Is Villanova University worth it?

Parents Forum
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<p>The OP and his family had set a budget for college. Was that budget reasonable? I think so but Mooops, for all his talk of couponing and weighing the value, thinks the smile on the daughter’s face is worth any price. I was unaware he knew the OP personally and knows that the OP is skiing in Vermont and golfing his way around the world. Even if OP is doing that, it’s his money and he’s the one who would have to give up the golf. He asked if VU was worth it to raid the 401k or go into debt, and most of us on here have said no. Mooop thinks no price is too high, except that OP daughter should go to CC for a year or two rather than St. Joseph or one of the other schools (because the CC is going to be so academically challenging?). That is an option. It seems like the other schools will be about $100k less than VU with the $25k/yr merit, and if the OP wants to take that from his retirement, he can. I just don’t think he should feel like he’s ruined his daughter’s life because he says no to her, that VU is too rich for his wallet, that he won’t pay more than he originally planned. I don’t think it was wrong to apply to VU. She liked it, wants to go there, and you never know if the money will appear, but sometimes it just doesn’t.</p>

<p>I set a budget for my kids of what I would pay. Can I afford more? Yes, but I think what I have agreed to pay is fair to everyone in our family, and saves my retirement fund. One child is a better student than the other, but does she deserve a ‘better name’ school? The not-so-great student would love to go to a drama school like NYU or CalArts, and those would be the best schools for her to really learn, to give her the best start on a career. The better student can get a very good engineering degree from a state school at a third the price of MIT or GaTech. Should I pay full COA for the one who needs it or for the one who ‘earned’ it by having good grades? My way is they each get the same amount (cost of in-state flagship) and I get to retire without having to eat cat food for the rest of my life.</p>

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<p>@2&1: Well, the better student can earn a merit scholarship and be in honors college at a lot of schools plus tippy top schools tend to consider you have financial need up to 180k, so it may be worth it for your first child to apply to MIT/Olin/HarveyMudd/CalTech. However the other one can’t really have a chance to break into drama if s/he isn’t at a good theater school (that an be UCincinnati as well as CalArts OOS BTW but it can’t be Kansas or Ole Miss.) However some top-level theater programs have performance-based scholarships, too. :slight_smile: So with in-state COA and merit, your children could be in a good place wrt college without making you eat catfood in your old age. :slight_smile: :slight_smile:
I do feel bad for OP’s daughter because she didn’t apply to her flagship and only applied to one university at the level of Villanova (which wasn’t even a reach school, rather a match school.) I feel bad because she was poorly advised or was quite stubborn and ended up with a college list that didn’t really offer alternatives. I feel bad because her GC should have made her run the NPCs. With her stats, she could have gotten merit aid at many schools (she could have applied to BC, Holy Cross, Shreyer…) Right now she’s stuck and it could have been prevented with simple steps. However, she’s not boxed into a corner yet: there are several solutions that were presented here.
And no matter what she still has choices if she applies to a few more schools but the window is closing fast. After that, she’ll have to wait till May 2 when the NACAC list of colleges that miscalculated yield is published.</p>

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<p>Actually, mooop, most kids actually understand the reality of financial limitations. They appreciate the effort their parents make to pay for college - even if it is not their initial dream school. Most end up happy at their affordable college and successful in life. I would guess that most students do not want to finish in 3 years and miss out on opportunities to do internships or study abroad. And the parents who can’t afford these schools can’t do so simply by canceling non-existent lawn or maid service. And the gym membership which keeps them fit is not really going to pay for the extra $25K. With more than one kid to send to college, it is quite likely that a car will be needed at some point. </p>

<p>The broader question is whether a college that is not ranked in the top 20 nationally is going to afford any better opportunities than other similar colleges that are more affordable. Is it worth never doing anything fun, never going on even an inexpensive vacation, or to the movies so a kid can go to their “dream school”? In most cases, the student has no real basis for the dream school designation. It is hard for parent and student to find out that hard work and savings for many years are not enough, but it is certainly no reason for long-term sadness. My guess is that you are a student whose parents are saying no. </p>

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<p>I have no idea if the OP can “afford” Villanova, but it’s clear he feels his family would be sacrificing beyond what he believes it is prudent to pay for his DD to attend there without significant merit money. </p>

<p>Villanova is a very good school, but there is nothing that sets it apart ACADEMICALLY to justify its expense for a student planning to become a teacher. And while I agree that it’s a step (or two) above St. Joe’s, I know many very fine students who did well at the latter and have gone on to various successes in life. In my neighborhood, where the bulk of the families are RC and most of their children attend parochial and private Catholic high schools, many have chosen St. Joe’s, Loyola Maryland, or Penn State as alternatives to Villanova (including my next-door neighbors, both of whom are 'Nova grads and sent four kids to Penn State). The kid across the street (who had perfect SAT scores, BTW) attended St. Joe’s and then Temple Law and is a very successful attorney today. No, St. Joe’s doesn’t have the ritzy feel or “clientele” of Villanova, but it has Big Five basketball and is solidly RC, although it’s Jesuit, not Augustinian like Villanova.</p>

<p>Not to pile on the OP, but like many of the posters here, I have no idea why this young woman applied to Widener and not West Chester or Penn State, the latter of which are well-known for their education grads.</p>

<p>We’re looking for merit money for our S14, as well, and while we know a young man (a commuter) who received a full four-year academic scholarship to Villanova, it’s quite well-known that the school is not generous with merit dollars or regular financial aid for that matter. It’s actually fairly notorious for gapping families. Thus, even though we liked the school a lot, we didn’t encourage our son to even apply. And mooop, our family already makes all those sacrifices you’re encouraging the OP to make. Why are you assuming he and his family aren’t already as well?</p>

<p>Why would anyone go into massive debt for Villanova? We’re not talking Notre Dame or Georgetown here. Unless the priority is to keep her very close to home, there are better options in terms of overall VALUE for a bachelor’s degree with the goal of becoming a teacher.</p>

<p>OP, did you give your DD a bottom line financially what you can realistically afford to pay for her? Is it $25,000/yr, $35,000/yr, $45,000/yr? My kid knows that if we can’t afford the schools he’s applied to, it’s as good as a rejection. I’m surprised your daughter doesn’t understand that too if that’s truly the case.</p>

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<p>M y o s, stop distorting what I said. Nowhere did I say vu at any cost. Re-read paragraph 7 of Long post above</p>

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<p>We’re talking about Villanova. I mean listen, we’re sitting here talking about Villanova, not MIT, not a Harvard, not a Yale, but we’re talking about Villanova. Not the type of school that I go out there and die for and treat it like it’s a dream school but we’re talking about Villanova man.</p>

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<p>Wrong, mom2, im a parent who can think outside the box. I’ll leave the defeatist group-think to u and ur buddies. U all have come up with zero viable advice except vu isn’t Harvard and debt is yucky. I think the op probably already knew those pearls of wisdom.</p>

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<p>moooop, you’re suggesting the young woman go to CC for a year or two, or St. Joe’s, and transfer. How is that fulfilling her dream of attending Villanova? Twisting herself into a pretzel to graduate from 'Nova? Sorry, I just don’t get it. Good school, but not worth all those machinations IMHO and the opinion of plenty of alums I know as well.</p>

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<p>Ad hominem is the refuge of the desperate. </p>

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<p>OMG…are you for real? My parents WERE those people who used creativity to “make dreams come true.” They made some pretty big sacrifices so I could attend my choice of the five top-20 private universities I was accepted to. And guess what I found at the school I chose? Some really wonderful, smart people, but also a lot of the “mouth breathers” I had been hoping to escape after high school. I made great friends and met my husband (now ex-husband) there, but overall I hated the pretentious culture. Academically I would describe it as a mixed bag–it was not nearly the intellectual environment I had hoped for. Nor did it magically open the door to career opportunities I wouldn’t have had at other schools. So my point is–even the best “dreams” usually get tempered with reality.</p>

<p>Mooop, maybe you would like to share your own perspective as a parent or as a former student who was offered (or denied) the chance to attend an expensive dream school. How did it all turn out for you? Your position might have more credibility if you gave us some context.</p>

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<p>On the debt level issues. If she goes into teaching there are multiple repayment options (income based, public service, and a program for teachers) which would reduce the payment to something close to affordable.</p>

<p>My bottom line is quite simple-- is it the right academic/social fit for my kids? If so then I will figure out the finances to make it work. </p>

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<p>I think Moooop is a frustrated mouth-breather.</p>

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<p>I was damn creative making my kids dreams come true. But if and when my creativity ran its course, or if I’d not been in good health, or if hadn’t had a generous corporate benefits package at the time (including the 401K match, etc.) my kids and I would have sat down and mapped out plan B. Which is where this family is right now- plan B.</p>

<p>There is a time and a place for figuring out how much you can save on homeowners insurance by increasing your deductible- we did. There’s a time and a place for recognizing that your whole life insurance is throwing off enough cash every year so you can stop paying the premiums- we did. There’s a time and a place for driving the aged Honda up to the dealer’s lot and saying “I’m keeping this car another 5 years. Help me figure out what I need to patch and fix in order to do that”. Etc.</p>

<p>But that doesn’t yield 25K per year. The tweaking and the belt tightening and the deferred maintenance and all that jazz can help you bridge a 5K gap or an 8K gap, or just help the younger sibs not have to give up ballet or speech therapy in order to make the eldest’s college a reality. But to claim that someone else can clip enough coupons here is just crazy- or really bad math. </p>

<p>And Moops- my own parents made MY dreams come true. Scrimped, saved, and like good first generation Americans insisted that we work as hard as we could to achieve a college education. But the other gift they gave us was that they didn’t need to move in with us when they retired. Taking care of your long range needs as parents is every bit as important as paying for a college education for the kids. And when they are 45 years old and have their own family and their own issues- NOT having to bail out destitute mom and dad will be the gift that keeps on giving.</p>

<p>Moops- do the math- how long would it take a 50 year old parent to replenish a 401K that gets raided to pay for college…</p>

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<p>I fulfilled all academic dreams with no debt. Did some unorthodox things to pay for it all. Am doing same for my kids. I spent 3 yrs at dream undergrad instead of 4, and it was fine. 2 grad degrees paid for by employer.</p>

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<p>Moops- if among the unorthodox things you are doing for your kids includes raiding your retirement plan to pay for Villanova, methinks you didn’t learn so much at your dream undergrad.</p>

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<p>Wow, only 47 posts and you think you are suddenly bringing new ideas to the community. </p>

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<p>Blossom, is that the best you can come up with? What, no diarrhea jokes like your witty sidekick?</p>

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<p>moooop, I’m going to hazard a guess and speculate that your income is substantially higher than OPs. That, or your avatar suggests some, er, “creative” ways to come up with the funding of your kids’ educations. </p>

<p>I’m not even sure what you’re advocating at this point, that any “dream school” is worth the sacrifice to make our darling kiddos happy? It’s not like the young woman doesn’t have other options, which the OP listed in his initial post, and many others have suggested. You’re claiming nobody offered any helpful advice aside from you. That’s just not true. </p>

<p>Oh, and will you be picking up the tab for OP’s daughter if something happens to him and he can no longer pay the bills?</p>

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<p>Blossom - great post! </p>

<p>Mooop glad it works for you, but don’t assume that others have not thought about creative ways to scrimp and save and still can’t make up the difference without wiping out retirement savings or short-changing younger kids. </p>

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<p>Sax, I showed the op how to cut debt in half by reducing time at vu by 1 year. What did u do?</p>