<p>Despite NDs extremely high rankings, I have not met enough people that go there to get a grasp for their admissions policy.</p>
<p>My friend (truly is my friend) has the following stats:
33 ACT
3/175 4.0 UW
Typical ECs (varsity fball, varsity track, student council, and a job)
Christian School, not catholic though.</p>
<p>Is he pretty much guaranteed in or is ND more competitive than I think?</p>
<p>No one is guaranteed in.</p>
<p>That sounds about like the average person (seriously, everyone was an athlete in high school, that's why our intramural teams get sponsors and occasional ESPN coverage). Those are great grades and the ACT is competitive, although I think ACT scores at ND seem to be inflated as compared to other stats. Your friend definately gets a good look, and with a likeable essay I think he would be accepted early action.</p>
<p>Meh average</p>
<p>i had a better resume than that and ND was a reach for me.</p>
<p>Wait, bpayne. Since when did intramural teams get sponsors?</p>
<p>I think that there are several stages of "competitiveness" for students applying to ND.</p>
<p>URMs- it is no secret that they receive substantial help in the admissions process. All you have to do is looks at the acceptance thread from this past year, and you will know what I am talking about.</p>
<p>Legacies- ND shoots for a 20-25% of their incoming class to be legacies. Therefore, along with the family atmosphere they promote, legacies receive "help". Basically, if two applicants are exactly the same, but one is a legacy.... then most likely they will take the legacy. My opinions are well documented on this subject... so Ill just end it with that.</p>
<p>Non legacy, non Urm, non recruited athlete- this is where it gets really really really tough. The admissions for this group rival HPYS. This is by far the largest applicant group, and ND takes only the best of the best. Its scary how some of these kids get rejected that fall into this group. You must be the BEST, if you want to be accepted from this group.</p>
<p>Thats how I see it.</p>
<p>Good summarization Tim! And, that last group is where the competitiveness really comes in!! And no, not everyone was an athlete in HS as son never played a sport in HS, but he is enjoying a club sport at ND now since there is a broad range of club sports/intramurals available compared to HS!</p>
<p>i thought i was in easy... i was rudely awakened... i was a non-legace non-urm non-varsity athlete...</p>
<p>act 33, rank 2nd, 12 ap's, varsity fball and bball captain... i didn't get in till i got off the waitlist... your friend is right in the middle of the pack--tim put it perfectly... i'd put him as a toss up like i was... i think my constant calling got me off the waitlist... making friends wit your regional rep REALLY helps... my regional rep was so nice she told me to come in and see her once i got to ND!</p>
<p>I shouldn't say intramurals necessarily, but bookstore teams have had sponsors for years. Kramer Properties and South Bend Orthopaedics come to mind from this past year, they had NIKE DryFit jerseys and shorts with their team logo. And the Morrissey Maniacs are sponsored by Coca-Cola and all they do is cheer for the volleyball team.</p>
<p>he was going to use it as a safety too...
better tell him about you jvon.</p>
<p>Haha ND a safety? If you can walk on water which, at the same time, you are turning into wine, perhaps.</p>
<p>Tim_ND,
I don't know much about ND but isn't the competition more along the lines of northwestern, duke, vanderbilt, etc, rather than HYP</p>
<p>If you read the post, remove URM and recruited athletes, and the admissions standards are near HYPS. The average SAT is around 1400, but most speculate that if you take out the two aforementioned groups, the actual number rises to about 1480-1520. It's tough. And especially considering how many families become "ND families," legacies become a large portion of the applicant pool, along with the sizable athletic recruitment that goes along with across-the-board success in a broad range of sports, I don't think it's much of a logical jump to say that it's noticeably more difficult than other schools that occupy a similar range in the rankings.</p>
<p>kevdude basically answered your question for me, rm.</p>
<p>yeah but i'm sure duke/northwestern are HYPS when you take out URM, recruited athletes, and legacies... maybe i'm wrong... just guessing... actually i'm sure legacies don't get as much attention anywhere else as they do at ND with the whole tight-knit family image it portrays, so maybe it is tougher</p>
<p>btw, i was rejected by duke (although i didn't call every day and establish a relationship with my regional rep at duke like i did at ND)</p>
<p>Based on not so scientific estimation probably half the applicant pool is recruited athletes, URM, legacies, or development cases. And since all of those groups are accepted at rates higher than other applicants (I mean athletes are accepted at 100% after all), those "other applicants" have to have an acceptance rate lower than the average 27%.</p>
<p>Jvon, didn't you get the 33 after you got rejected EA, though? Do you think that, had you gone RD with the higher ACT score rather than taking the ACT after getting deferred EA that you would have been accepted RD? I think you would have... Just don't want people to freak that you got waitlisted with a 33 out of the gate, you got deferred from EA with a lower score, then waitlisted. If anything, your case is a good argument for why an applicant might be better off to wait to apply RD unless you have one of the URM, leagcy, athlete type hooks to play, or you feel you have the kind of numbers they tend to cite on their website for EA apps.</p>
<p>see i don't get why it matters. I sent them my new ACT score along with a letter showing my interest. What does it matter if I got deferred--either way i was in the RD pool with a 33; I don't think it should make a difference how I got there (from the EA pool of deferrals or straight into RD pool).</p>