<p>NYgella - good luck and God bless!</p>
<p>No disrespect to a hard-working family man, but you are making a mistake. UPitt is just not in the league of Penn, WUSTL or CMU. Hammer all three with the Pitt offer and beg, plead etc. them to do better. Take the best offer and move forward. His lifetime earnings potential will be much higher from one of those 3 schools versus Pitt, with no disrespect to Pitt.</p>
<p>I agree Penn is better, but 57,000 better? I’m not sure. Just some info - Pitt was fully private until 1966 when it became state related. They are somewhat of a hybrid - public/private and the state of PA only contributes 9% of its budget. Yes a 50% budget cut would hurt but not as bad as other schools. I don’t think it will come to 50% though. As for tuition, a full tuition scholarship shields you even as the tuition goes up.</p>
<p>I’m not sure that’s necessarily true, Paradocs. </p>
<p>In one of my former work positions, I did a lot of hiring. We were always extremely impressed to see on a resume that a student had received a full-ride scholarship – no matter where the school. Those kids who were the big fish at their institutions also seemed to have better references (as the profs and internship supervisors seemed to have more personal relationships with those types of students) and more actual involvement to list on the resumes. And many of the people on the hiring committees with me had no idea about the prestige (or lack thereof) of the different universities. </p>
<p>The resume that impressed us most over the years had nothing to do with the actual college attended at all. It was from a student who had competed on College Jeopardy!</p>
<p>
Good lord, where did you get that idea? Suggest you read the Krueger-Dale study. The only segment that is accepted into an Ivy and chooses instead a State Flagship that will do better in earnings over a 20 year period by choosing the Ivy & equivalents are low SES students. Non-low-SES have similar income outcomes getting into both, but matriculating into a Flagship. (third to last paragraph in link below).</p>
<p>It’s not the school, it is the student. The school is simply a holding tank.</p>
<p>[Who</a> Needs Harvard? - Brookings Institution](<a href=“http://www.brookings.edu/articles/2004/10education_easterbrook.aspx?p=1]Who”>http://www.brookings.edu/articles/2004/10education_easterbrook.aspx?p=1)</p>
<p>Its not the school,its the student? Yikes, i guess anyone attending an Ivy or private school is wasting their money,as they woukd be succesful going to Podunk U…if you believe that i got a great degree to sell you from The University of Phoenix. :)</p>
<p>To all the people who think that have not begged, cried, pleaded, and sent copies of comparisons from other schools, really don’t know me. By the way ivies and other top schools don’t care about full scholarships from state schools, they only take into account grants from similar instutions. At the end of the reevaluation, all we received was a measly non-renewable grant that couldn’t possibly get my son through four years of undergraduate school.</p>
<p>I’ve done some research on ivies and below is a link that supports my decision and there are other studies that prove that Ivies are not the only schools that guarantee financial success.</p>
<p>[Ivy</a> League education: No longer worth it? - Sep. 14, 2010](<a href=“http://money.cnn.com/2010/09/14/pf/college/ivy_league_worth.fortune/index.htm]Ivy”>http://money.cnn.com/2010/09/14/pf/college/ivy_league_worth.fortune/index.htm)</p>
<p>NYgella… a sensible decision for your family. Ignore those posters who try to put a guilt trip on you for not breaking the bank for your S. They themselves are trying to justify agreeing to send there kid to an expensive private. Nobody wants to think they made the wrong decision. Too many send there kids to these mid-50K schools and then bring on years of stress to themselves worrying about how to pay each year and then pay off loans after kid graduates. </p>
<p>For those posters who say “let the kid choose”… well these posters are just other HS kids and like most HS kids have no clue how much money $250K is. The final decision is the parents, they’re the ones paying and have the life experience and maturity to understand the tradeoffs between expensive privates and lower cost alternatives.</p>
<p>
I’m assuming you didn’t read the link I posted. It isn’t Ivy v. U of Phoenix, it is Ivy v. State Flagship (or equivalent… i.e. Tufts, Brandeis, possibly Tulane, Miami, etc.). I’m going to assume you have not studied at both an Ivy and a state flagship? Many posters on this Board have, and form their opinions both on their own experience, those around them, and on the empirirical data such as that discussed by researchers Krueger and Dale. I happen to have had the somewhat unusual experience of studying at both, as and undergrad.</p>
<p>NYGella-we are in a similar position. We are going to have aid reviewd, however very doubtful it will help. I think state school makes more sense for my son. We also have a daughter that will go through in 2 years and don’t want to be too financially stressed.</p>
<p>Nygella…Congrats on your decision; from everything you’ve said, it’s obvious your family has given this tremendous thought, and you should be supported. </p>
<p>I don’t know much about Pitt; however, I can relate somewhat to your situation. Our D last year was deciding between Northwestern and UVa (OOS). We don’t qualify for ANY financial aid. The price difference between the two was around 10-15K annually when you factored in extraneous expenses. Yes, she felt UVa was a better social fit, but one of the big considerations for her was cost. She saw the state school as a better value especially in light of her ambition to go to med school. Furthermore, this realization of cost benefit has began driving her graduate school goals – she’s uncertain at this point if a med school like Harvard or Stanford is worth significantly more than say, UT Southwestern, UT Houston, or UTHSCSA. Her remark, “Mom, I have no idea where my doctor went to undergrad let alone med school, but I know she’s one of the best in town. Who cares? Do most people check their physician’s diplomas before choosing? I don’t think so. I’d rather have that money to start building my practice.”</p>
<p>Dunn, i was joking with the U of Phoenix crack…but i standby my comment about Ivies and ‘most’ state flagships…certainly there are excellent flagships,but i am very familiar with those nearby,PSU and RU…They are not very good flagships and certainly can’t compete with the likes of Tufts,Brandeis ,etc…i also agree that the privates you mention ,as well as many others are very competetive schools and are worthy of many Ivy wantabees…These schools,are also much better then most state flagships</p>
<p>DunninLA - </p>
<p>I’ve read the study. It’s retrospective. Employment conditions in the US have changed vastly. You’re driving with the rear-view mirror. I went to a state flagship myself before getting an Ivy League MBA. If faced with OP’s decision, which I faced myself awhile back, I would choose an elite school. I just got lucky.</p>
<p>And there are state “flagships” and merely state schools. UW-Madison, UNC, UCLA, UVA etc. are just much better than Pitt. You’re not helping the OP.</p>
<p>Nicekidsmom - </p>
<p>I’ve been on Wall Street for awhile now. We’ve never recruited outside Ivy/Elite schools. Period. I’ve never heard of anybody up here that does either.</p>
<p>So I guess it depends on what the kid wants to pursue as a career. Of course, America probably has too many bankers already.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Not a smart reply, given Wall Streets ability to destroy the economy makes one wonder if these Ivy/Elite’s actually teach anything. These elites also might want to consider adding ethics courses to the require curriculum.</p>
<p>For once I find myself in agreement with FooMonChew!</p>
<p>The economic crash that was fueled by the investment schemes of Ivy grads does tend to give the Ivies a bad name. I don’t blame it on a lack of ethics though, I blame it on all of those smart kids taking Calculus instead of Consumer Math. Smart is good, but often “street-wise” is better, and in this case I’m not referring to the street named “Wall”.</p>
<p>Here is an example where last years graduates of Penn State went to grad school:</p>
<p>Sample of Graduate and Professional Programs Enrolling 2009–10 Graduates:
Brown University, Ph.D., History
City University of london, M.A., Journalism
Columbia University,
Ph.D., Biomedical Engineering
Cornell University,
Ph.D., Biochemistry and Molecular Biology
Dartmouth College, Thayer School of Engineering, Ph.D., Engineering—Optics
Duke University, Ph.D., Mechanical Engineering
Harvard School of Public Health, Ph.D., Biostatistics
Johns Hopkins University, Ph.D., Astrophysics
Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, Ph.D., immunology
Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Ph.D., nuclear Engineering
New York University School of law, J.D.
New York Univer- sity School of Medicine, M.D./D.O.
Pennsylvania State University School of International Affairs, M.A., international Affairs—Human rights
Princeton University,
Ph.D., Electrical Engineering
Stanford University,
Ph.D., Aerospace Engi- neering; Ph.D., Geophysics
Syracuse University,
M.A., Film
University of California, los Angeles, Ph.D., Biomedical Engineering
Universidad Com- plutense de Madrid, M.A., Classics and Ancient Mediterranean Studies and Spanish
University of Geneva (Switzerland), Ph.D., French and linguistics
University of Massa- chusetts Amherst, Ph.D., Polymer Science and Engineering
University of Michigan,
Ph.D., Pharmaceutical Sciences
University of Nebraska- lincoln, M.S., Food Science
University of Oxford, M.S., Global Health Science
University of Pennsylvania, D.V.M.
University of Pennsylvania law School, J.D.
University of Southern California, M.A., Broadcast Journalism
University of Texas at Austin, M.S., Orbital Mechan- ics (Aerospace Engineering)
University of Tubingen (Germany), German/Media Studies
University of Virginia, M.S., Accounting
Virginia Institute of Marine Science, M.A., Fisheries Science
Yale University, Ph.D., Microbiology</p>
<p>Heres an axample of where Penn State graduates took jobs last year.</p>
<p>Sample of Employers and Positions Accepted by 2009-10 Graduates:
Accenture, entry-level analyst
Allegheny ludlum,
application engineer
Altria Group, brand analyst
ARAMCO, research and development position
ARM Group,
environmental engineer
Bank of America Merrill lynch, invest- ment banking analyst
Bates White llC,
consultant
Citigroup, investment banking analyst
ConocoPhillips, major projects engineer
Deloitte Consulting,
business technology analyst
Ernst & Young, staff auditor
Fox Sports Net, producer
General Dynamics, Electric Boat Division, engineer
General Electric, financial management program
Goldman, Sachs & Co.,
financial analyst
Hershey Medical Center—Neonatal Intensive Care Unit, registered nurse
Hudson River Health Care, program coordinator
IBM, consultant Johns Hopkins
University Applied Physics lab, digital design engineer
KPMG, audit associate
Kraft, project engineer
l-3 Communications, Electron Devices, engineer
liberty Mutual,
iT analyst
lockheed Martin,
systems engineer
lutron Electronics,
project electrical engineer
Merck & Co., Inc.,
technical rotation program analyst
Morgan Stanley, Financial Sponsors Group, investment banking analyst
National Security Agency, contracting specialist
Nestl</p>
<p>State Schools and other schools like Penn State University, can get you where you want to be for a fraction of the cost of UPENN full price.</p>
<p>"For private four-year universities, the University of Pennsylvania boasts a 95 percent graduation rate. "</p>
<p>85 percent of Penn State students graduate within six years.</p>
<p>For Pittsburgh</p>
<h1>4-Year Graduation Rate: 57%</h1>
<h1>6-Year Graduation Rate: 76%</h1>
<p>Hmm,not so good.</p>
<p>However, it is your son. The truth is that this debate doesn’t matter. If your son is a smart,driven kid he will succeed even at “Podunk U/University of Phoenix” (as qdogpa has referenced)</p>
<p>I can neither blame, nor judge your decision. Yesterday,I too, heard that UPenn would not give me any money. So I dropped it and JHU off my list because I got into Columbia and since I’m paying about the same for all the U’s- I’m going to the highest ranked one with a name no one will confuse with Penn state" </p>
<p>However, I do encourage you too look at the other U’s he got into that ARE offering him money and not to just drop them. Sure state school can be gotten with a fraction of the price, but 50% in budget cuts to 9% of the university’s funding may make them decided that they just don’t need an honors program. </p>
<p>That said. It also depends on the course you are pursuing.</p>
<p>Lawyers,bankers recruit at top schools and are very prestige driven. If you want to be a college professor or a top researcher prestige is for you.</p>
<p>Engineers,doctors,nurses, for theses jobs it doesn’t really matter where you go to school, just whether you can get the job done.</p>
<p>No one can judge how much you care/don’t care about your kid. as long as your kid is happy and you are too- no one else matters.</p>
<p>Best of luck wherever you go.</p>
<p>If it’s Wharton and the student has no other top school acceptances, it may be worth it. </p>
<p>Otherwise I would go public. I’d rather graduate from Penn State (or one of the SUNYs) with a $240,000 savings fund than UPenn CAS/SEAS with no funds.</p>