<p>Yes, it is selfish of the parents if they are pressuring the child to attend unless it is due to finances and/or academic considerations (better academics at their school).</p>
<p>However, unless you’re able to get scholarships/merit aid which makes the need for their financial support unnecessary, you may have to just deal and bide your time.</p>
<p>BTW: MSU isn’t a third-tier school. While it may not have the luster of U of M, it is well-respected nationwide. An older cousin attended as a full-merit scholarship student in the honor college back in the '80s and took full advantage of all it had to offer…including joining a sorority while graduating with high honors. </p>
<p>She’s currently a senior executive at a fortune 500 and one of the nicest personalities you’ll ever meet. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Many HS students do have friends or close acquaintances from older and younger classes. Like many others, I didn’t limit myself nor did others limit their social associations exclusively to those of their own class year. </p>
<p>Also, depending on the prevailing HS student culture, discussing one’s GPA/test scores could have been par for the course. It certainly was at the public magnet when I attended. </p>
<p>There are parents who would like their children to ‘follow in their footsteps’ in many areas: branch of the military, sports team favorites, fraternity/sorority house, careers, religions, etc. The parents enjoy or believe in those things, and want to have something in common with their children. If the son of ‘five generations of navy men’ decides he likes the air force more, will the family be disappointed? Maybe. Some people are much more into tradition than others. I know many people who would be devastated if their child changed religions (for marriage or otherwise) but others who would welcome the new traditions and ceremonies.</p>
<p>I live in FSU vs. UF land. Yes, people have a preference. Yes, families are split, and sometimes not in a friendly way. I asked my nephew how the kids picked between the two, and he told me that if you get into UF, you go there, but after I moved her I found that wasn’t true at all. MANY kids prefer FSU, or heaven forbid, Central Florida, over UF.</p>
<p>You need to focus on the positives of both MSU and any other school you discuss with your parents. If they won’t budge, you have to decide if you can be happy at MSU. If not, don’t go there. I very easily steered my kids away from any school I didn’t want them to go to, but they weren’t focused on any particular school. Neither wanted UF or FSU, so we didn’t have that battle.</p>
<p>It is not due to finances. They want this multiple-generation legacy thing.</p>
<p>Our high school publishes all of the various tiers of honors and where everyone is going to college. Everyone is very open about their grades and test scores. There are one or two girls with my scores that were legacies, but the rest have much lower stats. I just want to explore somewhere new. It feels a little disturbing to me to encourage your kids to live in your same bubble. Rinse, repeat. The lower achieving student body is just part of this.</p>
<p>“MSU isn’t a third-tier school.” I strongly disagree. But again, we’re not debating the merits or lack thereof of MSU. I just don’t want to be forced to attend my parent’s average alma mater.</p>
<p>EDIT: YES! The word “tradition!!!” is thrown around SO much at home. It kind of makes me cringe when I hear it now. It’s not “tradition” … it’s we’re going to force this place on you against your will.</p>
<p>Unless the legacy status helps you get into a really selective college, I can’t wrap my head around all but forcing your kid to go there. I get it that seeing me on football Saturdays is convenient for them but give me a break, I’m the one that has to spend four years there, make most of my lifetime friends there and have it on my resume forever.</p>
<p>@GullLake have your parents been open to visit/explore other colleges? Is one parent easier to talk one-on-one about your feelings? Maybe the underlying thing is that they want the ‘family’ experiences to continue to be ‘shared’. They probably just cannot fathom that you have not caught the ‘fever’.</p>
<p>What are you planning on studying, and what other schools do you want to explore (not $$ ND, but other cost equiv. colleges).</p>
<p>Did you want to see what other colleges you can be at that may be cost-equiv?</p>
<p>In my state (AL) there is some joking with ‘house divided’ when one member of the family is AU and another is UA. Do you have any other family members or friends that are more open to the non-legacy thing?</p>
<p>I was pretty keen on DDs staying in-state for best financial picture along with the degrees they are interested in can obtain excellent education. We did visit OOS colleges and in-state private just to see what was out there - but our family has a lot of college experiences in various states. DDs worked hard and got automatic scholarships/merit and the college fit was excellent for both of them. They had enough money to not staying at commuter college that had their majors but not the best place for them - other colleges were better for their major along with more experiences that they are taking advantage of. Both DDs are going to their first choice school and we agree with their choice and are 100% supportive.</p>
<p>Sometimes families do not realize that they are not fostering family with some of their actions. H and I had to push back our wedding almost a year because my parents had their 25th wedding anniversary celebration that took precedence. H and I had the maturity to accept this, even though most people would agree the wedding should have taken precedence. Parents didn’t really have a wedding celebration, so this was very important to them. They also later had a 40th wedding anniversary celebration. Dad died when he was 63. Glad they had the celebrations.</p>
<p>“Is one parent easier to talk one-on-one about your feelings?” - This strategy is called cold-blooded manipulation and nothing else. When caught doing that, I pointed to my kid that it is NOT the way to get waht she wants and actually would pretty much prevents any further discussion with firm “NO”. No talks behind the backs, at least in my family, noway, nohow. </p>
<p>I get your argument about the multi-generation legacy thing and how that bugs you. (I come from a family where EVERYone went to UNC and I didn’t go there, so I really do see your point.)</p>
<p>However, when you say:
</p>
<p>I have a hard time believing that this is 100% true. Unless your family is really wealthy, I think that comparing the 4-year cost of Notre Dame (about $250,000) or Northwestern (also about $250,000) to the 4-year cost of MSU (about $88,000) would make any parent pause. </p>
<p>It might not be THE factor, but it’s probably A factor. It may be something to remember and address when you’re marshaling your arguments about attending another school. </p>
<p>Regarding the turn of this discussion to MSU instead of parents wanting a generational legacy, you’re probably correct, it may have gotten off-track. But in your original post you made a comment about this particular school not having a high enough of a concentration of dedicated students for your liking. So let’s be honest, there’s more to this than just legacy/parents, and most peoples’ defense of MSU was simply responding to your comment. </p>
<p>Now, to directly respond to what you say is the main issue, whether this is right of your parents (or as you term in the title of your post “selfish”). Maybe, maybe not… But it doesn’t really matter whether it is or not, or whether you or I or anyone else here agrees with them (or you). They are adults and are free to do whatever they want, even if it sucks on your end. And by the time you go to college, or shortly thereafter, you will be an adult and may have some tough decisions to make. Potentially some very serious financial ones if your dad plays the legacy card in regards to paying. You also may have to make a decision of whether you go somewhere you’re not exactly crazy about if means saving a lot of money. Again, a tough adult decision.</p>
<p>Instead of worrying about your parents opinions, I would suggest you do the following:
Realize, starting right now, that it may not be as easy as you would like to go down the road you want to travel. Not impossible. But there’s a chance you may be traveling that road without your parents help. Again, it will be your choice what the road is. It’s their choice if they want to help.
Start getting an understanding of personal finance now so you’re better prepared to make those decisions if the day comes. Read and learn. Tons.
When the time comes, apply to as many schools as you like.
Start saving money right now in case you have to pay for any application other than MSU
See what FA packages come from other schools
Prepare yourself for the possibility that you may end up paying for your own education, and that in order to travel the road you want to travel, it may mean gap years, or CC for a year or two.</p>
<p>And then stop thinking that this all might not be what you want, or that you deserve something else, or that this isn’t fair. That’s not going to accomplish anything, because none of us are owed a thing. Life sometimes (often!) is really hard. Get proactive and plan contingencies. It’s part of growing up.</p>
<p>GullLake, the world is full of people who make decisions or express thoughts that we don’t agree with. And we seldom get what we want. It is, however, up to us how we handle it all.</p>
<p>This may not be what you wanted to hear, but I think you should give it some serious thought.</p>
<p>According to the most referred to college rankings (USNWR), Michigan State is ranked #73. I pay little attention to these rankings, but wouldn’t that put it as a “Tier 1” School, or highTier 2 at worst? And even if not Tier 1 in reality, are you assuming you have done more research about all its programs than other educated adults whose job it is to do exactly that? That you, as a busy high school student, just happens to know so much better than they as to be able to say with such certainty of infallibility that it’s a Tier 3 in reality? Sorry, not buying it. Have you visited and researched a few other universities which are largely regarded as Tier 3 to get a valid comparison?</p>
<p>Should you be “forced” to attend this school? Certainly not! Couldn’t you get a full ride at another Tier 1 given your qualifications? </p>
<p>Lastly, you seem very concerned you are going to be surrounded by idiots. I’m sure there are plenty of idiots around in a big school like that. But there will be PLENTY of top, top, brilliant students at that university in the Honors College or other difficult to get into programs. You may find some that are so smart they leave you in the dust. If you end up at MSU, you won’t have to go too far out of your way to find and surround yourself with these types of students, and you will be enriched for the better because of it. Every big school has their geniuses, no matter the “Tier” assigned to it.</p>
<p>It’s #73 but what really reinforces it’s tier 3 status is that many students I know are there with sub 25 ACT scores.</p>
<p>Tier 1: 32-36 ACT (pretty much every school in the top 20-ish US news + super selective LAS)
Tier 2: 28-32 (pretty much every school in the top 40)
Tier 3: Sub 28 (schools 50-ish to 100)</p>
<p>“Unless your family is really wealthy, I think that comparing the 4-year cost of Notre Dame (about $250,000) or Northwestern (also about $250,000) to the 4-year cost of MSU (about $88,000) would make any parent pause.”</p>
<p>They would react the same way about me going to UMich in Ann Arbor, which is roughly the same price. This is not a money thing. My dad makes plenty. This is a “tradition” and “Green legacy” thing.</p>
<p>This may not be about a bragging “I’ve continued the legacy” thing. Given that your dad has been quite successful financially, he may truly believe that the extra cost of other universities doesn’t translate into superior professional success. He may truly be unable to believe that the extra cost is “worth it.” He had such a wonderful experience at MSU that he just cannot believe that you won’t get there and love it as much as he did.</p>
<p>He may be wrong about that; however I wouldn’t automatically assign evil motives here. I’m betting your parents love you to death, but just feel you don’t know what you don’t know-which is that it’s a great school which will afford you the identical benefits of any other top school. So, if you want to change his mind, you need to do your homework and leave any “attitude” behind when you present your case or you will doom your case from the outset. “You get more flies with honey than vinegar” is not one of the most worn out sayings in existence for nothing.</p>
<p>Good luck! I really hope you can work this out!</p>
<p>So, you are pretty much making up your own tiers, it seems. Have you asked your family point blank if they would pay for Michigan if you get in, since it is a similar cost to Michigan State?</p>
<p>^^ I have to agree with this. If/When you try to discuss your college options with your parents, do not use your “Tier 3” argument because the falsity of this argument will make you look uninformed.</p>
<p>“This strategy is called cold-blooded manipulation and nothing else” (talking to the “easier” parent first)</p>
<p>Seriously? So if a kid wants to “come out” to Mom before talking to Dad, that’s manipulation? Or if kid knows that Mom will be more disappointed that kid doesn’t want to become a teacher, like she is, it’s bad to talk to Dad first? I think it is a perfectly acceptable thing to do, and can make the delivery of unexpected news less stressful for everyone, as the “easy” parent can potentially understand the best way to “break the news” to the “difficult” parent. </p>
<p>@GullLake - Maybe you should try to focus your parents on leaving college versus merely getting in. What are you going to study, and how do graduates from other locations do comparatively vs. MSU. Also remember, applications are about options. Only a $50-$75 commitment each to every school you apply. </p>
<p>Try getting them to take you to see someplace smaller. Michigan doesn’t have the variety of schools available on the coasts, so I appreciate it’s difficult to find a small LAC to juxtapose. Since most of the better schools in the MI, IN, IL, OH area are the big schools, it comes back to “what’s different”?</p>
<p>Maybe you should ask them why they want you there so badly. At some point, I or we or me is going to be part of the answer. They probably want you to share what they had in college. Explaining to them that for you to have the same type of experience, you need to find a school that offers that to YOU…not them. Keep in mind that it’s also hard to write the checks…so “giving” it to your alma mater feels better.</p>
<p>Good school or bad, if you don’t “want” to be there, it isn’t what is should be.</p>
<p><<<<
Many HS students do have friends or close acquaintances from older and younger classes. Like many others, I didn’t limit myself nor did others limit their social associations exclusively to those of their own class year.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>Of course! but to claim that you know all these older kids’ final stats is hard to believe.</p>
<p>My husband and I have a “mixed marriage.” Me- U of M. Him- MSU. It’s a lot of fun. Our D is a 4.0 UW, 36 ACT student. He knows that the ONLY state school she belongs at is U of M. She will apply to several schools, but not to MSU. He is putting her needs first. </p>
<p>In the other thread you started I got the impression that you are interested in UMich. What year are you? You should definitely make a list of pros and cons of ALL the schools on your list, whether your own preferences or “parents’ choice.”</p>
<p>I think your tier system is way off, BTW. There is a lot more to intelligence than test scores. And there are kids with high test scores at every imaginable school, anyway.</p>