<p>“Actually, you know what, in that case I DID mean dressed up. As I used it in reference to feeling awkward. TO ME cute jeans, a cute sweater, a cute top, and cute flats IS relatively dressed up. That is fairly above what I normally wear (which is old jeans, t-shirts/hoodies, and tennis shoes).”</p>
<p>And hearing that it’s “awkward” to be dressed like that tells me about the kinds of situations you’ve been exposed to. It reminds me of when my then 10 yo son found it “awkward” on the occasions where he had to put on a pair of khakis (like going to religious services). Well, part of my job as a parent was to expose them to enough situations where better dress was called for, so they wouldn’t have that oh-I’m-so-uncomfortable-and-awkward reaction to a situation that called for it. So now I know that my D and S know how to present themselves when the situation calls for it, and not be all oh-I’m-so-itchy-I’m-not-used-to-this, which I think comes across as immature. </p>
<p>If you’re “awkward” in something a casual as nice jeans, sweater and flats, then you’re going to avoid it, and you’re going to come across as awkward in an internship or situation that calls for it. Why would I have wanted that for my kids?</p>
<p>My S wears jeans, tshirts and sweatshirts 99% of the time like any other college kid, but he is president of a campus organization that brings high visibility speakers to campus. So now he knows intuitively - at the campus activities fair, wear the polo or sweater instead of the tshirt. When greeting the speaker’s reps, he knows what to wear. When introducing the speaker, he knows he’ll wear (at a minimum) nice khakis, if not a suit (the speaker will likely be in a suit). It’s natural; he doesn’t have to think about it, and he won’t come across as awkward-little-boy-in-his-first-big-boy-suit. I’m sorry, I think that’s part of a parent’s job to show their children how to be at ease in things / situations other than sweats and sneakers.</p>
<p>"Agreed. It’s one reason why several Japanese friends who came from other areas where they’re more casual have poked fun at Tokyo and Tokyoites for that demonstrated “pretentiousness” and the much greater expense to be there in relation to other parts of Japan. "</p>
<p>You misunderstood me. I don’t find it pretentious at all. I was in Ginza last night. It was fun to shop in the elegant department stores and see a lot of people who paid attention to their personal style, whether or not it would be my own style. There is nothing “pretentious” about it, except in the eyes of people who want to be reverse snobs and claim some moral high ground for being lackadaisical in the personal appearance.</p>
<p>You’re not going to have an “issue” per se, but it’s a social capital issue IMO. It is clear as a bell to me which ones of my junior employees are comfortable with and can ease into “better” situations (which in my case would be interacting with clients at a business casual level, above our casual dress level) and which ones are going to come across awkwardly a
In how they present themselves. I can tell who has social polish and aplomb, and part of that is indeed their attitude towards dress. I know who’s been raised to know better. And it doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with money.</p>
<p>I cited NYC and LA because they come closest to serving as the American analogue of how Tokyo is often viewed by Japanese living outside of that city/metropolitan area in terms of caring about fashion/appearances and for being much more expensive places to live in than average. </p>
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<p>That’s just as valid of a personal style as any other. It also doesn’t necessarily mean those who prefer that style were raised in a barn as you put it. :)</p>
<p>romani - you are working part time as a student, right? I am sure you are doing a fine job, but why would it surprise you that you would be promoted when you graduate from college? Even with new graduates, if they are not promoted or given more responsibility after a year or two then it is a very clear message.</p>
<p>Several thoughts have emerged while I have read over the 810 posts. Does anyone remember the old Verbal Advantage commercials that said something like people judge you by the way that you speak. And right or wrong, they also judge you by your appearance. If they didn’t I suppose that we could all wear just shapeless, colorless bags that do not distinguish us in any way. </p>
<p>From several years of lurking and sometimes posting, I have figured out that I am one of the older posters at this time. I started school when there were strict dress codes. I wore dresses/skirts to class because it was required—and it was stupid. Pennsylvania in the middle of February can be downright miserable but fashion and college rules dictated that we wear uncomfortable clothes in order to appear ladylike. </p>
<p>Twenty-five years ago, when I went to the local theater, almost all of the women wore dresses/skirts (and pantyhose). I was not a rebel so I wore what everyone else wore. Tonight I am going to the theater and I will be comfortable–and I will not look out of place. I am grateful to those brave souls who dared to break the fashion rules. What is acceptable now only became acceptable because someone was willing to accept the censure of the fashion police and be comfortable.</p>
<p>I think skirts are way more comfortable than pants. I don’t miss the nylons, but I do worry that eventually my legs will reach I point where I will need to cover them in order to feel that I look good.</p>
<p>And of those who fought against those pre-late '60s dress codes/norms were the hippie parents of a HS classmate who were active in one of the '60s hippie/counterculture protest movements. </p>
<p>One factor which inspired the father to join was being thrown out and barred from attending a morning college class for the day merely for forgetting to put on a tie when he was an NYU freshman sometime in the fall of 1964.</p>
<p>OF, yes it is surprising considering that 1 position is specifically and only for students and I would be promoted to a completely different job and the other two jobs have only 2 and 1 full time positions for what I’d be promoted to, over about 35 employees at one job and 20 at the other- many with people that have worked much longer than me. So yes, it its surprising, thanks.</p>
<p>Lots of them commute to work and home on the train wearing their work jeans. Does it really bother you that they do not bring a nice pair of jeans to wear on the train every day?</p>
<p>Cobrat, we are interested in your opinions, not the countless anecdotes of classmates from your high school, their parents, classmates from Oberlin, and their parents. It seems that every opinion you ever have is sourced through someone else. </p>
<p>In any case, your analogy to being barred from a class for not having a tie doesn’t apply here. We are not talking about being barred from grocery stores or Starbucks. We are talking about personal presentation here. Not conformity to norms.</p>
<p>ucbalumnus - whatever makes you comfortable…but yes, if I was wearing a nice suit and someone had dirty jeans on the train, I would prefer not to sit next to that person. Common sense.</p>
<p>When my kids used to dance 6-8 hours on Sat, I used to make them clean up and change into something different if we were going out, even if they were leaving straight from the studio.</p>
<p>I agree that skirts are more comfortable in the summer and in the winter it is easier to layer tights and leggings underneath skirts than pants without looking overstuffed.
However if your skirt is above your knees then you have to remember not to crawl around on the floor, so I still love my jeans.</p>
<p>When I was growing up we didn’t have warm tights and leggings, I had to wear snow pants underneath my dresses in the winter & then we had to take them off when we got to school.
Horrible time for tactile defensive people.
Petticoats and undershirts? Weren’t the woven cotton socks that didnt stay up and bunched underneath your feet in your stiff leather saddle shoes bad enough?
:(</p>