<p>ParentofIvyHope: every post I've ever read of yours has made me want to puke. I agree with other posts, you REALLY need help. I'm so glad you're not my parent.</p>
<p>POIH, where did you go to college?</p>
<p>Come on guys, give POIH some slack. Sure he's made some bold mistakes but let's be honest here, a lot of first generation parents tend to think the way he did at first.</p>
<p>At least note that he's taking some of our advice:</p>
<p>
I don't force opinions and she may be able to figure what is the right path to follow.
</p>
<p>This is far better than the parent who sits around and doesn't even bother to try and learn from his cognitive biases. I don't think a lot of asian parents would even say what POIH said above.</p>
<p>my parents say that all the time, but at the same time they also sneak in comments about how good becoming a doctor would be for the family. </p>
<p>a lot. </p>
<p>oh, first generation parents.</p>
<p>"What is pursue big time? She is not into lab research. She wants to do develop some automatic system. But I'm just unable to see how that is going to help her and it will take considerable time on her part."</p>
<p>Look into volunteer or intern positions at a local medical center or hospital. Perhaps even look into a lower income area clinic, and offer to help with their computer system. But, students that have passions DO put considerable time into them. And that is why the colleges look so favorably on them, these are students that have such an interest they are willing to make room in their life for them.</p>
<p>Many students and parents get the idea that perfect test scores are overwhelmingly important, to the point they are taking over tests they scored 770 on. Unfortunately, then it looks like their passion is standardized testing.</p>
<p>POIH - I'm glad to hear you say you want to try to back off a little, and to try convincing your wife to be less obsessed. My son goes to school with many, many kids like your daughter, and I worry about the pressure their parents put on them. Your daughter is doing great, but there's not any guaranty that she will continue on that path if she really feels it's your path, and not her own.</p>
<p>If she is a rising junior and you have already conditioned her to believe that her parents will be devastated if she doesn't get into an Ivy, just imagine the possibilities! What if she decides she's sick of it and wants to apply only to the UC system? (How bad would it be to go to Cal?) What if she cracks under the pressure and develops anoxeria or a mental disorder? Would you love her any less? Would you feel ashamed? If the answer is "no," I'm guessing your daughter would not believe you at this point. Please try to let go of this, at least a little bit, and let her live her life. If admissions officers are really looking for passion, as they all contend, I believe they mean a passion for learning, or for an activity, that comes from within. That's inconsistent with a life orchestrated by overly ambitious parents!</p>
<p>FWIW, my son scored 800 on Math II, but completely choked on Chem (660) by misunderstanding how many questions there were on the exam. Thank god he got 760 on Literature, so there are 2 good enough scores on SAT II's. If he wants to re-take Chem I'll give him my credit card and pay the fee, but there's no way I will ask him to do more than he feels like he needs to. It feels quite liberating not to think this is something I control! </p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>For Yale, a Chem 780 and IIC 770 are perfectly fine. But, I have to agree, the Math IIC 770 for Caltech doesn't look great, since the curve is very generous.</p>
<p>"CalTech is interesting as it takes 6 students directly into UCSD Medical program and that is what I think my D will be applying for at CalTech."</p>
<p>I don't want to burst your bubble, but the UCSF-Caltech program is <em>extremely</em> competitive and takes the absolute best of the Caltech accepted pool. Also, a thorough background in science research is mandatory, since the program's purpose is to train future physician-researchers...</p>
<p>"I don't want to burst your bubble, but the UCSF-Caltech program is <em>extremely</em> competitive and takes the absolute best of the Caltech accepted pool. Also, a thorough background in science research is mandatory, since the program's purpose is to train future physician-researchers..."</p>
<p>I know that and that is why the thread was started but some people are just too nice to say the truth. I know 770 on SATII Math 2C won't cut for CIT. I hope my D also realize that and take another shot at SAT II Math as she can do it and there is no harm in taking another chance.</p>
<p>I prefer to be on the earth with reality than in dreams, so would like my daughter to realize where she stands with her scores. It is a cruel world out there and there is no mercy for mistakes. One bad score and you may be out of contention.</p>
<p>For Caltech, the median accepted SAT II score is 800, and the average is not too far off from that (~795 or something ridiculous) so there aren't many low-scoring outliers. A 770 obviously is not a huge deal or anything, but it would be nice to see some form of ability in math (beyond SAT I) - something like AP scores in math, AMC score, AIME score, etc.. Without those, your D should probably to go back and hit an 800 on SAT II just so the admissions committee isn't as worried about handling core math.</p>
<p>The SAT II chem score is slightly below the median (something like ~785-790), but that's nothing to be worried about.</p>
<p>POIH, your post did not ask if the scores are too low for Cal Tech, but you were asking for Ivies(at least that is what the post title). For Cal Tech, I think if the student didn't get high Math scores the first time, don't bother to attend this school. If there is a true score on Math (no cap at 800), the Cal Tech students would come in about 1000.
MIT might be different.</p>
<p>TooRichForAid : "POIH, your post did not ask if the scores are too low for Cal Tech, but you were asking for Ivies(at least that is what the post title). For Cal Tech, I think if the student didn't get high Math scores the first time, don't bother to attend this school. If there is a true score on Math (no cap at 800), the Cal Tech students would come in about 1000."</p>
<p>Actually I consider Stanford/MIT/CIT as good as HYP so I never thought I would need to specify them separately. But thanks for the feedback. I don't think D is low on math but will come to know after July 7th. She took AP calc BC in her 10th grade and if she score 5 then it still may make sense to go back and take a shot at SAT II Math if not then she is out of CIT contention anyway.</p>
<p>But I do understand from most of the replies that she might not be good fit if she is not passionate about math. Just being good at math may not cut it at Cal Tech.</p>
<p>cghen:"For Caltech, the median accepted SAT II score is 800, and the average is not too far off from that (~795 or something ridiculous) so there aren't many low-scoring outliers. "</p>
<p>That is a myth too. I've posted the official slides from Cal Tech and the median score of the matriculated Cal Tech freshman have always been 780, so it is a myth that everyone would have scored 1000 on SAT II Math 2C without a cap.
A score of 770 is a bit low but not off the Cal Tech. I do realize that chances do decrease with a 770.</p>
<p>POIH, when I mean 1000 in Math, I don't mean to be accepted to Cal Tech, I mean to be succesfully there or not having low GPA. But not to scare your D too much.</p>
<p>TooRichForAid : I don't think my D get scared so easily but it is good to know about these things prior to the visit to Cal Tech. I'm planning to take her to their preview in July and will ask her to emphasize on "What it take to be successful at Cal Tech?” She can then make her mind about whether or not apply to Cal Tech.</p>
<p>POIH, those slides don't specify if they're presenting the average or the median scores, and judging from the statistics that I've seen, I'm pretty sure those are averages. I'll definitely still claim that the median SAT II is 800.</p>
<p>Also, those numbers are lower than what I stated (even for averages) because I was referring to accepted applicants, while your slides only discuss matriculated students, which are generally lower for most schools.</p>
<p>cghen:
"Also, those numbers are lower than what I stated (even for averages) because I was referring to accepted applicants, while your slides only discuss matriculated students, which are generally lower for most schools."</p>
<p>The accepted pool of student is always greater than matriculated pool. So the averages or the median can never be greater in case of accepted students over the matriculated one it can only be lower.</p>
<p>I'll ask my D to confirm it during the visit as it will be really important to know whether or not she will be successful if admitted.</p>
<p>"For Cal Tech, I think if the student didn't get high Math scores the first time, don't bother to attend this school." Your daughter may or may not get into Caltech. But when she is going to be in math classes with USAMO qualifiers and not able to get 800 she might as well forget Caltech-regardless of whether or not she gets in.</p>
<p>
I don't quite understand what you mean by 'the accepted pool of students is always greater than the matriculated pool', but it's easy to understand why matriculated statistics are lower than accepted statistics: </p>
<p>In general, students with higher scores are more likely to get into any one school, and so, statistically, the top scoring accepted applicants at Caltech will get into more schools besides Caltech. The more quality choices a student has, the less likely that he or she will enroll at any given one, and so the top applicants are more likely to enroll at other schools leaving the lower scoring students (who have fewer options) to matriculate more often. </p>
<p>Hence, the matriculated pool statistics usually (at the vast majority of schools) are lower for the simple reason that schools get better yield on the lower end of their applicant pools.</p>
<p>cghen:"Hence, the matriculated pool statistics usually (at the vast majority of schools) are lower for the simple reason that schools get better yield on the lower end of their applicant pools."</p>
<p>I don't agree with the statement that matriculated pool is worse than accepted pool. But for Cal Tech since it is a self selected pool of students and not everyone applies to Cal Tech hence the chances are that students who actually have less chance of success at Cal Tech choose MIT/Harvard/Stanford over Cal Tech and so leaving the matriculated pool even stronger as the accepted pool at MIT/Harvard/Stanford has a much lower SAT II Math scores.</p>
<p>You will probably get rejected from anywhere on the top 10 USNWR list. Most likely, they will send a slip, along with your rejection letter that says:</p>
<p>
[quote]
We are sorry, but your SAT II scores in the following subjects:</p>
<p>Chemistry
Math Level 2</p>
<p>indicated that your knowledge of these subjects is only in the top 10% of our student body. This is strong evidence of your mental deficiency and shows that you are most likely unable succeed in our intellectual environment. We wish you luck as you prepare to attend a second rate state university.</p>
<p>Best wishes,</p>
<p>Jane Doe</p>
<p>Dean of Undergraduate Admissions, top 10 National University.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This is a very standard letter. As a counselor, I see students receive this letter every spring. I think it may be part of the Common Application. </p>
<p>In any case, you should consider enrolling in remedial courses in these two subjects immediately, or scrap the idea of applying to the top schools in the first place. </p>
<p>Best of luck, </p>
<p>Fhqwgads2005 </p>
<p>A Real High School Guidance Counselor (RHSGC)</p>