<p>^I agree. Villanova only meets need for 15% students and gives very little in the way of merit, but it DOES have merit and OP’s scores/curriculum deserve recognition. So a phone call to their admissions office explaining VU is the #1 choice but they’re $25,000 short, can they look into her stats (give the numbers) and see if she’d qualify for any merit aid.
OP: Make the phone call WITHOUT telling your daughter, because it’d renew hope and if it’s crushed again it’ll be double hard.
You may want to look for a blog called “the college solution”, there’s a post titled “Asking for better merit aid scholarship” where the tactics outlined above netted $14,000/year. :)</p>
<p>“Nobody’s saying they wipe out the retirement accounts…but every little bit helps, a concept which seems to escape twoinanddone, who apparently thought I was saying saving on bottled water alone was supposed to cover the whole year’s costs.”</p>
<p>I’m not missing the point. I bring home 40% of my gross pay (the rest is all taxes, insurance, 401k), and then save about 33% percent of that for my kids to go to college. Of the things you lists, we do have cable and cell phones, but all the rest (okay, I do buy a case of water for $3 about once a month because our tap water isn’t ‘fine’) have long been gone. We have one 13 year old Honda Accord, no maid, no lawn service (because we don’t own a house). Could I cut more? Sure, but I choose not to and I don’t think the OP’s family should be reduced to living like they don’t have two cents to their name so that one child can be happy when there are perfectly good alternatives available. My sister went to an expensive LAC in 1973 that was 20% of our family of 8’s yearly income. It was horrible. No extra money to do anything at college, and no money for any of us at home. After one year she transferred to big instate for less than 1/10 the cost, and things were better.</p>
<p>I work in consumer finance. Hundreds of stories about student debt, parents over-borrowing, inability to qualify for homes, cars, grad school post undergrad come across my desk every day. NO ONE ever says ‘I wish I’d borrowed more and that my student loans were totally worth my parents having no retirement savings.’ No one. All anyone wants to know is how to get out from under all that debt.</p>
<p>I don’t think anyone should touch retirement accounts (most are underfunded, not overfunded) to pay for college, especially when there is another affordable school begging OP’s daughter to attend. If she hadn’t gotten accepted to VU, she would have been disappointed for a while, and then gone to one of the other schools.</p>
<p>Daughter doesn’t want to be engineer. VU grants lots of credit for AP. </p>
<p>“The parents of a kid with 2200 SATs, in the top 10% of her class, should not have to dig into retirement to send her to a good college”</p>
<p>Very true. </p>
<p>The mistake was not having a well-loved financial safety in their pocket. With her stats, she could have gotten full tuition merit at a number of schools.</p>
<p>How far is UDayton from your home? </p>
<p>“Mooop, the one person in your story who doesn’t have to sacrifice is the daughter who still gets to keep her prom dress and go to Villanova. Is it really fair for one person in the family to take half of the family income and get a new prom dress?”</p>
<p>I agree. And sorry, but 'Nova may be a very nice school, but it’s not the be all, end all. There are certainly other schools that the D would love. I don’t think everyone else has to live like paupers so that one D can go to a very pricey school THAT IS A LUXURY.</p>
<p>Frankly, if the D goes to Nova, next year we could be seeing posts from dad saying, “my D hates her school and now wants to transfer, but all the merit offers are now gone, and we’ll be full pay no matter where she goes.” Seriously, we’ve seen those posts a year after being told that X school was “the one” and the only one that “fit”. </p>
<p>@moooop
“Another thing to think about is minimizing your weekly donations to your local parish, and putting that in the college fund…it’s going to end up in the Catholic Church’s coffers either way, so what’s the diff if you give it to your parish in weekly offerings, or give it to Villanova U. in the form of tuition? (I’m Catholic, by the way)”</p>
<p>Well, if you are Catholic and know how things work, tuition at a Catholic univ is NOT going to the RCC’s coffers. That’s ridiculous. </p>
<p>If what you were saying is true, then all Catholics could send their kids to pricey Catholic univs, and instead of giving to their parish, give the money for tuition, and somehow the parish will still stay afloat. Wrong. You must have no idea of how money works within the RCC church</p>
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<p>Villanova doesn’t seem to have that generous of an AP credit policy, actually; at least not in comparison to state schools. You can’t use AP credits for core requirements there (which is where most students are really going to want to use them).</p>
<p>Many Catholic universities have strong core curricula; it is their educational hallmark. Nothing wrong with that in my view.</p>
<p>As an aside, we know of a couple of bright, on-the-ball kids who went to Scranton with good merit and liked it a lot.</p>
<p>It’s all about money because you actually have to PAY FOR IT. No escaping it no matter how much she wants it. And to be honest if any of my girls believed there was only one school that would make them happy, I would be concerned about their entitlement attitude or ability to adapt in this world. Your daughter is bright, driven, & giving… Surely she would know better than to put your retirement at risk. </p>
<p>The mistake was not having a well-loved financial safety in their pocket. With her stats, she could have gotten full tuition merit at a number of schools…</p>
<p>From what the father wrote, no other school will do. She HAS other financial safeties, she has other options. She could have applied to every school on the planet, but VU is the only one for her.</p>
<p>Agree. Not worth full price. Villanova is off our list because of zero merit aid. Other schools offering 50% tuition and honors programs. </p>
<p>There’s still time for her to apply to UDayton and UScranton; at a minimum she should give herself that choice. The schools are likely to be more generous than Nova yet are better than St Joe’s, Widener, etc. where she’d likely be bored out of her mind. She can still apply to Penn State. There are still a lot of choices within a half day’s drive. As you said, she could have gotten full tuition merit at several schools but at least she still has possibilities of admission and merit at other schools.
However it’s very possible Villanova doesn’t realize they’re the daughter’s first choice and so if the father calls and indicates they’re first choice but are $25,000 short, that may result in a merit aid offer. With her stats (top 10% at VIllanova), you’d think Villanova would have offered something, but they mustn’t have thought they were a top choice so they might not have wanted to “waste” a scholarship offer on her if they were sure she would go elsewhere.</p>
<p>My impression is that Villanova mainly meets 100% of need for athletes and African-American students (which are two categories that overlap in many cases). They try to overcome their reputation of being lily-white “Vanilla-nova”.</p>
<p>One of the lessons to learn from this discussion is to apply to some colleges that are one or two tiers lower in order to increase chances of merit aid. However, too many of those colleges shouldn’t be three tiers lower. The most selective university where my daughter was admitted would have been twice as expensive as the college she choose, which offered her 50% off merit aid. . It is true she is not as academically challenged as she would have been at the most selective choice, but she does have time to play a varsity sport as a freshman and to be involved in a sorority and many activities. </p>
<p>"And to be honest if any of my girls believed there was only one school that would make them happy, I would be concerned about their entitlement attitude or ability to adapt in this world. Your daughter is bright, driven, & giving… </p>
<p>Surely she would know better than to put your retirement at risk."</p>
<p>Two EXCELLENT points.</p>
<p>The first point about the claim that there is only ONE SCHOOL that will make a child happy is ridiculous. If so, then what will happen when it’s time to apply for JOBS??? Will she decline jobs because she thinks that only this OTHER job (that didn’t hire her) was the perfect job? Will she claim that she won’t be happy at the jobs where she has offers? </p>
<p>The four years of college will be over in a heartbeat. The long-lasting negative ramifications (debt for her, retirement acct reduced) will be long painful reminders of an emotional decision.</p>
<p>and, yes, the same thoughtful child wouldn’t put her parents retirement at risk…and would insist that they not do so. </p>
<p>I have “been there.” My kids had higher test scores and were Val and Sal of their classes. The older one was “certain” that he’d only be happy at one particular school (full price). We told him we weren’t going to pay full price because doing so would mean selling property, which we weren’t willing to do. He said the same things, “oh, I worked so hard,” (Val and NMF). In the end he went to our state flagship on nearly a free ride. He soon fell in love with his undergrad, and his younger brother happily went there as well. </p>
<p>I know it can be heart-tugging and painful to say “no” to kids who’ve been great kids, but big loans or digging into retirement accts is not the answer.</p>
<p>It’s time for everyone to put on the big boy and big girl pants. </p>
<p>I am not familiar with the schools being discussed here, but it seems the consensus is that there is a huge academic gap between Villanova and the remaining schools. If I were in the OP’s shoes, I would be feeling a sense of panic that maybe we didn’t do a good job researching schools and that my daughter would be “settling” at one of the other schools. (I’m not saying that you feel this way OP, just that I would be feeling this way). Given the advice of many generous posters here, it looks like there are schools that would offer merit aid and be “worthy” of her. If it were me, I might suggest to my kid to take a gap year to pursue these other opportunities. Perhaps that option is not very appealing, but just throwing that out there in case the OP is even a little worried that the schools that are left are not quality enough. </p>
<p>^m2CK, I think a problem is that OP’s daughter applied to Villanova and then to a bunch of schools that are wayyyyy below her actual level (the honors program at some of them is at the level of the bottom 25% of Villanova… and OP’s daughter is in the top 10% for Villanova!)</p>
<p>She just didn’t apply to any matchschool. Not sure whether it’s because the guidance counselor didn’t realize the problem or if she is willful and refused to consider any other school or if there were parameters we haven’t heard of.</p>
<p>In any case, neither her nor her parents must have run the Net Price Calculator (or her parents may have told her they’d “make it work” so she didn’t worry about it) so she figured Villanova was an academic match and all would be fine. </p>
<p>So, I don’t think it’s because she’s entitled, but rather that she really can’t see herself at those other schools - and I can totally understand considering the alternatives: brankrupting the family or attending a school that won’t challenge her…
Your son had the flagship’s honors college to fall back on - but OP’s daughter didn’t apply for the honors program at her flagship. In fact, as far as we know, she hasn’t applied to her flagship at all, because she wants to attend a smaller school (makes sense) and preferably a Catholic one. And that faulty strategy results in her not having the choice your son had.Why her counselor didn’t ask her to apply to math Catholic colleges and match/reach LACs nearby makes no sense to me. 
Imagine if your son’s choice, for his stats, was the “dream” college you can’t afford, or Jackson State, or West AL State, or Huntingdon.
I really do feel very bad for both OP and OP’s daughter.</p>
<p>There’s not only “one” school, there are other schools, many other schools, but she’s not applied to them.
I don’t know whether her parents made it a requirement or if she just chose to, but the strategy was faulty. </p>
<p>Fortunately <strong>it’s not too late yet</strong>, and as you said there’s UDayton not far, plus quite a few universities within a half day’s drive (probably 100 of them - there are over 100 just in PA, and if you add MD, Del, NJ, and NYS, Op’s daughter has lots of choices that will be both better than her current admissions and cheaper than Villanova.)</p>
<p>"^m2CK, I think a problem is that OP’s daughter applied to Villanova and then to a bunch of schools that are wayyyyy below her actual level (the honors program at some of them is at the level of the bottom 25% of Villanova… and OP’s daughter is in the top 10% for Villanova!)</p>
<p>She just didn’t apply to any matchschool. Not sure whether it’s because the guidance counselor didn’t realize the problem or if she is willful and refused to consider any other school or if there were parameters we haven’t heard of.</p>
<p>In any case, neither her nor her parents must have run the Net Price Calculator (or her parents may have told her they’d “make it work” so she didn’t worry about it) so she figured Villanova was an academic match and all would be fine."</p>
<p>I’m guessing that since the D’s stats were well-within the top 25% of Nova, there was some assumption that she’d get some merit.</p>
<p>I agree that the mix of schools on the app list seems inadequate. </p>
<p>I think they should try to identify some Catholic schools that would be very acceptable and would give merit. </p>
<p>It seems like the brother had to go somewhere that was affordable. Don’t know why the D would be treated differently. Was the brother miserable at his second choice school? If so, the issue may not have been that he was miserable because he didn’t go to his first choice. The second choice may have been poorly selected. </p>
<p>“Fortunately <strong>it’s not too late yet</strong>, and as you said there’s UDayton not far, plus quite a few universities within a half day’s drive (probably 100 of them - there are over 100 just in PA, and if you add MD, Del, NJ, and NYS, Op’s daughter has lots of choices that will be both better than her current admissions and cheaper than Villanova.)”</p>
<p>Oh good UDayton is still possible. Where else might work? Does the school have to be a basketball school?</p>
<p>"What I don’t know is why is it all about the money, why is it about the affordability… can it be about its the right thing to do, its the right fit, its the right thing down deep. As you can see, I am conflicted, my head says be smart, my heart says Go for it! "</p>
<p>The car analogy that someone used was perfect - except you are looking at a Ferrari, not a BMW. No one in their right mind would buy a Ferrari that they couldn’t afford just because they liked it more than any other car. </p>
<p>In this situation proper parenting means not letting your 18-yo buy the Ferrari. You can’t afford it and sending her into adulthood as a teacher with massive loans is doing a disservice to her. </p>
<p>Do not overlook Arcadia for an education major. The study abroad opportunities and connections for education jobs are very good there. She could do multiple semesters of study abroad. Even without the cost factor, Nova is just not the strongest school for her interests.</p>
<p>I’m chiming in with the experience of a friend whose daughter got accepted to Villanova, considering it her dream school. They were thrilled and were determined to make it happen for her even though they were solidly middle class and there was no aid awarded. </p>
<p>Unfortunately, they bit off more than they could chew financially. They started to feel the stress. They were still determined to make it work, but whenever they had to spend money for, say, a plane ticket home to California, they grit their teeth. They made little comments about finances being tight. In her sophomore year, their daughter started being affected. She felt guilty that her parents were sacrificing so much. She said maybe she should quit and come home. She may only have wanted reassurance that it was okay, but they eagerly jumped on her comment and said she could leave. She did, and promptly fell into a deep depression. </p>
<p>It’s been 10 years or so, and their daughter has moved on and is doing well. But it took her a long time to get back on track. And my friend has spent a lot of energy kicking herself for the way she encouraged her D to come home rather than encouraging her to stay. But it never would have worked for her to stay. </p>
<p>One possible moral is, if we as parents try to live outside our means to send our children to college, it will backfire in ways we don’t necessarily expect.</p>
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<p>But there is ALWAYS a “shadow of a doubt.” I really can’t believe people would suggest doing something so extreme to “make her dream come true.” On the other hand, the OP’s username is Walt Disney backwards. :)</p>
<p>lol - good catch, sally!</p>
<p>Perhaps, in discussions between the parents and student before making the application list, it should be clear that an acceptance without sufficient financial aid or scholarships should be treated as a rejection.</p>
<p>Of course, the price limits need to be discussed and net price calculators run before making the application list.</p>