<p>Everything about Smith looks like it is an outstanding school except for one thing. Every single book we have read talks about the huge number of gay girls on campus. In fact, they seem to like to point that out in large type. We are not homophobic, let me get that straight first (pun intended;) ). I am going to quote from the 2007 edition of College ******* because it seems representative of the college books in general and what they like to say about Smith:</p>
<p>(pg. 480)
" ...no one talks about sexual harassment. I've been grabbed at parties, and girls have tried to make-out with me, and that's not okay. If that was some guy, it wouldn't have been okay, and it's not okay for girls to do it."
In the section 'students speak out on guys and girls (pg.479):
"I suppose it's great as long as you aren't straight."
pg. 477:
On Northampton:
"It's cutesy, but coming from a big city, it was hard to adjust. But it's not the small stereotype; Northampton has a thriving cultural and political community. Plus, it has a lot of lesbians!"
pg 478:
" The gay community is one of the most vocal and present groups on campus. Some students, however, complain that Smith is too focused on the gay community."</p>
<p>The period of time between 18 and 22 are the most formative years of a young persons development. Being gay is okay, but as a parent I am trying to find a way to discount this issue for my own daughter. It seems to be a perfect school otherwise. </p>
<p>What is the percentage of gay young women there?
Are the young women at Smith as aggressive as this and other books portray?
Are the students 'in your face' about homosexuality? </p>
<p>It is one thing to be homosexual, but another to be raving and aggressive about it. These books ALL make it sound overwhelming and that if you are not homosexual you won't be happy. Is that true? Why would a parent encourage a daughter to go to a college where she might be, "grabbed at parties," by someone of the same sex? </p>
<p>Help me out here! Tell me how any inexperienced young woman will not become confused in this environment. Smith looks so awesome otherwise.</p>
<p>Hm, that book seems strang because as a student thatâs not how I experience Smith at all. I have never, EVER been âgrabbed at partyâ or had any member of Smithâs gay community attempt to make out with me on the dance floor. </p>
<p>Hereâs what you should know:
If your daughter is uncomfortable with the presence of a gay community, she will not be comfortable at Smith. The gay community is perhaps only 30 percent of the campus population, but yes, they are a vocal segment of the population. Probably because Smith is considered to be a safe space, where itâs okay for people who are often marginalized in the outside community to be themselves and to have a voice. </p>
<ol>
<li><p>Yes, there are quite a few homosexual couples (male and female) that live, work, and run businesses in Northampton. </p></li>
<li><p>People seem obsessed with the âlesbian issueâ on womenâs college campuses. Itâs so bizarre to me, considering our gay population is no larger by proportion than most schools, but there you have it. If itâs important for you to shelter your daughter from the presence of gay couples or gay people, then I donât think any womenâs college, and probably very few colleges in general, are going to help you out there. </p></li>
<li><p>Gay smithies are a great part of the community. Theyâre nothing to be afraid of. Like all minority groups on campus, I think they enrich our experience. Iâm not sure what you mean by âin your faceâ about homosexuality. Gay smithies are open, theyâre proud, happy people. they kiss in public. They hold hands. They dance together at parties. They date. If thatâs being âin your faceâ then, yes, I guess they are. </p></li>
<li><p>They have very good âgay-darâ. They know when a student is straight and itâs not liek theyâre going to throw themselves at you and try to bed you in hte middle of the campus center. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>My best advice is to come and visit Smith and see for yourself. Experience the culture first hand, dont just read about it in some bizarre college book.</p>
<p>I attended Wellesley. The problem there was not that females were âraving and aggressive about itâ but that the heterosexual men on campus were âraving and aggressiveâ. Your daughter will encounter a few oversexed and agressive young people in college, whether heterosexual or otherwise. Sheâll learn to deal with it. Be careful that you donât want to protect her too much! Smith is a wonderful school.</p>
<p>I canât stress enough how overblown this lesbian thing is. My daughter is a straight sophomore and gay women are not an issue at all. With college admissions becoming increasingly competitive, Smith has become increasingly straight. That being said, if gay women make you uncomfortable, donât go to a single-sex school. Donât go to any smallish liberal arts school in the Northeast, either.<br>
Smith is an incredible school, with lots of diversity, great academics and strong traditions, but as S and P said, you have to check it out for yourself and decide.</p>
<p>Hey, momofsmithie, thanks for your pointing out how overblown this can get. Iâd be interested in why your daughter chose Smith over other single sex schools. We visited Smith last week and the next day visited Mount Holyoke. Both were impressive. I liked Smithâs Northampton location but liked Mount Holyokeâs distribution requirements. Iâm sure there are many differences and am curious what makes one a better choice for someone?</p>
<p>A lot of gay women experience isolation and abuse in high school (although the kids and staff at my kidsâ hs seem to be very accepting) and choose to go to Smith or other colleges with liberal atmospheres because they can be themselves. So there might be more women walking around holding hands than in the average American town. Or organizing clubs where they can be vocal about their lifestyle. </p>
<p>I have gay and straight women friends who went to womenâs colleges and really learned how to succeed professionally and personally from being in an all-women atmosphere where they werenât judged from a male perspective.</p>
<p>Groping anyone at parties is gross, but there are gross people at all colleges.</p>
<p>Shelly14, you asked momofsmithie - - but Iâll answer since I too have a D at Smith. </p>
<p>DD thought Smith had a better reputation (more name recognition?) than MHC, found Smith to be stronger in her area of interest (arch/engineering) and was amazed by the variety of courses offered (Dâs current favorites - - landscaping and horticulture). D found Smith MORE attractive b/c of the absence of distrib reqs and gen eds. She also liked having Noho right outside her door and the housing system appealed to her (canât recall about MHC housing): small houses, many w/ on-site dining - - she can just roll out of bed and into the dining room for bâfast.</p>
<p>With the exception of Noho and arrary of courses, I think the differences are minor. Rolling out of bed and into the dining room is nice, but it most certainly not essential to a good/great college experience. And while the absence of distrib reqs was important to DD, many Smith students voluntarily fulfill the equiv of gen eds (required to fro graduation w/ Latin Honors).</p>
<p>Iâm the mom of a senior at Smith, and I had similar concerns when she was applying to Smith, although I was more concerned about extreme male-bashing feminism dominating the discourse around campus than I was about lesbianism per se. All I can say is that my concerns were totally unfounded. This has absolutely been the right place for my daughter â I canât say enough good things about the supportiveness of the faculty, staff, coaches, and friends she has gotten to know over the course of her four years at Smith. Never was it more true that you canât believe everything you read. </p>
<p>So long as your daughter is herself interested in going to Smith, and knows what she is getting into (Iâd strongly recommend that she attend the accepted-student weekend), I wouldnât worry about her being overwhelmed by the lesbian presence on campus. It has never been an issue for my daughter.</p>
<p>you know, i hear a lot on CC from moms with straight daughters or straight girls themselves who worry about the huge lesbian population at smith, and everyone says its not a problem. i would like to know where the gay smithies are. i mean, if they make up a large enough part of the population to give the school a reputation, they must be out there somewhere!</p>
<p>Inspiration â
Most of the people on this thread with a knowledge of the students at Smith have not denied that thereâs a visible gay population on campus and in the community. One poster said 30% of the students. However, it was also noted that the percentage of gay students at Smith is probably similar to most other Northeastern colleges.</p>
<p>Well i agree with you inspiration08, I donât think that âitâs not a problemâ is the best terms to couch it in, though itâs hard sometimes to express the situation accurately, and while ânot a problemâ isnât perfect language, itâs sometimes the best we can do. I donât think anyone is trying to be dismissive, itâs just that hte gay population really isntâ a big deal. </p>
<p>With the gay smithies i know, with all the smithies I know, the attitude is sort of that being gay is no more or less remarkable a trait than being black, or catholic, or jewish, or from hawaii. Gay becomes just one factor of how you think about people, and sometimes not even the dominating one. counseling a friend through her same-sex relationship angst is as normal as counseling a straight friend, and even if you come from a community where there are no out lesbians, it quickly becomes natural. </p>
<p>Parents, for whatever reason, seem to have this phobia that Smith will âturn their daughter gayâ or that sheâll be uncomfortable with a campus with a significant and vocal gay population. Often times I think that reflects parental issues (no offense parents) rather than student ones. The smart parents know that they canât shelter their child forever no matter how much they want to, and that they just have to let her respond and experience as she is inclined to. </p>
<p>Personally, I was attracted to Smith because of the gay population. Iâm not gay, but the way I viewed it, it must be an accepting place if women feel like they can be themselves here, and fully express their feelings in ways that maybe they canât on the outside. Iâm from a mixed-race family, and I was anxious about going to a small, Northeastern LAC, because Iâve had my own difficult experiences not fitting in easily with campus communities because of my racial background. So I figured hey, if sexual orientation isnât a big deal, then my race wonât be either. And itâs not.</p>
<p>Thanks for the thoughts everyone. 30% is extremely high for most schools, actually, but that wasnât the real issue. The issue was whether âthe booksâ overblow the situation and whether a gentle young woman would be overwhelmed by the social aspects of Smith. I am not overprotective. I wonder why people like to say a parent is too overprotective whenever they bring up difficult issues? To turn a blind eye and say it doesnât matters at all is to be naive. The world is made up of half men. Men bashing is not okay. For all the challenges a womens college presents, I was wondering if the obvious benefits to an outstanding school like Smith outweighed those issues. Not competing with outspoken young men could really bring out the best in a young woman and allow her to gain confidence, leadership and really excel. </p>
<p>If my daughter gets in we will go and visit in April. She will form her own opinion of whether or not it is right for her. I hope our concerns are laid to rest for good. </p>
<p>This issue is a central controversy to many students considering a womens college and Smith in particular. If it wasnât, the topic would not keep reemerging over and over and over. If it wasnât, gay young women wouldnât flock to womenâs colleges in droves to populate said 30% of a campus (three times the nation average of gay people). Obviously, they want to have a real social life for the first time in their lives. Thatâs terrific! </p>
<p>All I want is for my daughter to have an awesome social life in college, too. Because there a lot more to college then just academics. And, I donât think that is asking too much, do you?</p>
<p>Smithie and Proud,
We cross posted. If you are an example of a Smith student, I would be proud to have my daughter a Smith student. I appreciate your honesty and your thoughts. You are right that parents worry more about this then their children do. There is an innate biological drive to perpetuate your genes, after all. I am not so closed minded to think a particular environment would âturn someone gayâ. That said, I believe a visit is in order. And, perhaps some of you proud Smithies and Smithie parents could write those book publishers about the negative spin they place on Smith. They do not do that with many of the other womens colleges. Why do they pick on Smith so much?</p>
<p>Well, while I appreciate the compliment, I donât think college books really pick on Smith that much. All the ones I read when I was preparing to visit were pretty positive. Maybe it was this particular publisher? </p>
<p>Also, Iâm not sure that the whole gay culture thing is a controversy for prospective applicants. People are curious about it, but itâs not often a make or break issue in my experience, and I get fewer and fewer questions about it on my tours. Not that it doesnât come up, itâs just I think controversy is a strong term. </p>
<p>And Smith isnât neccessarily the first place for a lot of these women to have a âreal social lifeâ. Some members of Smithâs gay community arenât out before they arrive, but I find that most are. And there are still others who just never thought outside of the hetero-normative (a favorite smith word) box. Sorry to be nit-picky, but Iâm just trying to paint you as accurate a picture as possible. </p>
<p>But yes, again, I hope you do come and visit. Smith isnât a school for everyone, in fact, I find it suits a very particular kind of student. It can be difficult for your daughter to assess how comfortable she will be without a visit.</p>
<p>SmithieandProud â
My compliments to you, too, on your post #12. It is a wonderful response, especially to a parent, to the issue brought up in this thread.</p>
<p>Justwonderingwhy â glad you plan to visit if your daughter is admitted. She will be able to decide, herself, what is wonderful about an all womenâs school, and if there are any issues that might keep her from getting the most out of her experience there (andâŠif she decides the place isnât for her, the reason could be something completely different from what you might expect!)</p>
<p>I second SmitheandProudâs analysis. For some students, a feminist, accepting atmosphere is just what theyâre looking for, even if they are straight and enjoy male companionship. My D fits this mold.</p>
<p>She applied to Smith and would have been proud to attend had she not chosen Barnard. Her choice came down to those two schools.</p>
<p>She wanted a school that supported women in their endeavors, and one that had no trace of misogyny. </p>
<p>I think Smith provides that for its students. And feminism doesnât mean aggression or male bashing. A womanâs college supports women in achievement without diminishing men at all.</p>
<p>To the OP: Unwanted male attentions would seem a bigger problem than unwanted female attention. JMO. Of course, we all learn to deal with that.</p>
<p>Good luck with your search. I have been blown away by reading about what Smith does for its students.</p>
<p>One note to all of this: Northampton, MA has a very visible gay population, more than the towns surrounding the other womenâs schools. I think that may be one reason that Smith is singled out as being more âgayâ in the guidebooks. That being said, Northampton is one of the reasons my D picked Smith. Itâs an artsy, charming town with interesting shopping and great restaurants, within walking distance of campus. A huge plus.</p>
<p>My D graduated from Smith in '06. Yes, she happens to be hetero and fairly conservative in her behavior, although fairly liberal in her politics. (At Smith, however, she probably found herself to be considered a political moderate. ;))</p>
<p>Anyhow, she has no regrets about her experience. She had terrific educational experiences, wonderful support from her profs, and made great life-long friends (some gay, some not). She now serves as a volunteer alum interviewer for Smith.</p>
<p>I do have one comment to make about the perceptions of Smith as overwhelmingly lesbian. If you visit a campus and see a guy and a girl walking along holding hands it probably does not even permeate your consciousness. But if you see any public display of affection between two women, it probably does register, even if you feel you are not biased. So there may be some âoverreactionâ to evidence of a lesbian scene at Smith.</p>
<p>As for the town of Northampton, I considered it like a New England version of NYCâs Greenwich Village - an artsy, happening place with, yes, an openness and welcoming attitude towards gays. Our family really liked the location of the campus adjacent to a âdestinationâ town. My D did not consider Mount Holyoke because it felt relatively isolated. Smith was the only singe-sex school to which she applied, but it ended up being her dream school.</p>
<p>Anyhow, depending upon how high on oneâs list of college criteria âmeeting and dating guysâ may be, Smith may or may not fit the bill. With respect to my D, H and I truly believe that Smith supported her in becoming the person she was capable of being, and gave her an excellent foundatiion for her later personal and professional life. It worked great for her.</p>
<p>Campus survey conducted last year indicates that 11% of Smith students are lesbians. Thatâs about one third the number of gay men at Yale. In both cases, they add very significantly to the life of the campus. </p>
<p>As for the town - visit! I donât know of a better campus town in America, and my d. (who hasnât even graduated yet) is already missing it.</p>
I am not so closed minded to think a particular environment would âturn someone gayâ. That said, I believe a visit is in order. And, perhaps some of you proud Smithies and Smithie parents could write those book publishers about the negative spin they place on Smith. They do not do that with many of the other womens colleges. Why do they pick on Smith so much?</p>