<p>Yes, we did have him in at another U that GUARANTEED he would be fully funded, but he had NO interest in visiting or attending. I think he would have attended flagship U, instate or taken a gap year if he had been rejected. He was also offered significant merit at anther U, so he did have options. </p>
<p>USC was not quite so competitive back in 2006 when S applied, but no, it is not a safety for anyone any more. </p>
<p>My fear of my daughter being shut-out leads her to apply to several match schools. So far she’s 7 out of 7 (USC, CalPoly SLO, UCSD, Case, UCD, UCSB, UCI). Applied as CS major (and accepted as CS major) to all those schools. Now, we’re just waiting for her reaches.</p>
<p>^ There seem to be no rejections at all from UCs which means either she chose an easy major or good students don’t get as surprised at UCs as people seem to be predicting.</p>
<p>CS is definitely not an easy major to get into.</p>
<p>""“does not have a med school associated with it, which makes her worried about being able to find undergrad research opportunities. “””"</p>
<p>An undergrad having or not having a med school is largely irrelevant. undergrads aren’t doing anything at the med school. There’s no noticeable benefit.</p>
<p>At any research univ, there will be research opps that a premed can do.</p>
<p>Our public universities in NY all have different requirements. Two that I know of have rolling admissions and guaranteed acceptance at a certain level, as well as full tuition or partial tuition discounts. They are safety schools in my book.</p>
<p>@texaspg my S got into all UCs he applied to as well, but UCLA and UCB are still to come and are reaches. I think for very strong students, many UCs are safeties. </p>
<p>@Blossom, there were people who went to the campus and interviewed and had 2300 SAT and got waitlisted. Showing interest wasn’t enough.</p>
<p>2018 dad, USC and UCSD are excellent CS schools. With safeties like that, who needs a reach school! (ok, you said ‘match’, but still …)</p>
<p>Upon further reflection, I think that part of what is going on here is semantics. People talk about a “safety” being a school that HAS to take the kid, based on numbers alone. That is not my idea of an adequate safety. In fact, for a kid with top stats, I see no reason to apply to such a school at all, unless that guaranteed acceptance also comes with sufficient guaranteed money to make it affordable, no matter what. Or unless for some reason they really like it.</p>
<p>I regard a safety as a school that is pretty certain to take the kid, barring a bizarre result. Maybe some people would classify that as a low match rather than a safety. I think it is probably a good idea to have more than one of my kind of safety, just in case. I also think that it becomes riskier when my kind of safety is a LAC, rather than a mid-sized or larger university. When approximately 500 places are involved, individual acceptances are inherently less predictable than when there are 1000+. Williams and Swarthmore are going to have a higher rate of strange outcomes than the University of Rochester. Obviously, situations where students have to apply by major and where acceptance rates vary wildly by major are also different. In that case, the true acceptance figures are those of the major, not the school as a whole, and that is the light in which the school must be viewed.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>I agree. And I think that unless money is no object, a student should have at least two to three financial safeties. </p>
<p>I’ve told this story before…one of younger son’s classmates applied to ivies/elites, a couple of matches, and to ONE safety. In the spring, she had rejections from the top schools, and the matches weren’t affordable. The safety was all that was left. She was demoralized at not being able to pick a school. She felt railroaded, even though she liked her safety. she kept calling her safety “the booby prize”.</p>
<p>I think it’s always a good idea to have choices.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>The uncertainties of holistic reviews mean that odd things can happen to an applicant who applies to several UC campuses. For example, see this post: <a href=“have there been any instances in the previous year? - #6 by Jweinst1 - University of California - Berkeley - College Confidential Forums”>have there been any instances in the previous year? - #6 by Jweinst1 - University of California - Berkeley - College Confidential Forums;
<p>While the holistic review process used at UCs appears to be designed for consistency (each application is reviewed by two different readers; if their scores differ by more than a small amount, a senior reader breaks the tie), it is certainly possible in tens of thousands of applications for an unlucky student to have his/her application read by two readers who tend to score lower than average or a lucky student to have his/her application read by two readers who tend to score higher than average (at least at the time they read the student’s application).</p>
<p>In addition, some majors may be more impacted at some less selective UCs than at some more selective UCs. If this is the case, then the “less selective” UC may actually be more selective than the “more selective” UC for a student applying to such a major.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Earlham College is a LAC with strong life science programs. Guilford College is a LAC with strong earth science programs. Lawrence University is a LAC with strong physical science programs. All three have admit rates over 70%; all three claim to cover over 80% of demonstrated need on average. Wabash (men only) seems to be a pretty strong STEM school; its admit rate is 67% and it claims to meet 97% of demonstrated need, on average.</p>
<p>These and other “Colleges That Change Lives” members might make good safety schools for some high-stats kids who would prefer a small LAC. They don’t cover full need and they are not cheap, so for a family that cannot cover its EFC, perhaps they should be considered low match schools. </p>
<p>Guilford College has three faculty members devoted to geology. One of those is a visiting assistant professor. A prospective geology major would be much better served by going to the similarly selective Appalachian State which has 19 relevant faculty members for 20 graduating majors. </p>
<p>^^ Isn’t that a choice for the applicant to make? When you pick a small school, you are going to have smaller departments than at a mid-sized school or big State U. Which is more important to you, a faculty of 15 or a small school where you know everyone?</p>
<p>However, you can sometimes have both. For example, South Dakota School of Mines and Technology has 16 faculty members in its geology and geological engineering department (see [here](<a href=“http://www.sdsmt.edu/Academics/Departments/Geology-and-Geological-Engineering/Personnel/Faculty-and-Staff/]here[/url]”>Faculty and Staff)</a>), but has only about 2,000 undergraduates. Seems like a much better choice than Guilford for geology (and Guilford is larger and almost twice as expensive at list price).</p>
<p>
@mom2collegekids: Actually, there will be far more medically-related research opportunities (particularly of a clinical/translational nature) at an undergraduate institution which has an associated med school. Often times, undergrads are allowed to take med school elective courses on a space-available baiss. A nearby med school will offer Grand Rounds in various specialties and give undergrads access to visiting speakers. Attending such talks can open up all kinds of opportunities (summer research internships, jobs, collaborations, project ideas, etc.). Since the library at a med school serves physicians and physician-scientists, it is more likely to have electronic and hard copy subscriptions to a greater number of medical journals. Premed counseling will typically be better at an undergrad with an associated med school. Undergrads are often paired up with physicians or physician-scientists as “long-term” mentors earlier on (sophomore year?).</p>
<p>Although it’s true that any research university will have research opportunities, I wouldn’t go so far as to label an associated med school “irrelevant” or offering “no noticeable benefit.”</p>
<p>One of my students with a premed interest was considering applying to Baylor undergrad. When I told him that Baylor med school was located in Houston while the undergrad campus was in Waco, he didn’t bother applying. There were better options for him out there.</p>
<p>My point is that a student should not be discounting a research univ because it doesn’t have a med school…otherwise, a premed student shouldn’t go to Princeton, MIT, Berkeley, or a number of other very good schools. </p>
<p>If you visit the premed forums, many/most applicants aren’t attending undergrads where there is a med school, yet they have more than enough medically-related ECs and research opps. and, frankly, medically-related research isn’t necessary…any STEM research has value on a med school app.</p>
<p>"“Oftentimes undergrads are allowed to take med school elective courses on a space-available basis…”"</p>
<p>lol…this I doubt. There may be some med schools that do this, but I highly doubt it’s “oftentimes.” Many med schools aren’t even located that close to the undergrad campus. That said, my son’s med school is located on the same campus as the undergrads, yet there aren’t any undergrads in any courses or doing any interaction at all. </p>
<p>I would not equate having a med school as an indication of better med school advising. </p>
<p>@mom2collegekids:
There’s a discrepancy between what you wrote in your last post…and what you had written previously.
You used words such as “irrelevant” and “no noticeable benefit.”
That’s very different from the remark that students can find “enough” medically-related at undergrad institutions not affiliated with a med school.</p>
<p>The two undergrad/med school institutions with which I have been affiliated allowed undergrads to take elective med courses if the undergrad student exhibited sufficient interest, i.e., showed some initiative. There were also numerous opportunities for interaction between med students and undergrads (mentoring, pre-professional clubs, research training, intramural sports, etc.).</p>
<p>I’m more than a little surprised by your comments. They are not at all consistent with my personal experience at two institutions (quite different from each other - one East Coast private, one West Coast public) and what I’ve heard from classmates/friends who matriculated elsewhere.
I wouldn’t either…but it’s certainly possible, depending on how you define “better.”</p>
<p>I had friends who attended primarily undergraduate institutions where they were paired up with pre-professional counselors who weren’t even physicians (science professors who had minimal experience with the med school admissions process)! I had access to a pre-med committee full of clinicians and physician-scientists. As an undergrad, I was able to have lunch in my college dining hall once a month with a med school-affiliated physician who provided a great deal of insight into the med school admissions process and helped me figure out what I wanted to do in my future medical career. My undergrad research mentor was a faculty member at the med school. He gave me a lot of wonderful advice as well…and still does.</p>
<p>A pre-med undergrad certainly doesn’t need all of this “extra” advising in order to secure an acceptance from med school. But it’s kind of nice.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Here’s what Loren Pope had to say about Guilford’s geology program:</p>
<p><a href=“Colleges that Change Lives: 40 Schools that Will Change the Way You Think ... - Loren Pope - Google Books”>Colleges that Change Lives: 40 Schools that Will Change the Way You Think ... - Loren Pope - Google Books;
<p>Maybe those remarks are out-of-date.
Nevertheless, if you do like small colleges, you should be able to find another one with relatively high admission rates and decent programs in your prospective major. South Dakota School of Mines and Technology may well be a better choice for earth sciences.</p>
<p>Then go study for your APs so you can get into one because you sure as hell won’t make it based on charm. </p>