<p>Interesting article Workingfor Blue. I'll ruffle a few feathers here...</p>
<p>The myth that these Ivy folks are drivers and decision makers continues to evaporate. If that article and others reflects the current trends based on middle agers imagine how different the world will be in 30 years when our kids are running the show. (or not if they prefer to do otherwise) Diversity and globalization continue to change the world and I wonder if the white upper class, and their wannabe counterparts, are holding on tight to the last few bastions that translate for them into privilege.</p>
<p>For the 99.9% of US citizens that are doing just fine without their Ivy credentials and for the majority of CC students that are going elsewhere---you are the majority. If you are one of the kids currently describing intense depression because you believe you are doomed for not getting accepted there---you have been sold a myth---you can be quite happy and successful in life without it. Its primarily the quality of your relationships that defines your happiness so better to go where money/power may be a little less important so you get a grip on what a full life encompasses. Look how a poster above pushed back on the evidence noted of the dramatic drop in law/medical school admits from the Ivys by pointing out that they must have gone to Wall st because thats where the money is--so there you go with the priorities. Better to follow the cash since why on earth would you help save lives through medicine if the salaries have decreased. Hmmm...... In my world I am starting to see a backlash where as the majority, reflected in this and the other posted articles, of leaders in various fields are not only unimpressed by name schools but may actually think it insulates the student to the point that they may bring less value to the table in terms of managing diverse relationships. Some fields mentioned here sound like the few exceptions. I find it intriging that many of the Ivy grads that post on these boards have no current child in or coming up on college yet they are here week after week commenting on every thread where a parent/child asks if its "OK to get a degree from a so-called less prestigious school". If you look at the percentage of Ivy grads compared to the percentage of posts from them you really have to wonder. I'm happy for the students that find that environmnet to be a "fit" but many of the posts of these students seem to concentrate on what the degree will get for them in terms of power and finances instead of what it will allow them to contribute to the world or on the learning process in and of itself. </p>
<p>Since the Ivys have an entire topic board on CC just for them I'd really like it if the other voices can have a chance here without getting drowned out by the "I'm better than you" stream of consciousness that seems to be an underpinning of some of these posts.</p>
<p>Jack, I go to Phillips Academy, where grammar and spelling, sans spell check, are not my forte.</p>
<p>Dogs, there's something so bitter about your anti ivy posts, I have to admit when reading them I always wonder what happened in your life to make you so obviously hate elite schools and their graduates. There really are many who seek to make the world a better place and love these schools for what can be gained in terms of knowledge and not power.</p>
<p>ONLY $49k/year for GW Law?? Geez, I should have applied there! ;) I say that somewhat seriously, as most city schools are $55,000/year. My "cheap" school is $40k/year.</p>
<p>ariesathena, that's $49k for GW undergrad. I don't remember what the tuition was when I was there from 1998-2002, but I worked full time and was able to pay my tuition taking out $18,500 in federal loans each year (for 4 years.)</p>
<p>ariesathena, that's $49k for GW undergrad ($38k for tuition, the rest room, board and fees.) I don't remember what the tuition was when I was at the law school from 1998-2002, but I worked full time and was able to pay my tuition taking out $18,500 in federal loans each year (for 4 years.)</p>
<p>dogs, I agree with you. The Clinton administration where there were more Ivy types, the Bush administration seems to be the opposite.
Cheney did not graduate from Ivy and neither is Rice.</p>
<p>Its the dominance of the IVY point of view that I think needs to be tamed. If you fully read the IVY "better than you" posts on just about every thread where a student, or parent for that matter, is trying to get a little support for choosing another type of school you'll see how much they need some reality checks otherwise you'll continue to see the intense sadness some of these posters seems to feel so I personally think they could use some hope and encouragement. BTW, since you "wondered", I attended no name U for undergrad since my mother was a recent widow and it felt right to stay close to home. My Masters came from a school that was 80% minority so as a white person it was an unbelievably important and life altering experience for me. My Doctorate, fairly recent, is from an IVY. Chose all 3 schools for personal reasons having nothing to do with prestige, an adjective I find over used on these boards. I hardly find myself feeling bitter but I can see how you would get that but I'd love it if the 99% of non Ivy kids on this board could for once have a thread about the pluses of their type of education without some other folks poking in with stories of how their career path will be so much harder to develop if they "lack" these credentials. How does that help them feel any better or is the point to do the opposite? Doesn't it ever make you wonder too?</p>
<p>Cangel & Jack,
In reading your responses to Suze, along with mine, its clear that value differences run deep. I have a few friends who have sent their kids to boarding schools and my values dictate that I see this as sad and depriving their children of certain psychological needs. Obviously the poster, in what is considered a so-called "elite" boarding school feels grateful that his parents sent him there. So we all have different circumstances driving our responses. To sum up my thoughts on this thead----again, to the 99.9% of non-Ivys here---your life is not defined by your degree. Do well, prosper of its in your nature, help others and if you do decide that the so-called elite education is the best fit for you, be kind to others and please don't feel or act superior. Be one of many Ivy grads who "give back" to the community and rarely if ever mention their "name" school and certainly never in a way that can be perceived as "snobish".</p>
<p>Also there is almost not reason good enough to kill yourself. Education is especially not one of them. My friend who lives in my dorm was talking to me one day when I was stressing out about academics and staying the weekend in. She said she had to go out or she would go crazy. She told me about how her high school valedictorian up and killed himself one day because he was so stressed out and lonely. Now I still don't go out every weekend but I know that there are more important things in life that the best GPA/school/whatever. There shouldn't be so much emphasis put on grades rather than your own life.</p>
<p>I also agree with dogs. The elitist attitude is sometimes very sick but if kids got into these schools and they fit and they're happy and affording it, there is no reason to be concerned. I went to a private school part of my life and I find no reason to ever go private again if public offers similar or better choices at a lower cost. Yeah there is a prestige factor in going to the private schools around me instead of the public ones but I don't know if those kids are doing any better for the money they spent. So I have much against private schools as well because they really are a waste of money. What's in a name?</p>
<p>Dogs, I attend the other Phillips, Andover. Today's boarding schools, the top ones anyway, are filled with kids who want to be here. Competition to get in is about like that of top colleges. Most of us could never get what we get here at home. We live in a 24/7 learning environment with some of the smartest kids from all over the world. Our course handbook could easily be confused with that of a college. We have top coaches and music and art faculty, most of whom live on campus and can be visited anytime. There aren't a lot of cliques or nastiness because everyone is mature and is here to learn and have positive fun. It's just hard to put into words how much different this is than even a good private school at home (which for me is NYC which has many good ones). As for our family needs, we are at home roughly 6 months a year including 3 month summers, 3 week long breaks in winter and spring and week breaks and long weekends. There are several parents events and parents can visit anytime. When we're home we have no homework, ECs or sports practice. My mom says she gets more quality time now!!</p>
<p>CC is mostly discussions of top colleges. That's how it defines itself. I can understand how reading all this Harvard or bust stuff could negatively effect those who have different college interests or want to go to an ivy but don't have the stats. But isn't complaining about the average discussion here kind of like going to a Republican site and expecting it to reflect Democrat values?</p>
<p>suze: I realize you directed this to 'dogs,' but your comment that "CC is mostly discussions of top colleges...that's how it defines itself" is slightly off. And as dogs pointed out in his earlier post, .... the Ivys do indeed have an entire topic board on CC just for them, and I agree that it would be refreshing and insightful "if the other voices can have a chance here without getting drowned out by the "I'm better than you" stream of consciousness that seems to be an underpinning of some of these posts." Perhaps inadvertently, suze, you point out what is problematic with these boards. You are suggesting that CC is solely a venue for those with Ivy aspirations, and--consequently--we shouldn't even be looking for CC postings (and posters) to reflect anything else. Now that really is a problem. The point, too, is that there are many many colleges and universities out there that are incredible and offer amazing educational opportunities.</p>
<p>Jack, I think CC was started as an ivy counseling business. Regardless, the site clearly draws very motivated students, many of whom have great stats. One thing I believe is that the singleminded interest in ivies may be due to poor college counseling. Someone who goes to a large public school generally has a counselor who barely knows them and can't take the time to suggest great programs for their interests. So the students just think top schools are ivies, hence the crazy approach so many have of applying to them all.</p>
<p>We have great counseling at my school. The counselor studies your file, sees what your interests are, what electives you've taken, where your strengths are, what summer programs you've been to. So if you've taken 2 languages in high school they'll talk to you about the language studies at Middlebury. If physics is a strength, Caltech. For the all around student being an Echols Scholar at UVA could well be a better fit than most ivies. So no one ends up blindly applying to 8 schools that have little in common or less to offer you than other places. Of course if you want a great math program there's Princeton and Wharton is the best for business so ivies often do make sense for top students.</p>
<p>But few get the benefit of this kind of counseling. It's really no different than anything else society has created a demand for through media images and such. Top school=ivies. Top clothes=Chanel. Top car=Ferrari.</p>
<p>All of that was to say that I wouldn't expect the focus on ivies on this site or among high achievers worldwide is about to change anytime soon. So for someone to post over and over with anti ivy sentiments and try to change minds is probably an excercise in futility.</p>
<p>It's not anti-Ivy. These posts are to tame down expectations from kids that if they got a degree from IVY, they will be all set for life. Far from it. Just hope HS kids don't buy into the idea, getting burnt out getting to an Ivy and getting burnt out before getting an undergraduate degree. However, graduate school is where the degree really matters. Eventhough, I know of people graduate from Harvard MBA, had to do loan/mortgage(vocational, community college stuff) to survive during the dot com burst.</p>