It is OK to choose the cheaper, In-State over the more expensive

Parents Forum
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<p>
[quote]
This whole idea that there is this 'perfect fit' and 'dream' school (house, career, husband, wife, children--fill in the blank) I just find bizarre. Are all you people living in Lake Woebegone?

[/quote]
I think the more specific one can be in describing their desired college the closer they can come to developing a short list of schools that will be excellent fits ... it may not be one school but there may be a very short list of schools that really fit better. This involved listing both things you are sure about and those you are not. For me 25 years ago this worked very well ... my search went roughly in this order ...</p>

<ul>
<li>I started thinking about schools and knew I wanted to be in the northeast and was pretty sure the school should be in a college town (a thought verified when I visited schools)</li>
<li>I had 4 possible majors and had no leading contender among them ... this by itself cut the list down to a fairly short list ... the top schools on the list were MIT, Penn, Cornell, and RPI (CS, Eng, Arch, and Math)</li>
<li>Using my test scores, grades, major choices, and geography choices use a computer program to help identify target schools ... it spits out Cornell and MIT (I used the PR system last year and it spit out Cornell as my #1 match)</li>
<li>I was a pretty good runner and the first colleges to contact me were Cornell and Dartmouth ... this lead to some research that showed IVY / high-end DIII was the best fit for me athletically.</li>
<li>I go on my visits and definitely decide I want to be in a college town and also absolutely LOVED everything about Cornell ... Ithaca, the campus, surounding area, the students, the track program, the classes, etc </li>
<li>Easiest decision I ever made in my life ... going to Cornell</li>
</ul>

<p>Cornell was an absolute terrific fit for me ... are there other schools out there where I would have thrived - absolutely ... are there other schools that might have been as terrific - I'm sure they are some ... but no one will ever convince me that I wasn't incredibly lucky to end up with such a great fit and that it was a pretty unique fit.</p>

<p>I had a pretty long and specific list of requirements ... and if one does I think they may have a pretty short list of schools that would be a terrific fit ... there are lots of other schools that also would be great to attend but there are a few that are a step above.</p>

<p>Your mileage may vary</p>

<p>PS - My wife and I drove our real estate agent batty when we moved to a bigger house in the same town ... it took a little over a year to find our new house ... we had a detailed list of what we wanted which was pretty picky (including a good driveway for a basketball hoop and what kind of landing/hallway the second floor had) ... we found a house that met 11 of 12 of the things on our house ... we found a house that is a TERRIFIC fit (are there others out there ... sure, but not many ... there are tons of houses in which we would have been very happy)</p>

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<p>Suze, you are so right about that. I even knew a few firms that picked up nonminorities from Howard because it looked good on Martin-Dale Hubbell (again I'm talking about law. <em>sigh</em>)</p>

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<p>3togo, Here, here. Now that kids/parents are paying "house or mortgage" money for college, they better darn well be picky and find a perfect fit. </p>

<p>I have another story. I talked to a friend today who went to a small school much like the one that offered my daughter a full tuition and fees ride. She like my daughter is African-American and like my daughter, the small school recruited her and gave her a full ride because they were trying to diversify. After I told her my daughter turned down the offer, she told me that the school she went to was the worse experience in her life and she would never want that for her kid. It was very similar demographically, very small minority population, no really big towns any where nearby, the kids were all from rich families (pumps and pearls were part of the every day wardrobe) and they drank for fun. She said that she still has some bitterness about it and that it affected all of her choices including what she majored in. </p>

<p>After hearing her story I breathed a sigh of relief and thanked God that I'd made the right decision because that was exactly what I'd feared for my daughter. I wanted her to come out of undergrad with the confidence that she could be a doctor or anything else she wanted to be. In the end we passed up money for a better fit and if I end up paying for it for the rest of my life, so be it.</p>

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<p>I think that it's true that the choice made at this point - expensive prestige school vs. less expensive state school - does make a difference down the line - both ways. If a kid's future is going to be in an elite, high income, long work hour area like investment banking or big firm legal practice then investing in the expensive school will pay off. It will be harder - not impossible, but definitely harder - to succeed in those kinds of careers if the student opts for Nowhere State U. On the other hand, if the student's future is in being a family- or community-oriented adult, such as a teacher, Dad/Little League coach, stay at home Mom, etc, the weight of those college loan payments may make it difficult - not impossible, but harder - to live the kind of life he or she would enjoy most. The problem is, few 18 year olds (or their parents) have that clear of a crystal ball. I tell my kids that when I was their age, I thought what would make me happy in life was to be rich and famous and drive a cool car. It wasn't until I got really old (as they now perceive me to be) that I realized that what actually makes me happy is spending time with my kids, building things with my hands, and working at a job where every once in a while I get to actually help people in a meaningful way - none of which translates into wealth or fame. And I'm perfectly happy driving a dented 8 year old minivan.<br>
Of course, I went to college and law school back in the day when Boalt Hall was a top 10 law school and tuition money could be fished out of the sofa cushions. Now even that "public" law school has $22,000/year tuition. I guess we don't need any legal aid or public interest lawyers any more, now that society is perfect...</p>

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<p>Jack, I have to admit that I live on a picture perfect campus in a picture perfect town. Getting into this school was a dream come true for me and most here, perhaps it's why we continue to dream. We talked about this in a philosophy class I took. By virtue of being here, we are from families that dream big. While dreaming big can certainly have consequences, it can also produce happy results. There is much evidence that thinking positive thoughts produces positive results. People who are prayed for while in surgery have statistically better outcomes.</p>

<p>There is certainly a negative side to not keeping ones dreams in perspective. A boy at my school killed himself a few years ago when Yale recinded his admission when he was caught drinking. I see obsession in some posters on this board concerning college and in a few kids at my school, but frankly those kids tend to be parent driven and from specific cultures.</p>

<p>To insinuate that there is something wrong with dreaming and aspiring to a life where your hopes are manifested is unfair. Some people have greater capacities for happiness, for believing and staying resolute than others. For not letting life's little dissapointments become their reality. Let us dreamers dream, Jack. Many thanks to my philosophy and other teachers for helping me believe.</p>

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<p>And BTW, how is a dream school "external", or a dream partner or career? They are a central part of your being.</p>

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<p>Kluge: "I guess we don't need any legal aid or public interest lawyers any more, now that society is perfect..."</p>

<p>I hear ya. S wants to be a public interest lawyer, wants to use his future education to fight poverty and other things that have already been solved. Silly boy.</p>

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<p>Kluge, There is a lot of talk about fit in CC. When I read your posts and others by UC graduates, whether I agree or disagree, I understand them. When I read posts from some of the graduates of the "private elites", I just don't get it.</p>

<p>Reflecting over twenty-five years later, I guess the UCs were the right fit for me. :)</p>

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<p>Suze: I think I stated that one can still dream big, but the point I tried to make is that the capacity for happiness is created from within (oops..sorry.. is that a platitude?). When a person depends on something so external as the "perfect dream school" for his/her happiness, then--yes--I think that's a serious problem. I'm thrilled that you're at your dream school on the perfect campus with the dream philosophy classes, but did you ever stop to think that perhaps you are just the type of creative, energetic, and imaginative person who would, in fact, be happy anywhere? Those who can't be and who don't see the value in themselves first are doomed, I feel. Look at the Yale boy who got the dream school yanked out from under him..he had nothing but himself to fall back on..and because he relied on that external 'dream' and, perhaps, found his self-worth only in that...well..you see where it got him. I really don't mean to sound jaded or come across with a lot of psycho babble...but life really isn't a fairytale full of dreams. Dream big, for sure, but don't have your life depend on those externals. There's so much more to life than that. I honestly don't believe a 'dream school' or a 'dream career' is a "central part of your being." I guess that's where you and I differ.</p>

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<p>I would agree that the unfortunate suicide could have been the result of valuing the wrong things about Yale and about himself. However, I don't think that those who dream about a certain college are all valuing the wrong things. The drive can certainly be internal and I think it is with mature candidates who have taken the time to study schools. While we have a slew of applicants to top colleges at my school, we don't have people applying to every ivy for the sake of going to an ivy. Most have a focus on a school for what they dream of studying and who they dream of studying under. </p>

<p>As for the prince, it would just be amazing because the idea of going through life with a partner who shares the fiber of you is indeed a dream. Unfortunately, I have not seen a lot of people find this so I consider it a dream that will be much more elusive than ending up at the right college. In a poll of our class (the teacher did not like this one) nor one student thought their parents were deeply in love or soul mates!! So sad!</p>

<p>The career again that I can be passionate about, being good enough and credentialed enough to have choices, all of that I see as internal fulfillment.</p>

<p>I have been to several schools in my life so I do know that I can be fine anywhere but I'm certainly happier here among amazing peers and more than amazing teachers than I was anywhere else. I am still stoked four years later by the accomplishment of making the dream of being here come true. I still pinch myself some days after an especially good class and I still thank my parents for the sacrifice it is for them to send me here.</p>

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<p>Suze, that is the saddest thing I have heard in awhile!
I'm here to tell you there are people who meet a life partner who is a soul mate, best friend, complementary person - whatever you want to call it, and remain happily married as long as the good Lord leaves us here! Not all the money or material advantages or educational advantages on earth will make up for so many kids who haven't seen love demonstrated in their families - I'm sure some are underestimating their folks, but still!</p>

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<p>Not one person thought their parents were deeply in love or soul mates??? Wow, that IS sad. About how big was that class, Suze?</p>

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<p>Quote: In a poll of our class (the teacher did not like this one) not one student thought their parents were deeply in love or soul mates!! </p>

<p>I think this sample proves the point of the posters who speak out against throwing all economic concerns out for the romantic notion of the "soul-mate" school.</p>

<p>On the other hand people can be romantic about all sorts of things. I am romantic about economic justice and peaceful foreign relations. This might require saving $180k on college expenses, as Mini might say.</p>

<hr>

<p>Two 60 year old guys are having quite a few drinks in a bar.</p>

<p>Guy A finally asks Guy B if he has ever been married. </p>

<p>B: "No.
A: "I guess you never met the perfect woman?
B: "Yes, I did"
A: "You did!! What happened?
B: "She was looking for the perfect man".</p>

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<p>Texdad, Nice.</p>

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<p>The class was only eight or nine. However, the teacher did bring in some interesting studies the next day. One showed that most adults married more than 10 years rated their marriage under 5 on a one to ten scale. The even more interesting study said that 75% of parents of grown kids were not happy with the way their kids turned out!! Now there's a couple of things to look forward to!!!!</p>

<p>Texdad, I do wonder what is worth what to parents. This whole discussion made me call both of my parents today (yes, divorced!!) and express the depth of my appreciation. Believe me, they have both (plus new spouses) stopped taking vacations, buying cars and all the rest to send my sister and I to dream schools. They will not retire early. They started this 4 years earlier than college at about the same cost of a private college for each of us.</p>

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<p>Wow! I feel like I won the brass ring! I'm not sure what I would rate my marriage - that is sort of a work in progress for almost 24 years now, but DH is at least a 9.5!</p>

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<p>One has to wonder if the disatisfaction shown in the studies re: marriage has to do with the fact that so many people focus on "perfect". (Of course I'm reminded of Marite's post similar to this a while back). When "the dream" is shown to have flaws and nicks, the people who focus on the dream become very disillusioned. Perfect hubby left his underwear on the floor--I guess we're not in love.</p>

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<p>Anyone see the front page of USA Today,</p>

<p>"Wanted: CEO, no Ivy required"</p>

<p>From the article:
"A survey by the Wharton School at the Ivy League's University of Pennsylvania indicates the trend extends back 25 years. In 1980, 14% of CEOs at Fortune 100 companies received their undergraduate degrees from an Ivy League school. By 2001, 10% of CEOs received undergraduate degrees at one of the eight Ivies: Brown, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth, Harvard, Princeton, University of Pennsylvania and Yale. The percentage of CEOs with undergraduate degrees from public colleges and universities shot up from 32% in 1980 to 48% in 2001."</p>

<p><a href="http://www.usatoday.com/money/companies/management/2005-04-06-cover-ceos_x.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.usatoday.com/money/companies/management/2005-04-06-cover-ceos_x.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>"I am romantic about economic justice and peaceful foreign relations. This might require saving $180k on college expenses, as Mini might say."</p>

<p>Or spending it - but perhaps a little differently than folks normally think about. We are all embedded in our own culture, and there are no individual solutions to global problems, and people get to play with the hand they dealt. The only thing that comes with the territory is the responsbility to give back to the degree that one's success is a result of an accident of birth. And for most folks, if you have the $180k, there are aren't many things you can better spend it on (easily) than your kids! (Chances are they'll end up with it anyway.)</p>

<p>One of the reasons I am concerned (perhaps overly) about the quality of education offered at prestige colleges and universities (I went to 3 of 'em, and my d. is at one) is because I know folks from there are future decisionmakers and opinionmakers for our entire society. So we have a much bigger stake in what goes on there, whether we or our kids attend or not.</p>

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<p>Texdad: Yes, indeed.</p>

<p>Suze: I'm curious..what dream school do you attend? Maybe you posted, and I just missed it. And I really hate to do this, because I know I'm gonna be blasted for it.. but, I surely hope that money your parents are spending is worth it. However, I'm guessing that, though the philosophy courses may be heaven, the English classes leave something to be desired: " . . . they have both stopped taking vacations . . . to send my sister and I . . ." That should, in fact, be "my sister and ME," not I. I'm sorry. All this talk about big price tag/prestige/perfect/dream schools equal a superior education, with a more challenging peer group.... well...I just couldn't let that one pass.</p>