Is Law School really worth it?

Graduate School Law School
1

I just transferred to UCLA with a 4.0 grade point average in one year, and after deliberating with my UCLA advisor, I found that I should be in a position to graduate this year without overloading (16 units a quarter). This puts me at two years of university total. I was able to do this with an excess of AP units, and by taking 45 units at my CC, so I really only have 4 quarters left (graduating this summer, 2017). Next year, as a graduate, I plan on studying for the LSAT (I have been scoring 165-168s on practices with no study, although I have taken a course in logic); and traveling across Europe and Asia, while applying to law schools.

I’m no genius, or anything. I’m just incredibly lucky, and know how to work my butt off. I’m the type of student who is willing to work twice as hard as the smartest kids in the class just to meet them there at the top–but this was me competing against community college students.

I’m prepared to work my butt off at UCLA as well, but I’m scared. I’ve met brilliant graduates who are now struggling for employment–and they too have majored in a social science (political science, Jewish studies, psychology). I’m absolutely terrified of the idea of working $17.50 an hour as a graduate. It’s too late, I believe, to do pre-med, and I’m quite sure that I would not be able to succeed in courses such as organic chemistry, calculus II, etc… I’ve taken AP Chemistry, and struggled through it miserably.

I don’t like school. I’m not an academic, which is why I plan on finishing this year instead of dragging it out. But albeit this, I do have my life together. I’ve played around and profited from some business ideas this summer, I’m paying almost nothing to attend school because of a generous grant, I have a long term girlfriend that I couldn’t imagine breathing without, and I have dreams (but don’t we all? Lol).

Is law school really worth it? I’ve been spending my afternoon researching the prospects of attending T7 schools like NYU, Columbia and Harvard (if I would be lucky enough to get admitted, ermaged). But I’ve also run into a countless number of articles pitting law schools as one of the greatest systematic cons in the nation; that I would have to graduate within the top 10% of my class at UChicago to work at a big time firm. And if I don’t do big law, I would probably have to get into non-profit, or work hourly at a small firm. Is any of this true?

I want to be a litigator. But more importantly, I just don’t want to live a “normal” life. I don’t want to sound like a jerk, but I’ve always pictured more for myself. I’ve always wanted to be the next Steve Jobs or Elon Musk, or the next great adventurer, professor, or a TV personality. I have a direction, but for the most part, I just want to be somebody.

If not law, what can I actually do with my degree (political science)? I would rather not be a 19-year-old with a college degree living with his parents until he’s old enough to be entrusted with a real, a big boy salary and real, big boy obligations. From my experience, young students my age are usually academics—planning on obtaining a PhD and working in academia. But that isn’t me.

I really don’t see myself spending another year at UCLA. If I were still a sophomore right now, honestly, I would probably think about dropping out. It’d really be 50/50. After a gap year, I would invite the challenge of law school. But I can’t see myself being in school for 6-7 years total.

If anyone could help me, by giving me any insight, recommendations, etc… please do (:

2

Not true. As noted in the article below, the T14 place plenty of students into Big Law. (But yes, many law schools are not worth attending.)

The survey below is just top 100 law firms by size, but there are a few hundred more that pay big law salaries. For example Northwestern Law (~#12) places about 67% of its class into Big Law + another 5-6% in federal clerkships (litigator wannabes go after these). Total ~70%+ with an excellent outcome.

http://www.americanlawyer.com/id=1202752467164/Best-Law-Schools-for-Jobs-and-Prestige?slreturn=20160810202827

That being said, if you hate school, I’m not sure you are ready for professional school. LS in particular can be a real grind, even for those that “like” college.

3

@bluebayou Thank you so, so much for the help (:

I fell trap to the “screw the establishment” articles. It can be overwhelming to read article after article bashing law school as a means to a viable career.

Is it true that only T-7s are worth it? Could going to UCLA Law or UC Berkeley Law (or schools ranked around there) be worth it without a scholarship? Or should I be in the mindset of T-7 or bust?

Also, do you (or does anyone) know if professional schools will hold me in contempt due to my limited time in school? Or alternately, would they be impressed? I’ve heard that employers might like it, as it could give them a false impression of some kind of brilliance…but would law schools also see it like that? I’m taking three years worth of courses in two (90 semester units in two years), by the way; not two years in two. I didn’t get too many units from high school or anything.

4

Just wondering, let’s say the top 20 schools that send over 25% of their graduating classes to big firms average at, mean, 40% going to big 100 law, and have an average (mean) graduating class size of of 600.

Wouldn’t that mean there’d need to be 4,800 new lawyer jobs opening at big law firms every year? That just seems way too high. That’d mean that every year, a big 100 would have to, on average, hire 48 new lawyers for that number to make sense. Could it also be possible that many firms just hire new lawyers for a few years, and then dump most of them (promote the absolute best and brightest)? And then hire new lawyers again? So that basically through natural selection, they end up getting only the best and the brightest to make up their law firm? While also recruiting young people who are still willing to work night and day like horses?

5

Have you looked at public policy programs? UCLA has the Luskin School of Public Affairs. Some MPPs get jobs working for governments, but others work for nonprofits or consulting firms. Some of the top programs are at Harvard, Princeton, Chicago, Indiana etc. You would to demonstrate an interest in policy to get in, naturally.

6

@solofish If you intend to go to law school, my advice is to do some research on contract attorney positions. When researching law schools and looking at their placement rates look into where their graduates are accepting positions. With the high number of firms that hire contract attorneys to work on a per project basis to avoid any unnecessary overhead, you will discover that many law schools are reporting high career placement rates which include these hourly contract attorney positions. Law schools are churning out JDs at a rate higher than the market can handle. These contractors graduate, have bills, accept hourly contract positions to survive and then a year later they can’t get interviews because a new class of graduates has been churned out. To have a chance at a true legal career, you will need to go to a school that has connections to get you in the door and be at the top of your class. It’s a much tougher road for your generation. Personally, I wouldn’t let my son go to law school unless it was a true passion and dream of his. Off the top of my head I can think of three very bright, talented young attorneys who are all back in school pursuing a new degree because after 3-5 years of not getting the legal training and mentoring a new attorney requires, they are trying to start over. Law school is expensive and now they are enduring additional student loans to try to start a new career path.

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@CheddarcheeseMN Public policy really isn’t my thing. Power to people who are passionate about clean water and city budgeting, but that’s just not me.

@paveyourpath This is exactly what I was worried of. Darn. I’m a competitive guy, but I’m not looking for those kinds of odds. It sounds like I’d need to be in the top 10% of a T-7, really. If I’m betting 100 grand (tuition) it sounds like I’d almost be better off just playing a round of baccarat.

Is there any way to lock a position at a top law firm before entering law school? Maybe getting a law firm to cover a substantial portion of my tuition at a T-7, and in return, I get signed to work for them X years minimum? Sounds like a win win. But I don’t know if such deals exist given there are so many great students already in T-7 schools starving for post-law employment.

Does anyone know if an MBA would be a good idea? I may have a decent job lined up after college at a non-profit, I’m not completely sure yet (30/70 :/). If I work there for two years, took the GMAT, and finished a top MBA program, could I find viable work in a completely different field? Like tech? My dream has been to do business or law (or business law) in Sillicon Valley. Competitive for anyone, but is it doable? Can I just switch fields from non-profit to tech?

Again thank you so much for taking precious time out of your day to help a stranger, everyone (: this has been so insightful. I know a lot of seniors are worried about employment…so you could imagine how stressed out I am because I only graduated HS last year, lol.

8

Why not work on your business ideas?

9

Moved

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The short answer is that unless you are from a wealthy family, paying sticker at any LS is a really bad idea. UCLA/USC could be good choice for someone who work in LA and if the school provides a nice scholarship.

(btw: T7 is not a thing; T6, yes, and T14.)

No professional school prefers younger students.

In general, most of the turnover in Big Law is voluntary. Folks leave Big Law for all kinds of reasons: smaller legal markets, quality of life, government jobs, in-house corporate, nonprofits, etc.

11

I was thinking about that @PurpleTitan . I was just thinking about that right now. It wouldn’t even need such a large investment. I guess I’m just scared of moving back home for a year while I launch it (them). It could work, I believe I have the networks.

If I put all my eggs in my idea(s), and it doesn’t work, would I be in a disadvantage while looking for work? Would employers ask what I’ve been doing 1-2 years after graduating? Would it hurt me to basically say I failed?

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@bluebayou So going to a law school is generally worth it? If it’s T-6?

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It sounds like you’ve got narcissistic entitlement issues and are just grasping at straws.

If you can barely tolerate going to school, then a competitive law school sounds like a poor choice of career path.

14

@PrimeMeridian Sounds to me like you enjoy inflating your ego by diagnosing people for writing about their dreams on a confidential forum. Were you trying to be offensive, or are you telling me I should expect less of myself?

Who wants to be a working ant, buddy?
Aren’t all people’s dreams grand?

15

The key is to find something that fits you well. “Just because” isn’t a good idea for going to law school. Get your degree from UCLA, but look how much entrepreneurs are celebrated in our current culture. How many have failed before?

You say that you don’t want to be a working ant. So how badly do you want to not be a working ant?

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Wow. Thank you so much for the advice, purple Titan!!

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That’s really inspiring (: you’re right, law school probably doesn’t fit me well. I’m young too. I don’t have any defendants, and I’m living at home. So if I fail, I learn. Thank you so, so much​:slight_smile::slight_smile::slight_smile::slight_smile:

18

Steve Jobs didn’t even finish college, and Elon Musk didn’t go to law school; therefore, law school was irrelevant to their success.

There are dreams, and there is denial. You’ve stated clearly that you hate school, and can’t see yourself doing school for 6-7 years total. So what then is even the point of putting law school on the table?

Go chase your dreams of greatness by some path you can tolerate.

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You’re right. Law probably isn’t right for me. And I’m still young, so if I fail, I have no defendants and I’m living at home. Worst case, I learn :slight_smile::slight_smile::slight_smile: That was really inspiring!! Thank you!!

20

Perhaps you come from a family of academics? The fact is that “young students” your age are not much different than those in the dark ages: 20-25% of entering Frosh are premed (until they get C’s), a % are law wannabes; many are business majors, a % engineers, future educators and nurses and the like.

Not sure who you have been hanging with, but academic types are way, way down on the list.

It you want to be a litigator then you have no choice but to attend LS. But again, attending LS is not a good idea for someone who does not like school.

Only if it is at a significant discount (or Yale). But grads of Duke, Cornell, Northwestern and others in the T14 do extremely well. Other top regionals can be a good deal. If you want to practice in Texas, attending UT-Austin probably makes more sense than Cornell Law, for example. Heck, for such persons, UT for cheap would beat Penn at sticker.