<p>OP, I’m an MSU grad. I stick by what I said earlier about how I think it should be the child’s decision. I was pressured to go to U of M and chose MSU- best decision I ever made. </p>
<p>You have a very skewed view of MSU. Which is to be expected, especially if you grew up in Michigan where U of M is king and MSU is, and always will be, “little brother”. However, as someone who has now gone to both schools (I am a grad student at U of M), I can tell you that there are both incredibly talented and incredibly clueless kids at both schools. I’ve had to fire two different U of M undergrads because they couldn’t handle doing data entry. These were upper-level undergrads and one had already graduated.</p>
<p>I was a 3.8/33 ACT student in high school who chose MSU. I received an incredible education and got into every graduate program I applied to. I was recently awarded a GSI position as a Master’s student in a department that doesn’t have an undergraduate program- which is an incredibly rare accomplishment because the GSI positions are so heavily sought after. It was my preparation at MSU that made my application stand out, according to the professor. </p>
<p>I’m not trying to say that you should go to MSU. I think you should be able to go to wherever you feel is a best fit. I say this as someone who bleeds green and who is marrying someone whose family has bled green for four generations. However, I also don’t think, given your posts, that you’ve given MSU a fair shake. </p>
<p>I might suggest looking into the Honors College or one of the residential colleges. I am a residential college alum and it was one of the best parts of going to MSU. </p>
<p>I don’t mean to keep pouring on with the "MSU is a much better school than you give it credit for, " but MSU is a much better school than the OP has described. Here’s a look at the admitted freshman profile for 2013:</p>
<p>It’s unfortunate you guys snuffed out the college and now the thread has turned into MSU isn’t that bad. The thread is about parents being basically obsessed with a generational legacy thing at a large college that isn’t terribly difficult to get into. I think the multi generation thing is silly in general, even if it were ND, NU or even any Ivy. I guess it’s neat when ND reserves a 1/4 of the class for legacies, but nobody should ever need MSU legacy status to get in, where as ND requires 99 percentile scores for non legacies. I guess I’m just trying to understand why parents are so obsessed with building a generation of legacies? It feels very selfish and self-serving to me. And just plain weird.</p>
<p>If the middle 50% have 23-28 ACTs, safe bet the bottom 33% have <19-25 ACTs. But that’s not what this thread is about, this thread is about my parents being obsessed with establishing some multi-generational legacy thing. Why do parents care about that?</p>
<p>If you live in Michigan, the costs are almost certainly part of the equation. MSU is a lot cheaper than ND. Actually, MSU is a good bit cheaper than ND even if you’re out of state. I see this with PSU alum parents all the time. They may have stronger anti-U of M feelings, but I’ll bet if you can find another school that gets within sight of MSU costs, you can have a real conversation about schools. </p>
<p>I agree that your parents’ desire to create a legacy thing is odd and unreasonable compared to more practical matters like cost and academic offerings.</p>
<p>But you may want to rethink the idea of MSU being a lowly inferior third tier school, or the idea that you can only be happy at a reach school or an expensive school (like ND or NU). And you will have your share of academic challenge as an engineering major at any school.</p>
<p>Also, the reason people want to know the identity of the school is that there have been many threads before comparing unnamed schools. In some of these cases, revealing the schools also revealed that the OP’s assumptions about them was incorrect.</p>
<p>2014-2015 COA for Notre Dame is ~$62,000/year
2014-2015 COA for MSU (instate) is $22,400/year</p>
<p>I’m sure their feelings aren’t ALL about cost. Sounds like the parents loved their time at MSU and they hope their children can have the same kind of feelings/experiences as they did. I don’t know if it’s so much a legacy thing as a shared-experience thing.</p>
<p>Hard to tell what the true motivations are on an anonymous internet forum.</p>
<p>MSU is a great school. Just not for me. I would never push my alma mater on my kids, unless it helped them out in admissions or something, which isn’t in play with MSU. So it’s challenging for me to wrap my head around my parent’s motives.</p>
<p>“I don’t know if it’s so much a legacy thing as a shared-experience thing.” That’s a perspective I didn’t consider. Thanks. But do note that they use the “generation of State grads”. Some of their circle of friends have grandparents, parents and kids going to State. It’s a total “thing”.</p>
<p>I guess it feels like they want to brag to their friends they’re a part of this multi-generational thing. But why would that impress anyone? Don’t understand it. And it’s tough for me to talk about this with them without them getting offended.</p>
Don’t put down, belittle or criticize MSU to your parents. This might just antagonize them.
Research the schools you want to go to and find out if there are specific concrete advantages you can get there that you can’t get at MSU AND find out if you can get significant merit aid that will bring the cost down to the same or less as MSU. Show your parents these facts and make the case that you should at least apply.
Keep an open mind about MSU. Find out if there are programs there that would suit you.</p>
<p>OP,
your postion here is very confusing. First, you have asked about our opinion. Second, after we have expressed it, you are stating that we are wrong. How opinion could be wrong? It is an opinion, not the fact. Also, you were told, that our opinion has no consequences to your situation any way. Why? Because, your parents have their opinion, how we can change it? Again, opinion cannot be right or wrong by definition. And again, unfortunately, your only “veto” pawer is to walk away from your parents support. Can you afford it? If not, then this discussion has no base, none, zilch. You do not have a leverage, period. Unless, as I have mentioned before you obtain a great Merit award at one of the schools that you personally desire, that will make this school as very desirable at least from the financial point. I do not understand why you are not considering this option. I know that not only publics but many privates provide huge Merit packages to top caliber students. You are such a student, so why not? Frankly, D. did not apply to a single UG that would not offer her a Merit. And one of the privates gave her $27K / year. She did not choose it, but would not such an offer make your selection of UG much more attractive to your parents?</p>
<p>I’ll address the why. The parents know that school and feel comfortable that they know how you will do there and a bunch of tiny details that matter to them that probably don’t register for you. They want you to go there because they love you. We all do what we think is best for our kids. Sometimes we are right. Sometimes we are wrong.</p>
<p>While this is not my personal style, I can appreciate why some parents might feel more comfortable knowing the school their child attends a bit more intimately than many of us. For me it is all about cost-benefit. My rationale may be different, but the conclusions could end up the same.</p>
<p>If you want them to take your arguments seriously, you need to do a better job. I think that is why some have (rightly) pointed out the problems with your objections. You cannot seriously treat MSU (or any Big 10 school) as a 3rd Tier academic institution. They are larger and have a broader admissions policy than many of the elite schools, but it is not like the more ‘academic’ majors are filled with low-medium stat students. To get into Engineering, Honors or something like that you will find everyone is in another class that if measured alone would be among the more selective schools in the country.</p>
<p>I think the OP has a chance arguing UofM over MSU since it’s relatively cost neutral and you can always break tradition I guess, but I can’t imagine very many parents willing to shell out huge bucks for ND or any other college that isn’t any “better” for the student. And frankly at some point you’re splitting hairs when you compare the original Big 10 unis in terms of quality of education and quality of professors and you can include ND in that even though it’s not a member of the Athletic league. </p>
<p>Let me tell you about my younger son. When my older son was a high school senior, younger son (soph in high school) loudly declared that “no way” would he ever go to the same undergrad as his brother. We were totally fine with that and wanted him to apply to several schools when his time came. (they had attended a small Catholic high school and I think younger son was tired of the “are you X’s brother?”</p>
<p>When it came time to move older son into his dorm, younger son caught the fever and declared that he was ONLY going to apply to that school. (we made him apply to 6 schools). In the end, he went to his brother’s undergrad and had a fabulous time. </p>