<p>So I got into my #1 school, but I'm not super delighted with my finaid package. We're a middle-class, single parent family (I'd estimate my mom's taxable yearly income at about 80K). The amount of aid we got makes this university a possibility, but my mom and I weren't exactly jumping up and down. So out of curiosity, what would be a reasonable amount of debt to go into for an ivy education? 20K? 50? Thankfully it won't be more than that for sure. Just want some objective parental insight, thanks (my mom is too happy for me, and I know she might assume a serious financial burden to let me live out my dream).</p>
<p>I thought most of the Ivies dropped packaging loans in financial aid awards. But, anyway, if you graduate with only 20K in loans, is there anywhere else you could go and do better? I mean, if you look at an in-state university, they overall price tag would be lower, but they would not meet your need as well. You may end up in even more debt.</p>
<p>Or do you have another private college that has offered you merit aid so that the FA award overall is better than at the Ivy you're referring to?</p>
<p>As a general answer to your question, though, I think it would depend a good deal on your major and your future plans. If you're planning to be an elementary school teacher, for example, then NO it's not worth it.</p>
<p>While most of the Ivies have dropped student loans, perhaps the OP may need to borrow to pay the EFC, which means s/he will graduate with debt.</p>
<p>I see from your posts that you got into Yale. Congrats. With their revamped FA program and your parent making 80k, I think attending Yale is going to cost less than attendng your local state U (unless you get a full ride)</p>
<p>According to their website:</p>
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families earning $60,000 to $120,000 will typically contribute from 1% to 10% of total family income. The contribution of aided families earning above $120,000 will average 10% of income.</p>
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<p>Looking at their new policy, if your mom makes 90k the cost would be $2,950. This cost is probably less than most community colleges (it is certainly less than attending Ny community colleges).</p>
<p>Remember they will also ask for a contribution from your non-custodial parent.</p>
<p>You and your mom will work it out, but over all it seems like a good deal.</p>
<p>Allow me to reprint a reply to another thread. Our S's Ivy undergrad costed us out of pocket over $125K even with finaid and grants. Is it worth it ? Overall I think the imprint of an undergrad education at Ivy school generally helps one further his/her career goal and life potentials. Is it always ? Be your own judge. The following post is a reply to someone who tendered a different opinion. I take for granted that this person actually did graduate from an Ivy school. </p>
<p>RE: I attended another Ivy and I can't say it actually opened any doors.</p>
<p>I don't know your particular circumstance but through my S's experience, he got well-paid internship with the same major engineering co. 2 years in a row which only recruits at specific schools, had taken courses from top well-known professors who were active in industry, made connections he otherwise wouldn't have made, and got into a grad program with full ride. His friends all but one got good jobs with well-known companies even in this difficult time. The only one who didn't get hired right away was his choosing, not sure if he wanted more school or joins the work force, and was in a general major instead of pre-professional. I am sure my S's work ethics had a lot to do with it, but the environment and resources and networking that are available were there to support him. So I begged to differ and present my view on whether Ivy school really makes a difference.</p>
<p>Galestorm -- wait until April to make any decisions. We have had posters in the past who have chosen reputable colleges offering strong merit aid over Ivies, primarily for financial reasons, and been very happy over time with their choices. One was EvilRobot who went to Vandy instead - he's been back from time to time to report. I think he is now graduated with a dream job at a Silicon Valley firm, so he was very happy with the choice he made even though it was painful at the time. Another is Curmudgeon's daughter, who opted for a full ride to Rhodes and since that time was awarded a Goldwater scholarship -- also quite happy with her choice, though I think her father was the one who had a harder time letting go of the Ivy dream.</p>
<p>That doesn't mean you can't do well at Yale -- its just that you should wait until you have all options before you to make the decision. Its useful to make a spreadsheet to compare costs & benefits, including elements that are important to you and factoring in prestige -- but prestige value does not necessarily equate with a huge loan debt. But once you have the financial aid info in from your other schools, you will be able to make a valid comparison. For example, you might decide that Yale is worth an extra $5K every year than another of your options, but not worth an extra $10K a year. On the other hand, it might turn out that the Yale package is one of the most generous you receive, so you might discover that you are paying less to attend Yale than to go to another school on your list, especially when you factor in debt.</p>
<p>Also think about yourself and your own goals: are you truly going to take advantage of all Yale has to offer? There are students who go off to top schools and slack off, figuring that they are in college to have fun, and happy to get B's & C's. They get their degree, but probably not their parent's money's worth. I know that all high school seniors hope to do well in college ... but this is a time to be brutally honest with yourself and consider that you are asking your mom to make a huge financial investment in you. In a sense, the more money you expect your parents to put in, the more you "owe" them back in terms of your college performance. I think that part of the reason my son dropped out of college after 2 years was his own feelings of guilt over his poor grades. (It didn't come from me, primarily because my son obviously felt too ashamed to even tell me how bad his grades were -- I didn't find out until much later. He was not on probation at his school so he could have stayed, but I think he knew that it was wrong to expect me to take on debt for him to continue).</p>
<p>The answer is unique to the individual, for some it is worth it, for others it is not. The trick is to determine if it is worth it for you. If you are worried about it, then it is likely not the right trade-off.</p>
<p>This question is asked a lot. A you will get a LOT of different opinions. My opinion is simple. You should go to the best college you can for the major you want to have a career in and that you can afford. There's a LOT of people; even on this board; who do not understand that Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Columbia, Stanford, etc... is NOT THE BEST COLLEGE FOR EVERYTHING!!! If you are into the studies that the colleges I listed are the best at or known highly for; law, medicine, polysci, or whatever; then if you can afford that college then you should go for it. The debt you incur is dependent on how much you can make to pay it back. If you want to study marine biology; you are wasting your money to go to one of the schools I mentioned. You should be looking at schools that that is their specialty. If you don't know what you want to be, and all you want to do is get an undergraduate degree, liberal arts, fine arts,history, etc... and figure out the rest later; then going to the schools I listed; in my opinion; is a big waste of your money. You'd be better off going to a school that is good quality and must less expensive. Then save your money for going to the best grad school in the area you eventually choose that you can afford. But there are going to be those that disagree and believe that the name, the Ivy type status, the "experience" of these schools is more important than the degree. We'll agree to disagree. By the way; if you're really into agriculture, forestry, animal husbandry, etc... I don't think I saw that on Harvard's list of majors. But it could be there. </p>
<p>Basically; look at your long range educational goals. Getting a liberal arts degree from Princeton with a $50-$100K debt when you graduate can not be justified if you aren't going to be able to pay off the loan for 10 years. I personally put college debt into the same category as a car loan. Basically 5 years. And average car is $20-$30K new. Average car loan is for 5 years. If you can go to school, wherever, and walk out with $30K or less in student debt and plan on paying it back in 5 years, I'd go for it. If not, it's probably not worth it unless you already know what you want to major in and the expensive schools are the best in that area.</p>
<p>I don't know that you want to compare an education with something that's depreciable and bound to be obsolete like a car. I will not look at a life-time of memories, being among some of the most amazing kids, the connections you will make and the resources you are available to, and the wonderful world-renown professors who bring leading edge technology and perspectives as someone had mentioned, and paste it onto an entity like that of a car loan ?</p>
<p>Well, the reality is that if you have a student loan/debt; you have to pay it back. We can get philosophical; but that doesn't take away the fact that we are talking about money. People talk about safety; especially with the hurricane in New Orleans. People started to say things like; what's a human life worth? Well, as cold as it may sound, there is a price tag for ALL THINGS. There is no doubt; it has been proven; that a car can be built that would GUARANTEE that there would be absolutely no chance of a person dying in a car accident. But; would the average person buy a $150,000 car?</p>
<p>You don't have to use a car as a comparison to how much you have to pay back for a college education, but those "MEMORIES"; "GREAT KIDS"; and all those other things you mentions; are they worth the PRICE TAG and the subsequent debt??? That is the question. If the degree you go to that school for is one that yields a career that pays you on average over a 10 year period $35,000 a year; and you owe $80,000 in debt; (Average $50,000 a year Ivy league with 60% in grants, scholarships, private, etc... leaving $20,000 a year for 4 years); How long would it take to pay back the $80,000????? Is that worth it. Philosophically speaking, you could rationalize it. But at the end of the day, unless that great experience or fantastic person that you met is going to help pay the debt, it isn't worth that.</p>
<p>Now; if the career that you went to that school for yielded you a $100,000+ job; then you can easily extrapolate that paying off $80,000 in debt can be done in a reasonable amount of time. The purpose of saying a CAR LOAN; was because I believe that if it is going to take MORE THAN 5 YEARS to pay back your student loan/debt; then that is TOO MUCH. A car is normally paid off in 4-5 years. Now; if you get a 6 figure job after college; then an $80,000 Mercedes Car/Student loan is not a problem. If you are majoring in a degree that is going to get you a $35,000 a year job, then maybe you should be looking at a $30,000 Ford Car/student loan. But hay; if those memories are worth $80,000, and they keep you warm at night while you're living on PB&J for the next 10 years, then have at it. My point was simply, whether or not it's WORTH THAT MUCH DEBT; is relative to how much you can parlay that education. Some people have the money, so such an education isn't an issue. Some people don't. If I wanted to get into political science, work for an international company, eventually get into politics, etc... Then I think the harvard education would be worth it. It would conceivably pay itself back. If I wanted to be an Art History major; and I was going to be working for a museum; and making a humble living; then I don't think that it would be worth it.</p>
<p>Also; unless my major was something the expensive college was known to be the best at, then there's definitely no sense of going there. I.e. A marine biologist would probably want to go to school at Miami. Not Yale.</p>
<p>Guys, the "ivies" don't start and end with Harvard, Yale and Princeton. Other Ivies aren't nearly so generous. Not all Ivies have eliminated loans.</p>
<p>To tag on to afadad's comments: In GENERAL a student debt of roughly one year's salary upon graduation is reasonable. So if you expect to earn $50K per year then you could safely take on that much debt. If you are a liberal arts grad then your expected first year salary is going to be much less and so you should not take on more than that amount. Note that this rule of thumb does not take into account grad school--a history major with $25K in debt who plans to go to law school and take on EVEN MORE debt may well be overreaching. </p>
<p>This rule may sound too conservative, but back in the stone ages I came out of school with a business degree and $7,000 in debt--my very first job paid me $10,000 per year and I lived LEAN in order to pay off my student loans--no car, roommates, etc. I was not debt free until I was 30, and it did hamper my lifestyle early on. </p>
<p>My degree has paid fabulous dividends since then and I would borrow again--in fact maybe up to that mythical first year salary ceiling---but paying that off made a huge dent in my standard of living in the first five years or so after college, and my debt to first income ratio was extremely conservative compared to what young people are taking on now.</p>
<p>Reasonable debt is none. D never applied to any Ivy or elite school for cost consideration. Our solution was in-state. We have much higher income, she graduted #1 from her HS. </p>
<p>This is very personal quesion. You cannot listen to outsiders, it needs to be decided within family. There are many variables that are very different in each case.</p>
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Guys, the "ivies" don't start and end with Harvard, Yale and Princeton. Other Ivies aren't nearly so generous. Not all Ivies have eliminated loans.
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<p>Sounds as if you have not done your due diligence regarding the FA policies at the Ivies. Maybe every single Ivy may not have a no-loan component that is beneficial to you and your situation, but they all have a no -loan policy in place.</p>
<p>You already know that HYP has eliminated loans but every single one of the Ivies has a eliminated loans if you meet their income guidelines. Even at schools like Brown and Cornell, which have not totally eliminated loans from their packages, those loans to the students have been greatly reduced</p>
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<p>•*Columbia will eliminate loans for all students receiving financial aid, whatever their family income, and replace them with University grants. *</p>
<p>Columbia</a> University Office of Undergraduate Financial Aid and Educational Financing</p>
<p>As part of that commitment, students who qualified for need-based aid will no longer have loans included as part of their financial aid package beginning in Fall 2009. This policy will extend to all families who qualify for need-based aid. As a result, students from these families will be able to graduate debt-free.</p>
<p>Penn</a> Admissions: Paying for a Penn Education</p>
<p>The College will eliminate loans for incoming scholarship recipients beginning with next year's Class of 2012. Over the course of four years of enrollment, students will see loans that totaled as much as $17,500 replaced with scholarships. Currently enrolled students will see their loan expectation cut by 50 percent beginning next fall for each of their remaining years at the College. The elimination of loans will significantly reduce the debt burden of Dartmouth graduates.</p>
<p>Dartmouth</a> News - Dartmouth announces new financial aid initiative - 01/22/08</p>
<p>•Undergraduate financial aid applicants with total parent incomes less than $100,000, at the time of admission, do not have a loan component in their awards. Students with family earnings above $100,000 have moderate loans ($3,000, $4,000 or $5,000) depending on family total income level. </p>
<p>•Families with total parent earnings less than $60,000 and assets less than $100,000 are not required to make a contribution toward the cost of education. </p>
<p>•Families with total parent earnings less than $60,000 and assets greater than $100,000 have a significantly reduced contribution ( from assets only) </p>
<p>•Students are able to use outside scholarships to eliminate all of the student-effort components in their awards including the summer savings expectation. </p>
<p>Cornell recently announced a new financial aid initiative to reduce or eliminate need-based loans for eligible undergraduate students.** In the 2009-10 academic year, the program will eliminate need-based loans for students from families with total incomes below $75,000, and cap annual loans at $3,000 for students from families with total incomes between $75,000 and $120,000.** CornellÂ’s financial aid program will make it possible for students from diverse economic backgrounds to attend Cornell.</p>
<p>[url=<a href="http://finaid.cornell.edu/welcome.cfm%5DWelcome%5B/url">http://finaid.cornell.edu/welcome.cfm]Welcome[/url</a>]
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<p>It really depends on the individual situation. So many variable to examine. Your other choices also are pertinant, and you should write down each of your choices and their costs along with pros and cons. At least you can see it right in front of you. </p>
<p>For example, my dear friend was in the middle of a huge family turmoil with financials truly up in the air at the time her oldest was going through the college process. Things changed from day to day and there was no certainty as to what was going to be available for college. Her D's first choice was a private school that would have cost a lot with no merit or financial aid. Another choice was a good state school with an excellent rep in her field of study, the possibility of commuting, and a nice merit award. The flexibility offered at this stressful time made it the better choice. Two years later, she had an opportunity to transfer to her first choice school, but decided not to do so as she was happy where she was. The financial situation had stabilized at that point. She went to law school, paid for by her parents instead.</p>
<p>As cpt points out, you need to look at the debt you'll accrue for your entire educational career. If you will be planning on going to law school, taking on $50K of debt undergrad may not seem such a good idea since you'll most likely have to take on debt for law school. </p>
<p>If your plans include an employer funded MBA or a grant funded PhD, then $50K of undergrad debt won't put you in such a deep hole.</p>
<p>Debt, especially large educational debt, constricts choices in your life going forward. It's a personal decision how much debt is too much to pay for an Ivy education. Obviously, $100K debt is too much. $20K doesn't seem so bad. $50K is borderline in my book.</p>
<p>Are you really talking about exactly one of the eight colleges in the Ivy League </p>
<p>Ivy</a> League - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia </p>
<p>or are you talking about some other college?</p>
<p>it definitely has the potential to be worth the money spent. my older brother graduated from an ivy and payed back the $200,000 that it cost our family, in exactly 1 year after graduation... meaning his entry-level salary + money made in internships as a junior & senior > 200,000. certainly this is not the case for everyone but if u are able to make the best of ur four+ years at an ivy league school you can definitely make the investment worthwhile.</p>
<p>Yes, it is an actual Ivy. It's Yale, if that matters. I understand this is a personal question and that there are so many variables that these matters should be cosidered on a case by case basis, but it never hurts to hear multiple perspectives. Here's a little bit more on my personal plans (these are subject to change, of course) - I plan to double major is English and Econ. I hope to work on Wall Street (probably in finance) for a number of years after I graduate. I may get my MBA after having worked for say, five years. If by this point finance has not broken my spirit (I think I might actually really love it), I shall continue my career (I've spoken with people in high ranking positions at investment banks and this seems to be fairly typical). However, if finance is in fact spirit-crushing, after having worked in a lucrative field for essentially as long as it takes to put me in a financially comfortable situation, I would either persue a PHD in English and work toward professorship or become a secondary school teacher. I realize this plan may sound ridiculous, but hey, why not? </p>
<p>Oh, and if you are wondering how a degree in Econ translates to a job in business/finance, I have been assured that employers like Goldman, Lehman, etc. are interested in people who can think and routinely hire grads from top schools regardless of major.</p>
<p>Lehman probably isn't hiring.... but anyways, once April rolls around, have a serious heart to heart w/Yale's FA office and let them know your constraints (i.e. competing offers). See what some leverage can do for you. If they admitted you, they want you there.</p>
<p>Two thoughts on this one:</p>
<p>My daughter is "just a freshman" at Yale. She could have gone to a number of other schools at no or little cost. Is it worth it for us to pay for this particular education?</p>
<p>So far, yes. </p>
<p>The part you can't measure in dollars is her immediate immersion in a community of engaged, bright, enthusiastic students and teachers. I know this sounds like a caption in the viewbook, but I've met some of her friends and room mates, and it's true. She's heard more "top of their field" speakers in her first semester than she would have heard in four years at many other schools. These years will shape her for the rest of her life, and to us, it is worth it find the best place for someone like her to learn and to meet lifelong friends with similar drive, curiosity and ability. </p>
<p>Now for the money part. She's just started applying for summer internships using the network of Yale alumni. The feedback she's already gotten is that, yes, times are tight, but the Yale credential will put her application at the top of the heap, and not just among that particular network, but at the other places she is applying. A paying job, and the opportunity to work at a top organization, in the field she hopes to eventually work full time are harder to come by now than ever.</p>
<p>Good luck with your decision. I'm not sure I can say how much debt is too much. There are some big intangibles to weigh here.</p>