford if you are a premed.
Quite the contrary, Stanford may be the best
place in the country for pre-meds to attend college.
You can attain a first-rate education in any field and
simultaneously approach your pre-med curriculum with
more flexibility and more creativity than at nearly any
other university.</p>
<p>Take home point: Consider taking some of
your pre-med classes elsewhere if you are hitting a wall
here. Many successful medical school applicants have
done this.*</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.questscholars.org/oldstuff/activities/professional/pre-med_letter/premed-letter-2001-2-pdf.pdf[/url]”>http://www.questscholars.org/oldstuff/activities/professional/pre-med_letter/premed-letter-2001-2-pdf.pdf</a></p>
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<p>Sorry, I used Harvard as an example because I’m used to talking about it on these forums. I didn’t mean to offend you. And I did answer the question.</p>
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<p>Don’t be immature. I don’t know what your basis is for making such a claim, but it’s laughable how wrong you are. I don’t normally reveal personal information but I attend Harvard on financial aid because my family’s income is <40k.</p>
<p>If you can get into Stanford as an unhooked student, you are going to get into med school. As Sakky said, it’s easier to get a high GPA at Stanford and the ivies than at UCSD. Those schools also don’t “weed” like UCs do. Remember at top schools, 40% of the class is comprised of athletes, legacies and the well connected–everyone is not a genius.</p>
<p>You should look at Rice for pre-med. In my opinion, it is one of the best places in the U.S. to pursue pre-med because we are right across the street from Texas Medical Center, the world’s largest medical center. This equals a lot of opportunities for research and volunteering.</p>
<p>Also, Rice boasts a 90 percent acceptance rate to medical school; some years it is even higher. </p>
<p>You should not be looking at schools through such a black and white perspective… for you, it appears to be state schools or Ivies/Stanford. There are so many other excellent schools in between this spectrum, such as Rice, WashU, Duke, Emory, Carnegie, Tufts, etc. I would strongly argue that Rice and Duke give as good as an education as Ivies, if not better. Rice is an undergraduate focused school, so you will get an excellent undergraduate education here that rivals the education offered by the Ivies.</p>
<p>I agree with sakky, but only to a point. Even H doesn’t give out 90% A’s. Thus, a top student at UCSD might have an easier chance of earning A’s than at Harvard or Stanford where s/he is only in the middle of the pack (or worse).</p>
<p>Don’t forget that the average gpa of Brown is ~3.6. And, it has the ultimate course flexibility, including pass-fail, drop at the last minute, etc. A no-brainer if high grades are the goal.</p>
<p>hmom: there are plenty of high-scoring legacies and well-connected kids. Chelsea Clinton obviously has good brain genes, for example.</p>
<p>Yes, hmom- My Ivy kid was an athletic recruit but also had the stats. There is a lot of overlap. That said, not everyone is a genius or a Val.</p>
<p>I do not think it is worth going to an Ivy unless you are getting significant financial aid if you are pre-med. Just my opinion.</p>
<p>Let me just assure you that you are perfectly able to get into a great medical school without attending a prestigious college. My dad went to a Christian University that was basically open admit, got the highest grade in everything he ever took, did fabulously on the MCAT, and got into Wake Forest Medical school. It can be done! In my opinion, the prestige of the Ivies might be more useful to someone going into the business world, or another field which demands the great connections. Doctors are always needed!</p>
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<p>But the question then is, how do you know that you’ll be a top student at UCSD? There’s no way to be sure; SAT scores and high school grades are not perfect proxies. What if you choose UCSD and then find out to your chagrin that you’re not one of the top students? Heck, what if you find out that you’re one of the worst students? A terrible student at Harvard or Stanford may get mediocre grades but he’ll still probably graduate, whereas a terrible student at UCSD may not even graduate at all. </p>
<p>Furthermore, like I said, college grading is stochastic. College grades do not always reflect only your work habits or your level of knowledge but also contain a level of randomness. Surely we can all think of people who were brilliant and studious, but just happened to have a bad day on a particular exam and hence received a lousy grade. I remember one guy who was arguably the best student in a particular class - such that the other students periodically consulted him for help - but just happened to completely misread one question on an exam (which had only 3 questions), and so wound up with a lousy grade. (On the other hand, we can surely also think of examples of students who knew nothing and learned nothing yet luckily received top grades - one guy I know just happened to luckily include on his ‘cheat sheet’ the complete derivation of several questions on his exam, such that all he had to do was just copy from his sheet resulting in his easily receiving the highest grade in the class, even though he freely admitted he did not really understand the material.) </p>
<p>You therefore have to be wary of how the stochastic nature of the grading in a particular school can hurt you. Like I said, even if you suffer a unlucky exam day at Harvard or Stanford, you’re still going to pass. Perhaps with a mediocre grade, but you’re still going to pass. But at UCSD, you truly can fail. </p>
<p>The premed game has less to do with getting top grades than about avoiding bad grades, for an F will damage you far more than an A will help you. The best way to avoid F’s is to simply choose a school that practically never even assigns them in the first place.</p>
<p>i think it would be much better in the long-run for u to go to an undergraduate school u would enjoy, have some fun in, get excellent marks, & be considered ‘the cream of the crop’. i don’t really think harvard [& the like] is a great option for your first four years fresh out of high school unless u can really handle the pressure of being surrounded by 16273831 kids who are potentially smarted than u D: it would be exhausting. my best advice to u would be to go to a slightly-less prestigious school, do SUPER well, & then go on to harvard or where ever from there. hope this helps.</p>
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<p>Yeah, well, but again, the question is, how do you know that you are going to ‘do super well’? Everybody would like to do that - just like everybody would like to look like Brad Pitt - but very few people actually do. What if you decline Harvard in favor of that less prestigious school…and you don’t do well there?</p>
<p>What are the long-term advantages to going to a top-15-ranked med school vs. a 35-55 ranked med school? If there isn’t much of a difference, then maybe all the struggling and straining to be at the top of the heap at a tip-top undergrad school (eg, great grades at a Stanford-level school) isn’t necessary…being merely good at a Stanford or very good at a UCSD would suffice.</p>