Is there a difference between IUPUI and IU bloomington's kelley school of business ?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Indiana University - Bloomington
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<p>Michhoos. Respectfully, I want to make sure I address this. Ask anyone at IUB and they will tell you that these good rankings apply only to IUB. I have read many posts that sound like this:</p>

<p>“My daughter got the last word though the other day when the US News undergrad business rankings came out. IU - BLOOMINGTON ranked #8. (IU likes to refer to it as Kelley got ranked 8th, probably in an effort to bring up their other locations as well, but if you look at the ranking, it was specific to Bloomington). I did see IUPUI moved up to 194 overall in national universities and 7th in up and coming nation universities”.</p>

<p>All Rankings for Kelley are inclusive of both campuses. Especially the US News Rankings. They are based on responses from other academics and do not differentiate between the 2 campuses. They are responding to questions about curriculum, outcomes and other course related items. Our lunch with the Dean at IUPUI confirmed this. The ranking for IU overall is independent of that. But when you refer to Kelley it means both campuses. Dean Kesner ( the Kelley Dean) refers to this often. She may refer to initiatives at the Bloomington campus or Masters Programs accomplishments at Indianapolis but the aggregate outcome data and Rankings are ALWAYS referring to both campuses.</p>

<p>They are the same school. Located on 2 campuses. This thread has already hashed out the entrance differences, Honors differences etc. But the overall ending result is impressive.</p>

<p>You also mentioned about bringing up other locations with the rankings. There are only 2 locations for Kelley.</p>

<p>If you go to the Kelley website and hover over Programs you will see the entire portfolio of programs. Including Bloomington and Indianapolis campuses.</p>

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<p>Read these links and see what your take away is for this.</p>

<p>Kesner: The overall Dean.</p>

<p><a href=“http://kelley.iu.edu/About/welcome/welcome.html”>http://kelley.iu.edu/About/welcome/welcome.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Cochran: In charge of Indianapolis Programs and reports to Kesner.</p>

<p><a href=“IUPUI”>IUPUI;

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<p>Goodkidsdad - the rankings apply to Bloomington only according to the Kelley website:</p>

<p><a href=“http://kelley.iu.edu/About/Rankings/rankings.html”>http://kelley.iu.edu/About/Rankings/rankings.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>They specify which rankings apply to which Kelley campus, eg. Evening MBA - INDIANAPOLIS, Undergraduate business - BLOOMINGTON.</p>

<p>Also, I attended the University of Michigan. The first year I was in Ann Arbor, but I felt guilty about costing my parents so much money (I have many brothers and sisters), so I voluntarily attended the Dearborn campus my second year. It was close to home, so I could commute. I worked three jobs, took a full load of classes, set the curve in many of my classes, got straight A’s, hardly had to study and saved up to return to Ann Arbor. I was accepted to their business school and given a full ride when I returned to Ann Arbor. After acing Macro and Micro in Dearborn, I got a generously curved B- on my first econ quiz in the business school. Why? The competition was far more rigorous and the expectations of the professor were much higher given the higher caliber students there. You can say what you want about the stated curriculum, but IUPUI accepts students from community college with a 2.0 GPA. There will be a difference. I’m proof.</p>

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<p>With all due respect to the contributors to this thread, I respectfully submit that THIS HORSE IS DEAD and in no need of further beatings. :-SS </p>

<p>Well, maybe just one more flog…</p>

<p>Let’s set aside all the stats and arguments brought forth here since no one on the outside gives a tinkers @#$% about that stuff. You’re getting a business degree so you can get a job, and the cold cruel business world cares precious little that you are well-rounded in the liberal arts anymore. I mourn that fact, but it is the world we’ve created.</p>

<p>As someone who has hired people over the last 30+ years who’ve attended just about every top college in the world, I can tell you no “extension” or “urban” campus will ever garner the same respect from hiring managers no matter how valid the claims of equal (or better) curriculum might be to those in the know. I know that’s not fair, but it is a fact. </p>

<p>Moreover, all the stats mean little when you’ve never even heard of a school. I can not recall ever having seen IUPUI on even one of the thousands of resumes I have reviewed. I knew IUPUI existed only because of having been to Indy a bunch and having seen friends in other industries hire folks from IUPUI for medical positions. Not a scientific poll by any means, but a valid data point nonetheless.</p>

<p>If you are seeking the more recognized and respected acronym for your resume as a new business school grad, there is no question which way you should go. Of course, that’s no way to choose a school, but it does matter when you’re resume is screened out before you get the chance to convince someone IUPUI-Kelley is just as good (or the same) as IU-Kelley.</p>

<p>That’s life, get over your bad self and make the most of the cards you hold after you choose the school you liked most when you were 17. Once employed, your work experience will set you apart and your undergraduate degree will fade into the background where few people will care outside of Ivy League snobs banging their class rings on desks.</p>

<p>Notwithstanding my new addition to the ■■■■■ bait reservoir, I am hopeful this thread goes back to the archives and dies the ignoble death it deserves since it is of dubious value to anyone seriously considering these schools.</p>

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<p>Michhoos. I saw that ranking. It’s true that much of the undergrad accolades focused on Bloomington and the MBA programs are primarily referring to Indianapolis. But there is a distinct difference between going to a Kelley school and going to IU South Bend or IPFW.</p>

<p>Again, there are only 2 campuses for Kelley. Bloomington and Indianapolis. Not sure about the 2.0 analogy you make. According to the information we have been provided, those students would not be in the school at all.</p>

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<p>Thaumaturge. You can turn a phrase and I appreciate it. A bit bombastic, but lyrical . Your post is SPOT on in regard to what happens to your education as you progress in your career. </p>

<p>I agree that a lot of people have no idea about IUPUI and Kelley or any of the over 200+ degrees you can get. But that does nothing to diminish the education you get.</p>

<p>Please review as well the post above and the links where the Deans talk about the Kelley campuses. It’s awfully hard to say that IUPUI is considered an extension program. Not once are the eluded to in that way.</p>

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<p>Goodkidsdad, IUPUI Kelley does not publish internship and full-time hiring statistics on their Career Services website, except for full-time salary by major. IUPUI has no figures for percentage of grads hired, what state or region they will work in, number of graduates in each major, etc., despite the fact that they have a link for employers to report their hires to IUPUI Kelley Career Services.</p>

<p>Here are class of 2013 full-time beginning salaries for grads of IUB/IUPUI ugrad program.</p>

<p>Accounting IUB $57,000 // IUPUI $46,303
Finance IUB $57,000 // IUPUI $46,027
Marketing IUB $50,000 // IUPUI $39,345
Supply Chain IUB $55,00 // IUPUI $43,700</p>

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<p>Bthomp: great point. If you look at the reach of IU and IUPUI Kelley the greatest proportion of students come from Chicago suburbs for IU versus IUPUI is mainly Indiana kids.</p>

<p>Here are the stats from the Kelley Website. Look at the Indy ranges. Exactly what you would expect. Trust me a kid does better with 46k in Indy than 60k in New York or Chicago.</p>

<p>"The Class of 2013 accepted employment offers in 29 states, the District of Columbia, and 5 countries worldwide. While the greatest concentration of graduates is in the Midwest, there are many Kelley graduates working in Florida, Georgia, Texas, and California, as well as the top cities shown below.</p>

<p>For complete information about where students accepted employment, download the UCSO Annual Report."</p>

<p>Location Kelley Average Salary Range
Chicago, Illinois $59,570 $30,000–$73,000
Indianapolis, Indiana $45,513 $24,000–$75,000
New York City, New York $60,110 $33,000–$75,000
Minneapolis, Minnesota $51,962 $49,000–$57,000
Cincinnati, Ohio $55,048 $50,000–$59,000
Milwaukee, Wisconsin $48,625 $40,000–$67,000</p>

<p>Bthomp: Again, exactly the same results. I appreciate you pointing that out. Same school, 2 locations, same excellent results.</p>

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<p>Your own points regarding IUPUI salaries and cost of living where its grads work confirms that IUPUI Kelley is exactly what you argue against it being in other threads: IUPUI Kelley is a commuter school for people who are mainly looking to work in Indy after graduation – this is reflected in their low starting salaries vis a vis IUB Kelley. If IUPUI Kelley grads were actually getting jobs in Chicago, NY, etc., then the starting pay averages would be much higher on IUPUI Kelley website than they are now.</p>

<p>Contrast that with IUB Kelley placements across the country and internationally. Definitely not “the same results.” </p>

<p>Also, if the two are the “same school”, why do they publish separate starting salary data? Obviously, they are not the “same school.” </p>

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<p>Bthomp: Not sure I get your point. I took the data that showed IUB placed kids in Indy for the same salaries as IUPUI and still it didn’t connect with you. If IUB was so much better why are they the same? It is true that you need more to live in other parts of the country therefore salaries vary. But IUB placed kids in Indy for the same salaries.</p>

<p>It’s really simple. 82% of graduates of IUB live in high cost of living areas while about the same proportion of kids at IUPUI live in Indiana. Hence the salary differential. </p>

<p>I have always acknowledged that IUPUI has a higher commuter population but have argued that that it has little to do with performance. In fact I admire those students. For some reason you fall back on this a detriment. Now 72% are full time students and there are not enough dorms right now to fill demand. </p>

<p>I also acknowledge that entrance criteria at IUB IS higher. Due to the quality and demand at IUB, but IUPUI Kelley is making strides. (You cant give me this for some reason).</p>

<p>Where I refuse to budge, because I have done the research and am confident. Curriculum is the same with some first year variations of the same thing, placement is the same in terms of rate and quality. Salaries are similar depending on where the job is offered (as you pointed put in your last 2 posts) . So your point about if IUPUI students were looking for jobs outside Indiana they would be higher. True enough! Thanks for pointing that out!</p>

<p>You know why? They are the same school only a different campus. Different reach, different demographic. </p>

<p>Same quality nonetheless!</p>

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<p>“placement is the same in terms of rate and quality.”</p>

<p>Please show me ANY evidence from the IUPUI Kelley career services office to support this assertion – what are the iupui full-time hire rates? what are the top hiring firms? Needs to be published. Ask the dean next time you have lunch with him why these statistics have not published anywhere on the Internet since 2006-2007. With IUPUI Kelley’s limitless resources, shouldn’t they be able to produce an annual report and post it online for all to see?</p>

<p>The most recent IUPUI Kelley annual report I have been able to find is from 2006-2007. The top hiring companies were:</p>

<p>BKD, LLP – a regional accounting firm (offices mostly in small midwestern cities) with an Indy office
Simon Property Group – shopping mall developer headquartered in Indy
Rolls Royce – has a factory on Indy’s west side
EnviroForensics – a local environmental engineering firm specializing in cleaning contaminated sites
Emmis Communications – headquartered in Indy; owns TV and radio stations</p>

<p>Top students from around the state and especially from across the country are not going to come to IUPUI Kelley to get jobs with these types of companies.</p>

<p>“placement is the same in terms of rate and quality” Saying it ad nauseum doesn’t make it so. Prove it with some numbers. We know this type of information is collected by IUPUI Kelley career services through the “employers” access page of their website. </p>

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<p>Bthomp:
So, I Google Kelley School of Business it comes to a main page. I go to PROGRAMS and it lists the programs at 2 locations. Thrown off, yet I continue. I look at a page that lists faculty in alphabetical order but some have Indianapolis as an address, interesting. I look at a Research page which comments on research being done at 2 locations. Now I’m confused.</p>

<p>I continue on and find the alumni tab. This needs to be completely corrected because as you so clearly state they are not the same school. So those that graduated from IUPUI Kelley at least need a footnote or something.</p>

<p>I then navigate to the recruitment pages. I am concerned that the Indianapolis campus link takes me to IUPUI. Unacceptable! Worst of all, they didn’t have a brochure with pie charts on it showing that most kids were from Illinois or the northeast (not Indiana) . Completely disoriented at this point.</p>

<p>But I did notice a statistic (probably a misprint) that showed that salaries were the same coming out as undergraduates in Indiana to Indiana companies from both schools. That would only be a good comparator and appropriate if the schools were located in Indiana. (What?). I am really surprised to learn that no one really wants to work at venerable Indiana companies like BKD, Lilly or Rolls Royce. Top students from IUB would be slumming it there. Now I begin to feel better. Heck, words like Deloitte are hard to pronounce unless you went to Kelley Bloomington. Kids from Illinois can say it in 5 languages. It just takes me a minute to sound it out.</p>

<p>I look at the School Profile and both locations are listed on the same page and the stats are combined. But, it is evident that Indianapolis is listed after Bloomington. I thought it’s because B comes before I in the alphabet. In fact the Indianapolis campus shouldn’t even be listed because they are not the same school according to you. The fog is lifting!</p>

<p>I read the annual addresses from the Deans. They actually mention the Kelley campuses as the same school. I shouldn’t get my hopes up though. The Indianapolis campus doesn’t have a brochure with pie charts. Every time they mention the Kelley School they should specify the Bloomington campus or the “no brochure” one up North because they don’t have a pie chart. It’s getting clearer!</p>

<p>So, you are correct. And you saying it ad nauseum has made it so. Unless your campus begins with a B or has a brochure with pie charts you are not a real school. </p>

<p>Same great school, 2 campuses. Different reach, different demographic.Same school nonetheless. </p>

<p>IUPUI Kelley is pretty awesome! So, give me your best blast of pomposity. I look forward to it.</p>

<p>Also, just got word that the Lady Jags just beat the Lady Hoosiers in Volleyball. Wait, it’s a mirage because IUPUI is not a real school! (JK)</p>

<p>GO JAGS!!!</p>

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<p>Those pie charts and identifying who hires are huge factors in students choosing their school. You didn’t find what companies hire IUPUI Kelley graduates or how many recent grads have been hired, attend grad school, etc. I can’t find those stats for IUPUI either, and neither can prospective students. </p>

<p>All the schools in the Business Week and other rankings provide those stats. IUPUI Kelley does not provide them-- they give only salary statistics. The stats prospective students are looking for should be on the iUPUI Kelley website. No need to look for them on the IUB Kelley website and confuse the issue. If IUPUI Kelley knows the average starting salaries of its recent grads and publishes such statistics on its website, then it also knows how many of them have been hired and which companies hired them. If hundreds of business schools schools across the country provide prospective students this type of information, why doesn’t IUPUI Kelley. Why would anybody attend a business school that hides the percentage of recent grads hired and who hired them. Pomposity has nothing to do with it. Students who attend IUB Kelley, including the ones from Illinois that can say Deloitte in “five different languages”, all know what companies they have a shot of working for after paying up to $150,000-plus to attend IUB Kelley. IUPUI Kelley won’t tell prospective students what they are risking their money for. </p>

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<p>I don’t disagree with your statements about visibility in general. It would be nice if people knew about IUPUi Kelley. I actually think that the folks from Illinois are short changed a little because they don’t know about the Indianapolis option. It’s just quite a leep to say that one school is better than another because they publish a brochure. Does it attract more kids who don’t have the capacity to check it out? Probably. It’s a shame!</p>

<p>You wont address the point about how the campuses are strategically positioned. The website is the same, the Dean is the same, the curriculum is the same, the Alumni Association is the same etc. Is my face blue yet? I did my research and the ROI for my kid was higher at IUPUI Kelley. Kelley Honors right off the bat, already networking with great companies, rubbing elbows with top professionals. And he is 3 weeks into his first year. He leaves for a visit to the NY stock exchange next month, and so on…</p>

<p>As far as the rankings, just remember that they are primarily about programs, content, curriculum etc.as seen by other academics. Again the SAME!</p>

<p>So, they are risking the SAME or less amount of Tuition for the SAME thing. Maybe the companies are closer to Indy. I guess that is different. But maybe some kids are proud to be from Indiana.</p>

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<p>I’m just too lazy to argue about it anymore. Quite frankly, most Indiana students don’t want to stay in Indiana. I didn’t, and I got a job straight out of college with a top 5 consulting firm. That firm provides a list of schools they recruit at–and IUPUI isn’t one of them. </p>

<p>IUPUI may be a great fit and a great financial option for your child, but most high achieving students strive for far more than IUPUI. I was one of those high achieving students and I didn’t even bat an eye at IUPUI. </p>

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<p>soccergurl: Sounds like you did very well.Congrats! </p>

<p>I just know so many people that didn’t look at or know about the Kelley Indianapolis option. Respectfully, you could be one of them. I graduated from IUB and hired off the campus to a worldwide leader in Healthcare company . But my son is way more talented than I am. Many think it is a good fit for many kids.</p>

<p>I will ask you to please temper your comments “high achieving students strive for far more than IUPUI”. The implication is a little snarky! You had mentioned this in an earlier post as well and I couldn’t believe it! There are also many high achieving kids that strive for far more than IU. It actually sounds like you think “your” better than the kids from Kelley Indianapolis. Maybe you didn’t mean that, but that is how you sound. If that is what you mean, I appreciate your self assured demeanor, but it wont play well for long in the corporate world. Additionally, down the road a graduate from Kelley Indianapolis might be your boss some day. Then what? </p>

<p>IUB doesn’t hold a patent on talent, drive or passion!</p>

<p>This thread is a discussion about Kelley and the differences. There are some, but more things are the same comparatively.</p>

<p>For one, there are many high achieving kids at Kelley Indianapolis as well. </p>

<p>Not sure why this really tweaks some people. But the Kelley schools are the same. Just different locations, different demographics (Chicago suburbs versus Indy North). IUB has higher admittance criteria because of demand. That’s it!!! Literally EVERYTHING else is the same. </p>

<p>Oh, and maybe some “top 5” firms like to hire kids from the Chicago suburbs. Going to work for Lilly, Cummins, BKD, Rolls Royce etc is way below Kelley IUB. I get it now! Unbelievable!</p>

<p>It’s because IUB produces people that think this way is one of the reasons why the Indianapolis Kelley is making so much headway. </p>

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<p>soccergurl: I wonder if you see any of the top 4 on the list for recruiting event for Kelley Indianapolis?</p>

<p>I guess they didn’t list IUPUI as different because they are the same. Deloitte, E & Y, KPMG + the top Regional firms are all recruiting at Kelley Indianapolis.</p>

<p><a href=“Career Services | Career Services | Kelley Indianapolis”>Career Services | Career Services | Kelley Indianapolis;

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<p>This is the Career Services Tagline. On we on the same page yet?</p>

<p>Indiana University
Indiana University Purdue University Indianapolis</p>

<p>Kelley School of Business. One School. Endless Possibilities.
Copyright © 2013</p>

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<p>What tweaks me is the way you doggedly defend IUPUI despite lacking the statistics to back up the equality. I’m not saying IUPUI isn’t a great school for some kids. But top 5 or 10 or 20 firms want top 5 or 10 or 20 students–and that is why they recruit at places like IUB, Michigan, UNC, or UVA. While a company like Deloitte may be on that list, that list is missing a lot of big name firms. Those include: Goldman Sachs, Merrill Lynch, Accenture, Booz Allen Hamilton, PwC, Crowe Horwath, Bain & Co, McKinsey, Citigroup, JPMorgan Chase, Morgan Stanley…and that doesn’t even include the Fortune 500 companies that recruit there.</p>

<p>IUPUI doesn’t prove it’s worth anywhere close to an IUB-level investment. They don’t post employment statistics, they don’t post graduate hiring lists. Those have nothing to do with ‘pomposity’ or ‘attitude’–numbers don’t lie. A quick scan of several top 10 undergrad business programs find entire brochures or web pages devoted to hiring statistics, salaries, salary ranges by geographic location/company/etc., and lists of every entity that recruited their students–why can’t IUPUI do that? The real question is, why DOESN’T IUPUI do that? </p>

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<p>Goodkidsdad, pointing out that the big four recruit IUPUI means nothing as far as comparing IUPUI to IUB Kelley. Turnover for big four firms is ridiculously high, with probably no more than half of a companies new hires working more than three years. Big Four and many of the regional accounting firms need a constant pipeline of new hires.</p>

<p>What other schools does the big four recruit in central Indiana? How about Anderson, Butler, UIndy, Hanover, Earlham, Marian University, St. Joseph’s, Taylor, Univ of Evansville, St. Marys of the Wood, and last but not least IUPUI. They all do their job interviews at the College Career Center Consortium accounting interview day held on Indy’s southside every September. By your logic, all the above mentioned schools are the equal of IUB Kelley. </p>

<p><a href=“http://cccc-in.org/page-1454135”>http://cccc-in.org/page-1454135&lt;/a&gt;?&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“College Career Center Consortium of Indiana - AID Registered Employers”>http://cccc-in.org/page-1862583&lt;/a&gt;?&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Aren’t you just a little concerned that IUPUI doesn’t post their hiring numbers, other than salary stats? Sounds like they are trying to build their ugrad program on the illusion that IUPUI Kelley is “the same” (whatever that means) as IUB Kelley, an illusion that would be destroyed in an instant if they actually published hiring stats that everybody knows they collect but won’t share with anybody, including prospective students looking for a good return on the educational investment. No wonder IUPUI has so few OOS and international students. </p>