JHU vs. the ivies

College Search & Selection
21

<p>

This is not totally true. Here are the average SAT scores for admitted students this year:</p>

<p>Dartmouth: 2214</p>

<p>UPenn: 2175</p>

<p>JHU: 2200</p>

<p>Due to low yield, JHU enrolled students stats are a litte bit lower. This, as I mentioned before, probably can be corrected if JHU increases UG admission budget and financial aid,and do a better job of recruiting.</p>

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<p>Please tell us your sources. I doubt this.</p>

23

<p>

Here you are:
[TheDartmouth.com</a> | Admissions rate hits record low](<a href=“http://thedartmouth.com/2010/04/02/news/admissions]TheDartmouth.com”>http://thedartmouth.com/2010/04/02/news/admissions)

[Johns</a> Hopkins University - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johns_Hopkins_University]Johns”>Johns Hopkins University - Wikipedia)

[2014</a> admits much like last year?s | The Daily Pennsylvanian](<a href=“http://thedp.com/article/2014-admits-much-last-year-s]2014”>http://thedp.com/article/2014-admits-much-last-year-s)

</p>

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<p>^ Professor101, you’re confusing average (in the cases of Dartmouth and Penn) with median (JHU). They are not the same thing. Also, these numbers appear to be for ADMITTED applicants, and not ENROLLED students. For these purposes, the best comparison would be of the middle-50% SAT ranges for ENROLLED freshmen, which can be found on collegeboard.com:</p>

<p>[College</a> Search - Dartmouth College - SAT®, AP®, CLEP®](<a href=“College Search - BigFuture | College Board”>College Search - BigFuture | College Board)</p>

<p>[College</a> Search - Johns Hopkins University - Hopkins - SAT®, AP®, CLEP®](<a href=“College Search - BigFuture | College Board”>College Search - BigFuture | College Board)</p>

<p>[College</a> Search - University of Pennsylvania - Penn - SAT®, AP®, CLEP®](<a href=“College Search - BigFuture | College Board”>College Search - BigFuture | College Board)</p>

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<p>Hopkins has a lot going for it. In addition to its world-famous hospital system and top-ranked biomedical engineering, it has highly regarded departments across many other fields (including Art History, English/Writing, and International Relations.) The campus is gorgeous. DC is an hour away. It spends more money on research than any other school in the country; it attracts boatloads of federal grant money for physics and IT research; its bulletin boards overflow with notices for paid internships.</p>

<p>However, if you are looking for someplace where you can just ride your school’s prestige and “network” connections to fame and fortune, don’t pick JHU. It is too academically demanding.</p>

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<p>

First, Please read my post 21.</p>

<p>Second, I appologize for mixing the average and median. This, however, will not weaken my argument since you would expect the admissions put their best numbers out whether it is average or median. In addition, both average and meidan measure the central tendency and if the data follows the normal distribution, the two should be pretty close.</p>

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<p>Professor101 MEDIAN scores are always about 50-60 points lower than MEAN scores. Think about it! </p>

<p>Hopkins PR pumps out MEDIAN scores for ADMITTED applicants while Dartmouth and Penn publish MEAN scores for ENROLLED applicants. Are you kidding me. NOT THE SAME. Dartmouth is probably 60 points higher, Penn 40 points. While it seems small, when you take a whole class into account that’s huge difference. The difference between Dartmouth and Princeton or Stanford is about 10-20 points to put it in perspective.</p>

<p>Hopkins is not nearly as selective as either.</p>

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<p>Actually Slipper, 60 points is negligible. 100 points is negligible. I see no difference between a 1350 and a 1450. </p>

<p>Not that it matters since Dartmouth’s average SAT score is not 60 points higher than JHU’s. According to the 2010 USNWR, the mid 50% SAT at Dartmouth is 1330-1550, at Penn is 1330-1520 and at JHU is 1290-1510. If my math is correct, we are talking about a 40 point difference between Dartmouth and JHU and 25 points difference between Penn and JHU. No matter how you slice it slipper, those are all IDENTICAL scores. Unless I am missing something, I am confused how you can say that JHU is “not nearly” as selective as Penn or Darthmouth based on what amounts to 1 more incorrect answer on the math section. That would be like saying that Dartmouth is not nearly as selective as MIT or that Harvard is not nearly as selective as Caltech.</p>

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<p>Then is Dartmouth not less selective than Princeton? A couple questions on the SAT for one person is negligible. Across an entire student population its incredibly significant. Fundamental statistics.</p>

<p>And 100 points is a HUGE difference. A 1300 and a 1400 aren’t that different? Are you kidding? Its huge for just one person let alone an entire student body.</p>

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<p>[College</a> Search - Harvard College - SAT®, AP®, CLEP®](<a href=“College Search - BigFuture | College Board”>College Search - BigFuture | College Board)
[College</a> Search - Dartmouth College - SAT®, AP®, CLEP®](<a href=“College Search - BigFuture | College Board”>College Search - BigFuture | College Board)
[College</a> Search - Johns Hopkins University - Hopkins - SAT®, AP®, CLEP®](<a href=“College Search - BigFuture | College Board”>College Search - BigFuture | College Board)</p>

<p>adding up all the scores Dartmouth is 70 points behind Harvard, while JHU is 160 points behind Dartmouth. JHU’s acceptance rate is also 27% (order of magnitude different from Dartmouth). Finally:</p>

<p>[College</a> Search - Johns Hopkins University - Hopkins - At a Glance](<a href=“College Search - BigFuture | College Board”>College Search - BigFuture | College Board)
[College</a> Search - Dartmouth College - At a Glance](<a href=“College Search - BigFuture | College Board”>College Search - BigFuture | College Board)</p>

<p>91% in the top 10% for Dartmouth, vs. 80% in the top 10% for JHU: I think you can make a pretty robust argument for why Dartmouth is more competitive to get into and is taking in more qualified students. Finally JHU’s yield is significantly lower and their graduation rate is surprisingly low.</p>

<p>It’s easier to argue that Dartmouth and Harvard get exactly the same quality of students than it is to argue that JHU and Dartmouth get the same quality of students.</p>

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<p>slipper, Dartmouth is indeed not less selective than Princeton. Do you think selectivity is the fundamental difference between Dartmouth and Princeton? It isn’t. I have seen many students get into MIT, Princeton and Stanford only to be rejected by Cornell, Northwestern and Penn. Many. Trust me, it is my business to know. The difference between Dartmouth and Princeton is two-fold:</p>

<p>1) Princeton’s faculty destroys Dartmouth’s. It isn’t even close. </p>

<p>2) Princeton’s endowment stands at $13 billion, compared to Dartmouth’s $3 billion.</p>

<p>Selectivity has nothing to do with institutional quality slipper.</p>

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<p>confidentialcollege, the data in your links are way off the mark. Check the schools’ CDSs. </p>

<p><a href=“Registrar - Homewood Schools (KSAS & WSE) | Office of the Registrar | Johns Hopkins University”>Registrar - Homewood Schools (KSAS & WSE) | Office of the Registrar | Johns Hopkins University;

<p><a href=“This Page Has Moved”>This Page Has Moved;

<p>Like I said, there is a 40 point difference (out of 1600) between Dartmouth and JHU. I have no idea how those links you provided came up with a 160 point difference. And I stand by my statement above, 40 points is completely negligible.</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>In your attempt to show that JHU is just as good as the non-hyp ivies, you used two criteria. I showed you that one criteria is meaningless b/c all the schools got the same five star rating, along with hyp-which, according to you, are vastly superior. </p>

<p>You also used the PA scores, which don’t vary much between all of these schools. Is a 4.8 PA score significantly higher than a 4.7? or is 4.6 significantly higher than a 4.4? You, yourself, said these are insignificant differences so why are the scores hyp receive legitimate ‘for making them superior’ but when comparing the other schools, these differences are trivial?</p>

<p>also</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>What is your source for this? Was there a ‘Faculty Smackdown 2010’ I missed on pay per view? haha</p>

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<p>“2) Princeton’s endowment stands at $13 billion, compared to Dartmouth’s $3 billion.”</p>

<p>Yes I will acknowledge this. But acknowledge this:</p>

<p>[University</a> Endowment per Student](<a href=“Pixeum:The Digital Gallery”>Pixeum:The Digital Gallery)</p>

<p>Dartmouth’s per student endowment is 3 times that of JHU, Cal, Cornell and almost MIT level. Your efforts to put HYP in one category and then dump every other school together from Darmouth/Penn/Columbia to schools ranked closer to 20 or 25 don’t work. The gaps in Selectivity, Endowment per student (one of your most important criteria) etc are as big if not bigger between a Dartmouth and JHU as they are between Princeton and Dartmouth.</p>

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<p>Trollnyc, I never said there was a significant difference between 4.8 and 4.7 or between 4.6 and 4.5. I definitely think there is a significant difference betweem 4.6 and 4.0 or between 4.9 and 4.3. But I always maintained that a 0.2 or 0.3 difference on the PA score is negligible. </p>

<p>As for my comment about the difference in faculty quality between Dartmouth and Princeton, have you seen a single department at Dartmouth that is ranked anywhere near a department at Princeton. Every single department at Princeton is ranked among the top 15 in the nation. Many are ranked among the top 5. Only a handful of universities have faculties of that quality.</p>

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<p>The “huge gaps” in selectivity between Dartmouth and Hopkins, or between any top universities for that matter, are minuscule in comparison to the entire US education system.</p>

<p>Yes, HYPSM are the elite among the elite in terms of prestige, but a degree from Penn, Brown, Hopkins, Northwestern, Georgetown or Emory isn’t all that different. They are all peer universities.</p>

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<p>Slipper, you cannot include state schools in your endowment comparison unless you normalize for statefunding. Cal and Michigan receive over $300,000,000 in state funding annually. Dartmouth does not receive any such amount. You basically have to double a public university’s endowment if you want to fairly compare it to a private university.</p>

<p>And Cornell’s endowment per student is not three times smaller than Dartmouth’s, it is twice smaller. However, do remember that if you include only endowed colleges (Arts and Sciences, Engineering, Hotel and Architecture), its endowment per student is roughly equal to Dartmouth’s.</p>

<p>JHU indeed has a relatively small endowment per capita.</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>Alexandre: If you actually read my post, I was adding up the 25th and 75th percentile scores for all sections and showing that Dartmouth is significantly closer to Harvard than JHU is to Dartmouth. Your argument that HYPSM is in a league of it’s own, and then all the others in the top 25 are on equal footing is unfounded. There is definitely a continuous spectrum. There is a slight difference in selectivity between Harvard and Dartmouth and a difference in selectivity between Dartmouth and JHU.</p>

<p>Selectivity is one of the more appropriate ways to compare Dartmouth (which is essentially a liberal arts college) with JHU (a research university) because while their faculties focus on different things, they fight for some of the same high school students and those students then fight for the same med schools, law schools, internships etc.</p>

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<p>'… Cornell’s endowment per student…"</p>

<p>Is only part of the picture there, considering that it receives substantial appropriations from the State of New York. If someone were to annuitize the dollar amount of these annual appropriations it would probably represent a pretty significant chunk of money that was functionally equivalent to additional endowment. For one thing, a major use of endowment funds generally is to provide financial aid. One-fifth of Cornell’s students who are New York state residents attending the contract colleges receive reduced tuition, and this substantial subsidy does not come out of its endowment.</p>

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<p>

Slipper, you make me chuckle. If what you said is true, then the average SAT of JHU admitted students should be 50-60 points higher than Dartmouth and UPenn’s and the numbers would look like this:
Dartmouth: 2214
JHU: 2250
UPenn: 2178</p>

<p>

Hopkins admissions people are some of the most honest that I observed among all the top colleges. Their admission process is among the most transparent. The numbers I quoted for Dartmouth and UPenn are for admitted students released by their admissions.</p>

<p>I repeat what I said before, the admitted students at Hopkins are no appreicable differerence in quality from those admitted by Dartmouth and UPenn. However,

</p>