<p>I am hoping to hear from students who are studying science (esp chem/physics) or Math at Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Columbia or Penn. How do you perceive the rigor of your actual program? I've heard rumors the Ivies are not strong in Sciences and we are trying to decide if D should consider any ivies as a result. D would like a more "well rounded" student body than a Cal Tech or MIT might offer.
(Actually we know Cornell is strong in Science but too cold and remote to make the list; Dartmouth also out as too remote, Brown also out too unstructured).</p>
<p>Columbia, Cornell, and Yale seem the best science-wise to me.</p>
<p>MIT has a very well-rounded student body. Some of the most artsy people I know went to MIT. They don't take many people with an extreme aptitude in just math/science.</p>
<p>MIT is not in the ivy league athletic conference haha</p>
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MIT is not in the ivy league athletic conference haha
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<p>The OP made this comment</p>
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D would like a more "well rounded" student body than a Cal Tech or MIT might offer.
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<p>if you would like a more well rounded student body and a very good science program, look at Rice and Harvey Mudd</p>
<p>I preferred the Ivies for science and engineering for the same reason as the OP: a more well-rounded student body and curriculum.</p>
<p>for physics, rank order
Harvard
Cornell
Princeton
Columbia
Yale
Penn</p>
<p>for chem, rank order
Harvard
Columbia
Cornell
Princeton
Yale</p>
<p>for math, rank order
Princeton
Harvard
Yale
Columbia
Brown
Cornell
Penn</p>
<p>Oh c'mon a well-rounded student body isn't the only reason you're exclusively looking into the ivies, even when your daughter plans on studying the physical sciences.</p>
<p>If you were genuinely interested in your daughter getting the best education in the physical sciences, there are schools that offer much more solid programs in chemistry and physics than the Ivies. You are, first of all, ruling out MIT and Caltech for absolutely outlandish reasons as both schools have students that are just as "well-rounded," if not more in my opinion, and if you were looking for the top programs in physics, you'd be looking at schools like the University of Chicago before the Ivies, and for the best in chemistry, schools like Northwestern and Berkeley.</p>
<p>Let's not kid ourselves by saying you'd rather see the Ivies ranked in order because their student bodies are more well-rounded than the kids at MIT, Caltech, U of C, Northwestern and Berkeley.</p>
<p>Earth Science:
Columbia
Cornell
Yale
Harvard
Princeton</p>
<p>for bio, rank order</p>
<p>Yale
Harvard
Columbia
Cornell
Penn
Princeton</p>
<p>astronomy</p>
<p>Harvard
Cornell
Yale
Penn</p>
<p>You can;t rank Ivy sciences outside of engineering, its absolutely ridiculous.</p>
<p>why can you even rank ivy engineering programs? haha</p>
<p>slipper,
I confess that I favored the larger schools with bigger research programs. I am sure Dartmouth provides a great education in the sciences.</p>
<p>engineering</p>
<p>Cornell
Princeton
Columbia
Penn</p>
<p>Ooh, collegehelp, as a biologist myself, I'd definitely consider Harvard's bio program stronger than Yale's. What's your rationale? (Not trying to be confrontational. :) Just curious.)</p>
<p>I agree with pierre0913 on Harvey Mudd a lot for having a well-rounded student body. For one, even though all of its majors are in the sciences, engineering, and math, one third of the curriculum is devoted to the humanities. It has some of the highest rates for graduates earning doctorates in the nation. Another factor is that it is literally right by 4 other Colleges, which are Pomona, Scripps, McKenna, and Pitzer, which are not science based. Classes can be taken in the other four Colleges as well. It's also about forty minutes from L.A., so it's neither remote nor cold.</p>
<p>How many art students read science textbooks in their free time? How many science/engineering students create art or play music in their free time? You might want to look again at what the typical "well-rounded" student actually studies.</p>
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You are, first of all, ruling out MIT and Caltech for absolutely outlandish reasons as both schools have students that are just as "well-rounded," if not more in my opinion
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<p>Caltech has a 'well-rounded' student body? Really? My brother went to Caltech, and enjoyed it, yet even he wouldn't claim that the student body is truly 'well-rounded'. </p>
<p>Let's face it. Caltech is a specialty niche school. There's nothing wrong with that, but that is what it is. </p>
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and if you were looking for the top programs in physics, you'd be looking at schools like the University of Chicago before the Ivies, and for the best in chemistry, schools like Northwestern and Berkeley.
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<p>According to USNews (graduate edition), Chicago is ranked below Harvard, Princeton, and Cornell in Physics. </p>
<p>According to USNews, Northwestern is ranked #9 in chemistry, below Harvard and tied with Cornell.</p>
<p>Ok, 1down, you are managing to offend everyone here by your stereotypes (lol!) My daughter's friend, who got a snazzy fellowship to UCB for a PhD in theoretical physics didn't find the 'unstructured' program at Brown too detrimental. My own started in physics, but is getting a Math & Computer Science degree and is applying for top PhD programs this year. Brown has a great reputation in CS and in Applied Math.</p>
<p>Math/Science types love the open curriculum at Brown (as do most students there.) It does demand that you be an active and aware participant in your program, but you pick your own path, which allows for a lot of creative interdisciplinary work, or allows for just a hell of a lot of science and math classes, in my daughter's case. She's also taken Mandarin and Russian. And she is a mathy type that does do art and music in her spare time. </p>
<p>But the requirements in the major are just like any other university/college, and if you have a hardcore major, you might be starting some of the prereq's right away or at least sophmore year.</p>
<p>So, I hate to see Brown dissed for a petty thing, or really, for a thing that is a benefit to most students. But my daughter, who was super well rounded in HS, not lopsided at all, has once said she regretted that she didn't consider tech schools. But it seems more the idea that she feels now she would have been just as successful and just as much of 'a contender' as she feels now.</p>
<p>She has HS friends at Mudd and Olin.</p>
<p>Hmmm, the original question was should any of the Ivies be ruled IN? D is considering most of the schools mentioned. Living in the Northeast we are geographically much closer to the Ivies. </p>
<p>And am not dissing "open curriculum" -- just my D prefers some structure. I thought this whole process was supposed to be about what feels right for the individual. </p>
<p>Also not dismissing MIT or Caltech -- D fears if she changes mind re science major she would have to transfer if begin at MIT/Caltech -- part of her definition of possibly "too narrow" for her needs. We know many MIT students so have first hand experience with this truly fabulous school. She is trying to figure out where she would "fit"best.</p>
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And am not dissing "open curriculum" -- just my D prefers some structure. I thought this whole process was supposed to be about what feels right for the individual.
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<p>Does your daughter really dislike the idea of designing her own education? Personally, I think that's a beautiful thing that requires an immense amount of responsibility. Or is it that you, as the parent, want her to have structure?</p>