Is there a difference between IUPUI and IU bloomington's kelley school of business ?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Indiana University - Bloomington
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<p>bthomp, Right now the entrance is higher at IUB but the washout is higher at IUPUI, Not going to speculate as to why. That is changing next year, mirroring IUB. </p>

<p>After meeting with the Dean and placement departments at both schools they SHARE the stats for placement and internships. The curriculum is the same. Except for some campus specific programs. IUB has a version of the IUPUI Honors Road-trip and vice versa.It’s just part of the IUB ICORE. </p>

<p>It’s also interesting that you continue to say say that Kelley students at IUPUI cant use the placement programs. That is in STARK contrast with what the placement department says at IUPUI. In fact the students get direct emails to invite them to events. I respectfully ask you to stop misleading people in this regard. It really doesn’t matter because the Internship placement is higher at IUPUI. Please ask the appropriate placement departments accordingly.</p>

<p>You said:
I am not trying to “brag” on IUB Kelley or “diss” IUPUI Kelley ugrad. I would just hate to see some OOS student fail to get into IUB and then transfer to IUPUI with the expectation that they can get comparable recruiting opportunities with national and regional firms through IUPUI’s career services offices that can be had in Bloomington (and no, IUPUI students are not allowed to use IUB’s career services and vice versa).</p>

<p>You ARE dissing IUPUI Kelley and I ask you to please stop. Your point is true that IUB reaches more National firms while IUPUI is more Midwest (Indy etc). The opportunities are statistically shared in terms of placement and salary, just not geography. I honestly cannot believe that you would encourage kids not to accept a direct admit to IUPUI Kelley in lieu of the hope of being one the “masses” at IUB. I remind you that there were 1200 direct admits a IUB and 120 at IUPUI. </p>

<p>Same curriculum, same stats. Less snooty unsubstantiated horn blowing at IUPUI. (much better freshman dorms too) JUST SAYING!!!</p>

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<p>Kelley in Bloomington is the better business school hands down. This is where the best companies recruit and where you’ll find the professors with the most impressive backgrounds. Sorry. IUPUI has its benefits and I’m sure you can find a good job after graduating from there but the opportunities at the Bloomington campus are by far the best (compared to the other campuses).</p>

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<p>“Less snooty unsubstantiated horn blowing”</p>

<p>Can anything in your posts be substantiated with reports/data/anything in print?</p>

<p>So your son is able to get into the USCO Kelley website as a student and browse jobs go to job interviews on the Bloomington campus? The rule in the recent past was that you had to be a full-time IUB student and other requirements, too, to use the IUB Kelley USCO (stated in the various rules shown after logging in as a student). I don’t see mention of IUPUI Kelley students in this list of levels to access of USCO services
<a href=“Undergraduate Career Services | Undergraduate Career Services | Indiana Kelley”>Undergraduate Career Services | Undergraduate Career Services | Indiana Kelley;

<p>" . . . Internship placement is higher at IUPUI." I agree with your statement without any documentation (IUPUI Kelley won’t publish theirs; I don’t buy that IUPUI’s Career Placement Office and IUB’s USCO pool their statistics in USCO’s annual report; if they are reported together, then USCO does an excellent job of hiding it; also, who can I IUPUI Kelley’s Career Placement Office annual report?), simply because the majority of IUPUI Kelley students are part-time and doing work/internships every semester they go to IUPUI Kelley. The average age of IUPUI Kelley students is 26 years old. At IUB Kelley it is probably 20-21. Where did I “brag” that internship placement was higher at IUB? I never said that. My son could not get an internship through IUB one summer and contacted their Career Placement Office, since we live near Indy, and they said it was for IUPUI students only. He wound up getting an internship via IUPUI’s general job board, when I found him a summer internship after registering as an IUPUI grad from years ago. </p>

<p>They are both good programs. Based on available, published, online, in-annual reports, etc. job placement stats, I am sticking to my guess that IUB has much better national recruiting opportunities. This thread started with an OOS poster asking about the merits of the two programs. In my opinion, IUPUI’s out of state cost of attendance of at least $45,000 per year (including $15,970 full time tuition/fees per semester plus $600 per semester ugrad business fee) is a ridiculous amount to pay for a Kelley IUPUI degree.
<a href=“IUPUI”>IUPUI;
<a href=“Paying for College: Student Central: Indiana University Bloomington”>Paying for College: Student Central: Indiana University Bloomington;

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<p>“I honestly cannot believe that you would encourage kids not to accept a direct admit to IUPUI Kelley in lieu of the hope of being one the “masses” at IUB. I remind you that there were 1200 direct admits a IUB and 120 at IUPUI.”</p>

<p>???</p>

<p>Goodkidsdad, anybody who tries to get into IUB Kelley and fails can apply to IUPUI Kelley and probably easily get accepted if he is at all a serious student. All the student would need to apply is an overall gpa higher than 2.0 (including the courses he took at IUB) and to get a solid C or higher in K201 and W131 (or an equivalent, even from Ivy Tech). He will still get into IUPUI Kelley as an Option II admit if he fails to get standard admit to IUB Kelley. </p>

<p>Please tell me the downside to trying for standard admit to IUB Kelley if you are ultimately willing to get your Kelley degree from IUPUI and you can use the IUB courses to get into IUPUI Kelley’s program? </p>

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<p>Most students are no longer commuters. They were 10 years ago. Granted it is more than IUB. I saw another post just saying that Bloomington is a much better school. I am not trying to argue here. Just trying to keep,it real. There is a criteria for direct admit and has nothing to do with a 2.0 average that you have mentioned before. So where are you getting that. </p>

<p>Again. Same curriculum. Same Dean. Same classes. Yet IUB is better?</p>

<p>The OOS guy could have got a full tuition scholarship,with a 29"ACT at iupui. Sorry…better option for this kid.</p>

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<p>It is kind of pointless to even talk about out of state students at IUPUI, since they make up only 2.47% of all undergraduates, compared to 29.38% at IUB.
<a href=“Indiana University”>Indiana University; </p>

<p>The 2.0 gpa is in reference to Option II admit. (“He will still get into IUPUI Kelley as an Option II admit if he fails to get standard admit to IUB Kelley.”) You only need a 2.0 to apply for Option II admission per the IUPUI Kelley bulletin. See post #29 above. In other words, if you aim for IUB Kelley and don’t get in, you will breeze into IUPUI as an Option II admit with your 2.0+ overall gpa. Or, you can just to to Ivy Tech for two years and get an associates degree with a 2.5 minimum gpa plus four pre-Icore classes at IUPUI per this IUPUI Kelley page, which includes the warning: Important Note “This transfer agreement is extended by the Kelley School of Business Indianapolis campus only.”<br>
<a href=“Transfer Students | Bachelor's Degree in Business | Kelley Indianapolis”>Transfer Students | Bachelor's Degree in Business | Kelley Indianapolis;

<p>IUB Kelley must not know that they and IUPUI Kelley are “Same curriculum. Same Dean. Same classes”; otherwise, the 2.5 overall gpa Ivy Tech students would be getting into Kelley Bloomington, too.</p>

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<p>I’m not saying they’re the same program or even equal, but one thing I think nobody has considered is the fact that perhaps more people WANT to get into IU Bloomington than IUPUI. If that is the case, of course IU is going to make it more difficult to get into the more popular school…even if it isn’t better. I started out at USI…(completely different animal), but I’ve since taken classes at IU and IUPUI. They weren’t in business, but I did notice a difference. I took the first two semesters of German at IUPUI. I had to memorize everything and all testing was done IN CLASS. The teachers created their own syllabus and have the flexibility to adjust as needed. The next two semesters of German were taken at IUB. While IUPUI was closer, I had scheduling conflicts with my job that required the drive to Bloomington in order to continue. The syllabi at IUB were cookie cutter. Each session had nearly identical syllabi. The teachers clearly did not design their own course plans like at IUPUI, and the tests were almost a joke. Part 1 of the test was done in class. It was more of a short quiz. I would usually memorize all my vocabulary words in about 20 minutes before class. Part 2, the longer part, was taken home. Open book. Open note. We weren’t supposed to get help from anyone or use a translator. Other than that, we could use whatever reference we needed. Honestly, I believe I learn better from the IUPUI approach. However, I do prefer the IUB campus in a lot of outside of class ways (longer library hours, better food choices, prettier campus). And there are more course choices at IUB. Still, scheduling is always a factor. The first time around at IUPUI, I wasn’t working anywhere full-time. I was able to take my first two classes during the day. The intermediate level was only available during the day at IUPUI, and I needed to take it in the evening. So, I went to IUB. The advanced courses are available in the evening at IUPUI, but not at IUB. So, for several reasons I am back at IUPUI, and I am happy enough with that.</p>

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<p>macfan14. You highlighted one primary issues with IUB versus IUPUI. IUB has primarily decorated academics, very well known and published. But most have NEVER really been in business. The adjunct and Honors professors at IUPUI are entrepreneurs, high level managers or have 10+ years in business. They kinda fly by the seat of their pants sometimes, but its is around things that actually happen. </p>

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<p>Now the full time student body is 72% at IUPUI, Enrollment, applications and talent is jumping big time. Granted it is catching up with IUB. But the gap is not only closing but more and more talented kids are choosing IUPUI over IUB. My son did. He had the same offer both places.</p>

<p>btomp is correct that most kids are from Indiana. But a greater number are from other countries. It’s interesting that the kids who would actually have access to visit both campuses are choosing IUPUI more often.</p>

<p>Read this. And notice the web site is an IU website.</p>

<p><a href=“http://go.iu.edu/dEp”>http://go.iu.edu/dEp&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>–btomp is correct that most kids are from Indiana. But a greater number are from other countries. It’s interesting that the kids who would actually have access to visit both campuses are choosing IUPUI more often.–</p>

<p>Don’t see how a greater number from other countries is choosing IUPUI more often than IUB. In the most recent common data sets</p>

<p>IUB: 3,706 international student undergrads
IUPUI: 786 international student undergrads
<a href=“Indiana University”>Indiana University;

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<p>All I said is more students at IUPUI are international than before. The most recent news has some pretty good stuff to say about IUPUI and mentions this topic.</p>

<p>Growing enrollment, stretch for housing because of demand, academic excellence, first year programs, smaller classes, etc.</p>

<p>Again, kids that live close and can go to both campuses. A greater amount of these kids are seeing benefits of IUPUI and choosing Indianapolis over Bloomington. Not me saying it!! It’s a fact. Look at the growth.</p>

<p>It is true that more Indiana kids are going to IUPUI. I wonder why? It wouldn’t be because they have visited both would it? The Kelley LLC (McNutt) at IUB doesn’t compare to a completely revamped 4 star hotel. And at IUPUI the farthest class is 2 blocks away.</p>

<p>Again, same curriculum.</p>

<p><a href=“News at IU”>News at IU;

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<p>How do you know that these kids are choosing IUPUI over IUB? There is no statistic available that says X number of students ranked IUPUI higher than IUB, an increase of Y% over 2013.</p>

<p>Growth doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with students actually choosing IUPUI over IUB. That growth could be caused by:
-demographic growth (a bigger pool of students going to college = bigger numbers = growth by default)
-increased numbers of disadvantaged students going to college (more of these in Indy than Btown)
-growth of students starting at IUPUI for 1-2 years to save money and transferring to IUB
-growth of students starting at IUPUI for 1-2 years and transferring to any other school
-growth of students matriculating at IUPUI and not graduating from IUPUI</p>

<p>Correlation =/= causation. I’m still not seeing any concrete data to reinforce your claims. Honestly, I suspect your claims are completely bogus and the true driver is finances, if even that.</p>

<p>IUPUI offered me significant financial incentives for undergrad and I turned it down for IUB because the incredible opportunities there were worth the in-state tuition.</p>

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<p>Those are good questions soccergurl. The increasing number of credit hours is part-and-parcel of many factors. Maybe including some of the things you mentioned above. But it’s primarily because more kids are choosing IUPUI, not necessarily over IUB, but just more kids than before are picking IUPUI. And there is an obvious shift from part-time to full time over the past years. There is huge empirical data for this.Try not to be so sensitive please.</p>

<p>So, my son went through an orientation with all (about 24) of the Kelley Honors students. All of them were Directly admitted to IUB and IUPUI. Got admittance scholarships at both schools (refuting your finances claim) . Most of them were Honors quality students at both schools. Almost all of them live in Indiana and had the resources to visit both schools and did so. All of these kids picked IUPUI Kelley </p>

<p>Bottom-line i am just saying the gap is closing and for some reason there are more and more kids thinking the IUPUI campus is a cool place. That’s all the above article is saying. </p>

<p>It very well could be the stark contrast of how these kids were treated on their visits. Again, we were treated politely but coldly at IUB. At Kelley IUPUI we had lunch with the Dean and the staff and professors were engaged in trying to get my talented son to go there. And the obvious difference between the KLLC, McNutt (dump) and the Tower at IUPUI (beautiful).The academics notwithstanding. These things had quite an impact on my son.</p>

<p>So, 24 of the most talented kids in Indiana chose IUPUI over IUB for many reasons. Fit. Finances. Feel. And the dynamic nature of IUPUI . The empirical data that I stake my personal claims is a small “N”. But it is indicative of a shift. At least you can admit that! </p>

<p>Again. Same curriculum!</p>

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<p>Goodkidsdad - It sounds like your son is doing well at Kelley IUPUI and has no regrets. That is what every parent hopes for so congrats! Having 24 talented students choose IUPUI over IUB is a feather in IUPUI’s cap however I don’t think you can say these 24 students would have been Kelley Honors students at IUB. Kelley IUB selection occurs at the end of freshman year and is based upon GPA, leadership and professor recommendations. It is incredibly competitive. The 24 IUPUI were admitted based upon their HS performance. At IUB the HS performance/ACT scores/extra-curriculars have no bearing. </p>

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<p>Wistfull. You are correct. I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to diminish the Honors program at IUB. I was trying to paint the picture that these kids had options. I know that IUB Kelley Honors is elite and I’m not saying my kid would have got there. But these kids I refer to were certainly capable or close to it. I know some had full rides at other good schools etc. Mine did.</p>

<p>I am just hoping to stop some of the broad, sweeping and inappropriate dissing of the IUPUI program. I graduated from Bloomington and got hired right off campus so I know the power of that degree. I just see an improving, dynamic program that is closing the gap on IUB. Not there yet in aggregate, but gaining ground. Those that do really well at IUPUI Kelley will do better than anywhere else except maybe IUB in Indiana. (Affording Notre Dame is an issue). </p>

<p>Next year the admittance criteria gets tougher at IUPUI. Not sure to what extent, but demand begets quality. That is why IUB has such high standards. High demand+ High quality= High Standards. So, many talented kids are choosing IUPUI that same thing is beginning to happening. If you can get a direct admit from IUPUI or (like you said) are admitted into the Honors college at IUPUI. You should at least look at it. </p>

<p>Graduating with a Kelley Honors Degree is powerful. Even at IUPUI!</p>

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<p>Goodkidsdad - You say 24 Kelley honors kids chose IUPUI over Bloomington and had academic scholarships at both, thereby refuting the finances claim. That does nothing to refute the finances claim. Firstly, IUPUI is less expensive than Bloomington - just factoring in tuition and room and board, depending on the program you are in - it is cheaper by $2,000 to $3,000/year. In addition, I believe the top IUPUI academic scholarship this past year was $8,000/year (in-state kids) and the very top IUB scholarship was $6,000, and that only went to the kids with the top scores, and those scores were higher than the requirements at IUPUI which merited the automatic $8K scholarship. The salutatorian of my daughter’s 2014 class this year (at a top academic, very competitive, very large public school) got a measly $2,000 from IUB because she just couldn’t get her SAT up. But she got the top scholarship at IUPUI. My daughter had a very close circle of 9 other friends and all 9 of her friends chose IUPUI. 7 of the 9 got the top academic scholarship at IUPUI as well as other scholarships and the other 2 got athletic scholarships. Only 1 of those kids was eligible for the highest scholarship in Bloomington ($6,000). In addition, the salutatorian also chose IUPUI. Why? Without fail, it was money related. It all boiled down to finances. That’s 10 kids I KNOW who chose IUPUI for money reasons. I don’t know why those 24 kids you mention chose IUPUI, but I would bet finances played a major role in enticing them initially. Their parents probably persuaded them to visit by saying please look at IUPUI, its the same degree, and its so much more practical and you won’t have to take on debt.Then they visited and IUPUI pumped themselves up as all admissions offices do and got the kids fired up about going. Heck, I asked my daughter to take a look at IUPUI since she probably would have had a full ride and all her friends were going there. She looked at me like I was insane and said she didn’t bust her butt all of high school to go to IUPUI. That may sound snobby or whatever to you, but it’s also very truthful about the perspective of IUPUI in Indiana.</p>

<p>Now, that said, IUPUI was smart this past year to have offered more money to students than IUB. They got some high caliber kids as a result. The salutatorian I mentioned would have done well at Harvard - hard-working and smart, and she will be a credit to IUPUI, as will many of my daughters’ friends and it sounds, like your child as well. Their admission stats will improve, which I’m sure will look good for many. And bringing in more high performing students will definitely improve the school all around, eventually. I think it would be premature on their part to increase their scholarship standards now. If they become comparable in cost to Bloomington, IUPUI becomes a much tougher sell.</p>

<p>Lastly, my oldest daughter did a CPA internship this past summer along with an intern from IUPUI. He went to Ivy Tech his first two years, then transferred and was accepted to IUPUI Kelley with a GPA between 2.0 and 2.5. He still gets B’s and C’s at IUPUI. He never would have been accepted to Bloomington’s Kelley. So how exactly did he get an internship, you may ask? He knew someone at the office and they used their influence to get him it. It wasn’t because of IUPUI’s placement office. My daughter said he was constantly bragging about how much better IUPUI’s Kelley was over Bloomington. Not sure why he felt the need to do so. My daughter got the last word though the other day when the US News undergrad business rankings came out. IU - BLOOMINGTON ranked #8. (IU likes to refer to it as Kelley got ranked 8th, probably in an effort to bring up their other locations as well, but if you look at the ranking, it was specific to Bloomington). I did see IUPUI moved up to 194 overall in national universities and 7th in up and coming nation universities.</p>

<p>Anyway - my main point to you is that money is a big factor in the decision. </p>

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<p>It is relatively easy to get accepted into IUPUI Kelley honors program. Every entering freshman acepted to the regular honors IUPUI gets accepted to IUPUI Kelley honors if they want to major in business. All you need is </p>

<p>“Incoming Freshmen Students who have completed a rigorous program of study in secondary school, maintained a GPA of 3.75 or better, and have an ACT composite score of 28 or an SAT critical reading and math combined score of 1250 or higher are automatically offered admission to the IUPUI Honors College once they are admitted to IUPUI.”</p>

<p>IUPUI Honors requirements are less than what it takes to be a direct admit to IUB Kelley. For many, getting automatic IUPUI Kelley honors by being accepted to IUPUI honors is probably preferable to going to IUB and having to apply to Kelley as a standard admit and risk not even getting accepted.</p>

<h2>Also, compare IUB Hutton Honors minimum stats for admission to IUPUI honors school.</h2>

<p>By Invitation: For Fall 2015, students admitted to IU-Bloomington will be automatically invited (to Hutton) if they meet one of the following sets of criteria:</p>

<p>31 ACT or 1360-1380 SAT and 3.95 or top 5% class rank
32-33 ACT or 1390-1460 SAT and 3.90 GPA or top 7.5% class rank
34-36 ACT or 1470+ SAT and 3.85 GPA or top 10% class rank</p>

<h2>Huge difference in the two schools’ freshman honors admissions stats.</h2>

<p>IUB used higher guaranteed scholarships to build the entire university’s stats beginning around 2006, and their SAT/ACT averages climbed dramatically relative to other Big Ten schools. IUPUI now appears to be using the same method, and I am sure IUPUI will show dramatic strides in the next few years. </p>

<p>I agree with Goodkidsdad that business majors get a more well-rounded education at IUPUI, since IUB has such a weak gen ed requirement these days. IUB has more accomplished COAS professors, but it is easy now to just take extra business classes and reap practical benefits from those rather than to take engaging liberal arts classes.</p>

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<p>MichHoos. You are absolutely right that there was a financial component to this but not that much. My son got 8K per year plus a travel abroad stipend at IUPUI and 6K per year at IUB. He definitely got more from IUPUI . But, I had made sure that my 529 plan was ready for either. </p>

<p>He also thought IUPUI was a better fit for him. When he asked us, we said the same thing. He was really treated like a Prince at IUPUI Kelley, and quite coolly frankly at IU. That matters when you are 18 and overwhelmed. </p>

<p>Fit. Finances. Feel. </p>

<p>Thanks for your accounts in your post. You are very real in your perspective.</p>

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<p>MichHoos. I meant to address or clear up what I meant by increasing standards. I was referring to the Kelley School looking to increase direct admit standards. I don’t know about Incoming Freshman scholarships. Sorry for the confusion.</p>

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<p>Bthomp. You are absolutely correct that IUB has a much higher admission criteria for both the Kelley and Honors program. Due again to High Quality + High demand = High Standards. IMHO IU Kelley is the best Business school (non private) around. On many fronts surpasses Michigan.</p>

<p>I also think we are finding common ground that IUPUI is starting to see a similar trend in attracting stronger students. Actively recruiting (like with my son) and the scholarship money is meaningful. </p>

<p>You were SPOT on with one of the determining factors with my son was going into the Kelley program as an Honors Scholar. Today (3rd week of school) the Honors kids are putting on their suits and going to the local Merrill Lynch Branch for a Business review and visit. This group is lead by a top Indianapolis Based entrepreneur who is the long term adjunct professor.</p>

<p>Knowing right away that he would for sure graduate with a Kelley Honors degree meant a lot to him. Even if it is from IUPUI.</p>

<p>Just so the CC Board knows. Anyone accepting the Chancellors Scholarship at IUPUI is the Honors college at IUPUI upon admittance. Because the scholarships don’t come from the school per say, they come from the Honors College. If you don’t meet academic and behavioral standards while in school , you lose your scholarship. While the criteria is lower at IUPUI there is no waiting and freshman form a core group from day one.</p>