<p>I found this mini-debate in the engineering forum quite interesting and worth discussing here. Take a moment away from studying/playing/work and exercise your brain with this heated question. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>Q: Is it tougher to become a doctor or an engineer?</p>
<p> Note: For our interest, we compare the route one must take if he/she wants to become an engineer for a prestigious entity (e.g., NASA) with that one must take to get into a top-tier med school, and later land a true doctor-paying job.</p>
<p>Umm...is there really a debate? Are you wanting to know if it is tougher to get a PhD in engineering than an MD? Correct me if I'm wrong but the work you have to go through to become an MD is absurd. I'm some engineer will have a differing opinion (I am neither and MD or engineer btw).</p>
<p>doctor hands down. getting into engineering in college to begin with is based on high school stuff which is a cakewalk im sorry. med school depends on college performance with college grades. for engineers you can intern throughout college as well to get a foot in the door. you cant do that for medicine and even with superb stats you are still a nobody and no one is a shoo-in anywhere</p>
<p>-go through the whole process of PhD and being a successful engineer in a prestigious company (meaning not screwing up and killing people with a bad design practice or being a dumb engineer)</p>
<p>[OR]</p>
<ul>
<li>go through the process of MD, becoming a successful practicing doctor (no malpractice .. no dead patients) </li>
</ul>
<p>Everyone knows, medical school is tough. People struggle with stamina and mental strain. Becoming a practicing doctor means long hours. Engineering PhD is difficult too. A lot of the work is independent and stressful. In the industry, it is also difficult to get funding for R&D, and a lot of pressure to not fail your contractors by making the deadline.</p>
<p>The discussion also includes risk management (engineers face more risk in disasters since building collapses are more media worthy than a doctor mistake )</p>
<p>I am not on either side, by the way. :rolleyes: But I think it's right down the middle when you don't be narrow minded and think about supporting sides of each argument.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The discussion also includes risk management (engineers face more risk in disasters since building collapses are more media worthy than a doctor mistake )
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</p>
<p>who cares about media coverage. if you screw as either you lose your license you spent your whole life getting and also litigations. whether its public or private your career is over</p>
getting into engineering in college to begin with is based on high school stuff which is a cakewalk im sorry.
[/quote]
I think that you can get flamed for that. Either that, or you misinterpreted the topic. R&D in the industry, or even at the PhD level is nowhere near the high school level material.</p>
<p>As for interns, yes, you are correct that an internship can assist one in an entry level position. But the topic is to become a SUCCESSFUL engineer in the industry. Everyone knows there are undergrads with 2.3GPA with an internship and got an offer. But engineerings work in teams, and it is very easy to detect the dumb engineers. Consider the argument to be one whose goal is to become a top engineer.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I think that you can get flamed for that. Either that, or you misinterpreted the topic. R&D in the industry, or even at the PhD level is nowhere near the high school level material.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>you are accepted into engineering programs as undergraduates based on high school statistics which quite frankly can be a joke. getting the grades in high school was cakewalk for me. once you get into college you can intern and already establish networks for industries later down the line. most engineers can get jobs w/o any advanced degree past the undergraduate level. get a job, go back to school to advance your degree, and increase your pay or move up the ladder</p>
you are accepted into engineering programs as undergraduates based on high school statistics which quite frankly can be a joke.
[/quote]
Well for your argument, you are comparing the difficulty between the undergraduate admission for the engineering school and that of the pre-medical path. Not certain, but I think the engineering school is more difficult to get into, so I guess you assume the latter is much more of a joke?</p>
<p>Anyways, the argument is about PhD/MD, not the undergraduate degree. The argument about undergraduate/pre-med is another topic .. haha.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Well for your argument, you are comparing the difficulty between the undergraduate admission for the engineering school and that of the pre-medical path. Not certain, but I think the engineering school is more difficult to get into, so I guess you assume the latter is much more of a joke?</p>
<p>Anyways, the argument is about PhD/MD, not the undergraduate degree. The argument about undergraduate/pre-med is another topic .. haha.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>you already have your foot in the door once you get in as an undergraduate for engineers, which is based on high school stats. medical school does not offer that luxury. everything is based on college work and college grades. and if your talking about just being a top doctor in your later posts, that's different still than getting into a top school since you dont need to go to some top tier school to become a renowned doctor</p>
<p>you are/were talking about getting a phd and working at some prestigious company and im saying you dont even need to get a phd to work at a prestigious company. you can always already intern at a company and get your name known, land a "lower" end engineering job, go get your phd, and climb up the ladder in your company. and to get that engineering internship, most requires that those applicants are engineering majors. and engineering majors get into that undergraduate major based on high school statistics</p>
im saying you dont even need to get a phd to work at a prestigious company.
[/quote]
Well you are right. For the sake of more discussion and fair comparison of tip top professionals in both fields, let's consider that the top engineering company requires a PhD for an opportunity at an elite position. Would your view change any then?</p>
<p>Also consider that the engineer must be licensed, requiring 4 years of school and 4 years of practice.</p>
<p>that depends. does it have to be a phd from an elite institution? because then those require high gpas which are difficult for engineering majors where the goal of most people are to just pass and land the job right out of college.</p>
<p>if the argument becomes: is it harder to get a phd from an elite institute and work for a prestigious company as a filthy rich renowned engineer vs trying to get into an elite medical school and land a residency in say dermatology which makes you a filthy rich doctor, but also require that you become a renowned filthy rich doctor, then its harder to say which is more difficult.</p>
<p>even considering the licensing, i think doctors have to jump through more loopholes. work for subpar wages during their residency that varies according to specialty if they can even land that one in a million chance position to begin with</p>
is it harder to get a phd from an elite institute and work for a prestigious company as a filthy rich renowned engineer vs trying to get into an elite medical school and land a residency in say dermatology which makes you a filthy rich doctor, but also require that you become a renowned filthy rich doctor, then its harder to say which is more difficult.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yes, this was the original argument I wanted to present. That's why there are many discussion topics about this. Except, I don't think there are too many reknowned filthy rich engineers .. I think a doctor's role is more autonomous compared to that of engineers.</p>
<p>If you argue in terms of money, I think doctor has it harder. But if you talk about the risk, engineers have it harder (engineering failure can kill more than one person).</p>
<p>I'd say engineer. It's much easier to become an engineer as opposed to a doctor, but if you're talking about getting a phd and going to nasa as opposed to just being some random md it's gotta be engineer hands down. Med school is relatively easy to get into (I'm not talking about top med schools, just in general) and as long as you can push yourself through the science classes you'll get in somewhere. Getting a top engineering job usually requires a phd from a top school, on top of a thesis etc. Just my 2 cents</p>
<p>How is it easy? Have you seen % acceptance rates?! For the general engineer, I guess once you get past the weeding out stage at a run of the mill state university that's accredited - you can have your bachelor's and get out?</p>
<p>
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How is it easy? Have you seen % acceptance rates?! For the general engineer, I guess once you get past the weeding out stage at a run of the mill state university that's accredited - you can have your bachelor's and get out?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Seriously? I'm not talking about usf/hopkins med here...there are hundreds if not thousands of med schools in the US and, unlike most professions, you can get a job from almost any recognized med school. A 3.0 + 28 can get you into plenty of schools, all of which will get you a job as an MD upon graduation. </p>
<p>Also, the general engineer isn't working at top spots in NASA. You're gonna need a phd for that, and a very good one.</p>