Plea for Parents Starting The College Process

Parents Forum
1

<p>From one high school senior to the rest of CC... I urge you, as your sons and daughters start applying and looking for schools: don't let the sticker shock of a school effect whether or not your son/daughter goes to their dream school.</p>

<p>My parents and I always decided that I would go to the the BEST school I would get into (was aiming for UCLA, Northwestern, Columbia) with no pressuer on the cost of college. Well, over a year later my parents are pressuring me to go to a state school ($16,000/year) versus UCLA ($34,000/year) because of the financial standing. I've wanted to go to UCLA ever since 8th grade. </p>

<p>My point wit this post is to please, look into how much schools cost before you decide to get in. Basically I think my parents never thought I would get into UCLA and thus wouldn't have to worry about it. However, it seems ironic to me that if I got into Northwestern, Columbia (where tuition is very very high) they would've sent me. Now, with UCLA, since they don't think its that great of a school... they aren't so sure.</p>

<p>Basically, for parents who use this tactic to try to guilt kids who applied to rigorous schools and got into great schools that are expensive (NYU, etc.) they are saying to their kids: you are not worth the financial investment. </p>

<p>Now, with less than 14 days to go, I am left with a decision: go to my state school and be miserable and save A LOT of money. Or go to UCLA on a gut feeling and live a dreamers life and have my parents be bitter for the rest of their lives.</p>

<p>For many state schools- a majority of the population is lazy and has not worked hard throughout high school. I know for one that I did not work as hard as I did all four years just to go to my state school where friends with 2.1s got in easily.</p>

<p>My plea for you is to evaluate EACH school you apply to as if you already got in and have to make a decision. Look at cost, location, programs. Have several plans of action. Don't be shocked that your student got in. </p>

<p>More often than not, you get what you want. But not what you need.</p>

2

<p>Isn't it true that you could qualify for residential status after a year or so of attending UCLA? If so, you could attend your dream school for considerably less than OOS tuition for four years. Also, UCLA is highly respected in many programs. If your parents would spring for Northwestern, they may change their minds and pay for UCLA if you do a full-court press to persuade them of the academic quality and value of the education. P.S. I do sympathize with your parents. Once S got into UCLA and UC-Berkeley, we began to think that the in-state tuition for either of these fine schools would please us enormously. He will most likely pick the private WashU. Go figure.</p>

3

<p>What we told our kids upfront was that we would pay a certain amount and that was it. They could apply to whatever school they wanted and we certainly looked for ones known for good financial and merit aid but when the acceptances came in, we took them with a grain of salt until the financial/merit offers were also in.</p>

<p>I am very glad my son ended up applying to quite a few colleges but with finances a big part of the puzzle, it made sense. He can decide if he wants to go to a college where he will have $35,000 in loans to pay off or one where he will have no debt. I think that's pretty reasonable.</p>

<p>I don't think we're saying that our kids are not worth a certain financial investment, we're saying that we will need to eat and pay the mortgage and retire eventually...</p>

4

<p>Good note, CareBear. Be aware that many parents, having been to college 20 or 30 years ago, are in total sticker shock. It is true that incomes of those in the top 5% of the population have actually had their incomes go up faster than the rate of tuition, but for everyone else, it has our heads spinning.</p>

<p>30 years ago, by working two near-minimum-wage jobs during the school year, and 14 hours a day, 7 days a week, in the summer, I could get close to paying for what was then the most expensive private college in the United States. Now that would be an absolute and total pipedream. </p>

<p>So, cut us a little slack - sometimes we are little slow on the uptake.</p>

5

<p>We're in the unique position where our daughter actually chose the CHEAPEST option and her parents aren't really thrilled with it. She chose CU-Boulder (Honors Program) over Georgetown and UCLA. </p>

<p>While we were (and still are) willing to make the financial sacrifices to send her to either out-of-state school, she has decided that CU is her best "fit" for her. So it's financially a good decision for us, but on the emotional side, I wish she were going elsewhere. But it's HER life, and this is one of her first adult decisions, so we're working to be happy and respectful of her decision.</p>

<p>I agree with kathiep, though. A balance needs to be struck between giving your college aged kid a good life and not sacrificing the parents' quality of life too much.</p>

<p>OP, I think your parents hit some point where they got "sticker shock" over college costs. I think that you need to sit down with them and have a talk about finances to see where they're coming from and to see if you can get across to them just how important going to UCLA is to you and what YOU would do to help cut down on the costs.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

6

<p>I totally agree that parents need to sit down with their kids and have the conversation up front regarding how much they are able/ willing to spend or borrow for a college education. </p>

<p>I think that students need to listen with both ears open. I remember one of the parents stating that when you set a price mean it, don't think that more money is going to magically appear (well if you hit the lottery or come into some giant windfall of $$, it definitely changes the picture).</p>

<p>For you the student, this does not mean i am going to apply to the 40,000 school of my dreams and when I get in they will be so happy that I achieved this great thing that they are going to make it happen.</p>

<p>It also does not mean..</p>

<p>
[quote]
I am left with a decision: go to my state school and be miserable and save A LOT of money. Or go to UCLA on a gut feeling and live a dreamers life and have my parents be bitter for the rest of their lives.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>It is not a matter that we your parents do not care or think that you are not worth the investment. But, after all has been said and done $34,000 is a lot of money and parents would be remiss not to consider money in the equation
Although there are a few parent that place no financial constraints, most families are not in the postion to do so unless;</p>

<p>They have enough money as they don't have to worry about the cost (not the majority)</p>

<p>I hate to sound harsh, but you need to wake up and maybe dream a new dream, because here are the facts:</p>

<p>Unless you are a great rusher, kicker back, can really throw long or have a 3 point shot and can sink the ball from half court every time, the likelihood of your getting any where in the ball park for this money at UCLA as an out of state student is nil. </p>

<p>As a dependent student, the amount of money you are going to be able to borrow without your parent's consent is $2625.</p>

<p>Unless your parents are willing to write the check or borrow the money on your behalf, UCLA is not going to let you step into a class room until the bill has been paid.</p>

<p>But by the same token, if you got a load of your own money stashed away ready, then none of this really matters :)</p>

<p>while UCLA sound wonderful, there are over 3000 schools in the country and more than one will make your dreams come true it you let it</p>

7

<p>jazzy: unfort. the UC system does not make it easy to qualify as an in-state resident. after doing very easy things like registering to vote and getting a CA drivers license, you must declare that you will be 100%financially independent (which makes no sense since MY loan is only $2600 and my parents would take the rest as a loan...)</p>

8

<p>To all: I don't mean to complain so much about my parents and how they aren't willing to sell the house to send me to college. I just think it is unfortunate that just because the perception of a school (i.e. UCLA) doesn't match up to Northwestern, or Columbia, that my parents are now rethinking whether or not I should go out of state. Obviously I applied to UCLA for several reasons (programs that I liked, etc.) and I think that the overall quality of the education should matter as well.</p>

<p>As sybbie719 noted, I will have to reach a consensus with my parents since they will be taking out the loan for me, paying the interest, and I will be paying the rest back. (I do not want my parents to pay 100% of the bill for whichever school I decide to go to. Whether I need to work, get outside scholarships, etc. I am willing to make as large of a contribution as possible.)</p>

<p>I think generally parents want their kids to work hard over four years and aim at these great famous institutions...that come with a hefty price tag. I know my parents were shocked when I didn't even get $1 in scholarship at UCLA... I think people assume you never pay the full sticker price. You pay anywhere from $1,000 - $10,000 less. Thats not always the case.</p>

9

<p>I agree that parents should investigate the costs of college beforehand, and speak at the beginning of the process or hold their peace. I also agree that a parent's decision regarding very expensive tuition should not be based on his/her ad hoc view of the school (i.e., UCLA v. Northwestern) unless the choice being made is bizarre. However, your dismissal of kids who go to state schools ("a majority...are lazy") is arrogant and uninformed, and your perception that there is only one "dream" school, which you "need" to go to is dangerous. If you do go to UCLA, and it doesn't work out (kind of like the 50% of "dream" marriages which end in divorce, most of which were entered into with much greater knowledge than you had in the 8th grade when you decided to go to UCLA), where do you go then?</p>

<p>In sum, based on what you posted, your parents' attitude may need some fine tuning. You might want to examine yours as well.</p>

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<p>dadtimesthree: i'm not saying that ALL kids who go to state schools are dumb and lazy. they have really bright kids who go there and do well in their life whether it be fortune 500 companies or go to very strong graduate programs. i just feel that i have not worked hard for four years to go to a school where my classmates from high school have 2.1 GPAs and will be living down the hall from me.</p>

<p>UCLA a school i've worked hard for, but for me there is no perfect school (i.e. ucla doesnt have a journalism program.) Basically, you can't ever calculate how things will work out for you. I'm not even sure UCLA is the best school for me because regardless of my happiness in southern california, I still need to do well in college and have a high GPA and while learning and exploring my different interest.</p>

<p>I'm also 18 years old and I don't have all the answers- which is why since my parents aren't up for this conversation, I thought I might give CC parents a chance to broaden my perspective.</p>

<hr>

<p>One huge question I asked my parents is : If this school was out of state, would you pay $30,000/year for me to go there? And they said no. Meaning they did not feel like the school was a quality institution. But they would let me go there for the sake of saving money. I think that is wrong.</p>

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<p>Sorry for the tone. I come from an area where kids have a real sense of entitlement, and believe that parents are there to pay for their every whim--it's one of my pet peeves, and I probably overreacted to the portion of your post which talked about your parents not believing your tuition was a good investment. We had this discussion with my daughter early on--like you, she's interested in journalism, and has considered a variety of schools (state and private) with greatly different sticker pices. We told her she could go where she wanted, and that we'd pay for her choice without guilting her about cost, but that she might want to consider cost as one among many factors, just as she would if she was paying for it herself. We've been very pleased at the way she reacted to this concept to this stage in her search.</p>

<p>One thing--yes, if you go to some state schools (note: UCLA is a state school), you'll find some high school goof-offs there. You'll also find thousands of students who don't fall into that category. If you feel uncomfortable hanging with the kids who don't extend themselves, don't do it--you'll have more than enough choices. UCLA, like other "public Ivies", will have a range of kids too--as a Michigan grad, I saw it there. Don't, however, make the mistake of believing that the only people you can learn from are those who had 3.8/1400 credentials in high school.</p>

<p>Lecture over. Good luck to you.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
One huge question I asked my parents is : If this school was out of state, would you pay $30,000/year for me to go there? And they said no. Meaning they did not feel like the school was a quality institution.

[/quote]
No, that's not necessarily what they meant at all. Economics are much more complicated than that, and unless money is no object, you can't talk about quality without also talking about value. </p>

<p>"Quality" is not either-or, nor is value. The perception of value is inextricably related to cost. At some point, if cost outweighs perceived value, quality is no longer the issue. There are plenty of people who do not believe that $45,000 a year for a HPYS-type school is worth the price tag. They are not arguing that a HPYS-type institution isn't a quality insititution. It's just that at some price point, quality is no longer the deciding factor -- if money is an issue, quality is never the only consideration. </p>

<p>The Honda Civic is an extremely well-built, reliable car. At its price point, it is a quality car. It will get you where you need to go, safely and reliably, with many of the comforts offered on more expensive luxury vehicles. At some price point, however, the perception of the quality of the Honda Civic becomes questionable. No one would consider a Honda Civic a quality car at the $100,000 price point. At that point, your expectations of "quality" change.</p>

<p>I am not suggesting that UCLA is the "Honda Civic" of higher education. I'm trying to make the point that the perceived value of goods and services is always going to be relative to their cost unless money is not an issue. At some point, the benefit of being at UCLA as an undergraduate isn't "worth" the expense -- and exactly how much that benefit is and at what point the expense is no longer "worth it" is going to be decided by each family differently, based on a number of different factors. </p>

<p>Frankly, I would not pay OOS tuition for UCLA either, but many other people feel differently. Either way, I think we all agree that UCLA is a quality insitution.</p>

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<p>Hey CareBear,
Don't be too hard on your parents. You could have written that about our family a year ago. We told our son to apply without consideration of cost, BUT that getting financial aid at expensive schools would be important. He was WAAY qualified to get into his first choice, and he did, but the money didn't follow for some reason. We really all thought he'd be attending his dream school, but it just couldn't work out that way. Parents really only want what is best for their kids, and are optimistic about getting them there. Sometimes it's just not in the cards.</p>

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<p>Here is what I did with my daughter:</p>

<p>What I told her: I told d. that she could apply to any colleges she wanted, but she was also required to apply to the UC system (in-state for us). I told her that I would pay for her to attend her choice of UC campuses no matter what. I also said that I would pay whatever the cost was for the most expensive UC, taking into consideration whatever need-based financial aid they offered us, for any other college - so if she could get merit awards or need-based aid that would reduce the cost of the private college to the same as or less than the UC (with need-based aid factored in) -- she would be able to attend. </p>

<p>What I really meant: I was willing to pay more for a private college, but I wanted control of the process -- I didn't want to pay more for a college that I felt was lesser quality than UC, and I do have financial limitations. </p>

<p>Rather than tell my daughter up front that I was going to engage in my own balancing of quality/cost, I figured it was easier to present her with the worst-case scenario (mom will pay out cost of any UC, but no more). That way, she wasn't going to end up expecting more than I was willing to deliver. </p>

<p>My daughter is now going to attend a private college at a cost to me of $5500 more for the first year than it would cost me to send her to the UC campus that gave her the least favorable financial aid award -- so basically I am throwing in $5500 more than I said I would. Her top choice college would cost $17K more... and I told her no to that. Actually I didn't have to say no -- once we had all the figures in hand, there wasn't anything left to debate. We didn't have to get into a discussion of relative merits of the colleges vs. financing, because even the cost for the least expensive private was perceived as a gift. </p>

<p>Moral: Parents should think about financing and talk to their kids before college applications are made, and parents should never promise more than they intend to deliver. </p>

<p>I don't think CareBear's parents are now doing anything different than I would do -- under the same circumstances, I would probably be telling my daughter she had to choose the in-state public over the out-of-state public. However, the difference is that CareBear expected more; my daughter didn't.</p>

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<p>I don't believe you mentioned the name of the instate university you are comparing to UCLA. I looked up some of your old posts. Your instate choice is very good and the quality of education will be comparable - if not better at least close. There is no reason for you to be disappointed and miserable. Clearly, I would agree with your parents. This decision has nothing to do with not thinking you are worth a financial burden. This has nothing to do with you working hard and not getting accepted into a "better" school than some of your lazy classmates. The facts are your instate choice is very good and UCLA is not worth going to at $30k/year. Would the decision be better if you were accepted to an Ivy or very elite school? Maybe, but even that can be a very difficult decision and many kids and parents are opting for more reasonable costs. I think you need to put the costs in perspective. You could travel and study in Europe all summer for much less than the extra costs for UCLA.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Now, with less than 14 days to go, I am left with a decision: go to my state school and be miserable and save A LOT of money. Or go to UCLA on a gut feeling and live a dreamers life and have my parents be bitter for the rest of their lives.

[/quote]

I understand that your state school is not where you had hoped to attend. I understand that you have worked very hard and probably thrive on challenges. Nevertheless, being miserable is a decision. If your parents have decided not to pay 30K per year for UCLA, then that's what they've decided. It's their money, and they have the right to spend it as they see fit. That doesn't mean they shouldn't have figured all this out a year ago, so that you wouldn't have expectations that they aren't willing to meet, but as others have said, they probably were not clear on just how much UCLA would cost, and they certainly couldn't have known that you wouldn't receive any scholarships there. So, if the decision is made, you can be miserable about it, or you can cultivate an attitude of gratefulness for the significant sacrifices your parents are making for you. </p>

<p>Something to think about is that not only are they sacrificing financially to send you to the state university, but they are also sacrificing by enduring your anger at them when they believe they are making a decision that is in your best interest. Clearly, they believe that the UCLA education is not a good value (loved the Honda Civic example!). They don't want you burdened with paying back $120K when you graduate (you said they would just pay the interest, right?). That would really limit your options as a new college graduate, and they know that. They are older and have more experiences than you. They know that 4 years of living your dream will likely not be worth 15 years of paying for that dream. They know they'll have to hear you say, "I can't take the job I'd like because it doesn't pay as much and I have my loans to pay off," or "We can't buy a house" or "We can't have a baby," all because of those student loans. What kind of parent would let that happen to their kid if they could prevent it?</p>

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<p>When kids first start talking about "dream schools", that is the time to inform them that you can't afford to pay the full amount so unless $$ can come from somewhere else, they will need to also apply elsewhere. I think many parents just smile when their kids talk about dream schools when really they should be setting the record straight before their little hearts get set on a pipe dream. </p>

<p>I have a sister in law who always "talked big" and used to tell her kids "If you get accepted to Notre Dame, then I will pay for it." Now that her 4 smart kids are nearing college age I'm sure she's freaking out at the thought of 40K+ a year for 4 kids. </p>

<p>so the moral is: Be careful what you DON"T say and be careful what you DO say.......</p>

18

<p>If I'm interpreting this thread properly, there are (at least) two separate issues being discussed here.</p>

<p>The first issue is that it makes sense for parents to discuss earlier rather than later the amount of money they are willing to contribute to their child's education - independent of the EFC calculators. If a private school's cost can't be met with need-based aid or merit scholarships or co-signed loans the kid is willing to take on, it only makes sense that the child needs to pass and accept the less-expensive option. This discussion seems to me to be pretty straightforward and can probably be applied to most situations.</p>

<p>The more difficult discussion (that calmom addresses) occurs when parents say they have the financial resources to pay for a more expensive private school, but they reserve the right to decide whether the perceived quality of the school is worth the added expense. The tension arises when the student has a different view of the quality of the school than the parents. These discussions are probably unique to each family, and I don't really have any particularly insightful suggestions. On the surface it seems to make sense to have these discussions at the beginning of the process, but it's not all that easy for parents to rank order the special pile and the non-special pile early on. Seems like parent's assessments evolve and change as much as the kid's own views as the process moves along (reading & research, visitations, etc). I appreciate calmom sharing her insights about how she dealt with this issue with her D.</p>

19

<p>I'm having a hard time understanding how parents who have encouraged their student since Day One to go to the "best" possible school can somehow be unaware of the cost of college when they have a high school sophomore or junior living under their roof?</p>

<p>There are constant news stories on both the cost of college education and the increasing difficulty of competing for an admissions slot with the large numbers of students currently applying to college. Everyone knows that compound interest is the 8th wonder of the world and that it's the money you put away early on for your kid that pays off when he or she goes to college. There must be some other aspect to this story that we're not hearing...</p>

<p>Are you really saying your parents waited until the acceptances rolled in to say "Ooops, looks like we can't afford it!"?????</p>

20

<p>I'm wondering if perhaps it wasn't actually the cost that the parents were unaware of so much as what the "best" school actually looks like when you look closely.</p>