I can see that exaggeration is a comon theme on this thread. </p>
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I’ll agree that E_C has done some maturing, and will even venture to guess that he has learned a thing or two from posters here on CC. But, I don’t believe anyone who has taken the time to respond to his requests for opinions (he did ask us what we thought, no?) has done so with the intention of criticizing him.</p>
<p>Posters to this thread (and his other numerous requests for parents’ opinions) have tried to steer him in the best direction to the best of our abilities. Insight that E_C has shared into the dynamics of his family, led a number of posters to be concerned that he choose the most financially stable school.</p>
<p>Perhaps the parents who have followed his college search closely feel comfortable enough to communicate with E<em>C to offer additional advice that they thought he could use. Some of this was accepted and other suggestions were met with very defensive behavior (which is a completely normal human reaction, btw.) It may be that E</em>C is not ready to hear that he has a tendency to put other people’s choices down or to look at only the negatives in a situation. Heck, he is only a teenager. </p>
<p>However, there are a few adult posters who continue to berate those of us who are giving our (solicited) advice under the guise of protecting E_C. This is what I find surprising. It seems that even though he may get defensive with some of the things that have been said, he does evaluate the advice, and has found some of it to be useful. In fact, he now says Knox is his choice, which I believe is the school that most of us meanies were leaning toward. :)</p>
<p>You might have been treated differently if you didn’t tell us time and time again</p>
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<p>but at the same time you told us you didn’t do much more than read through the SAT and ACT prep books because you were too busy with school work. That doesn’t show much work ethic at all, and then to poo poo Georgia schools and tout them as 4th tier and insinuate you are too good for them, well…that does smell of entitlement that wasn’t earned.</p>
<p>Maybe I’m crazy. From what I know of EC his accomplishment compare pretty favorably with my daughter at his age - and he’s way, way ahead of where my son was at the time. But, of course, my son had really great test scores, National Merit and all of that, so the only thing we ever heard about his desire to leave the state for college was that he was “selling himself short” by not applying to Ivies.</p>
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In this particular thread, he asked for help deciding between Wheaton and Knox. The bottom line, at the outset, was that he preferred Wheaton but was unsure about the additional cost. This question is repeated all over CC by numerous posters every year. I’ve seen posters argue in favor of going into debt for a higher prestige school, or saving money and avoiding debt by opting for the lower-prestige but more affordable option, but this is the first time in 8 years on CC that I’ve ever seen a thread where the response is for a bunch of posters to try to convince the kid that the less expensive college is also unaffordable.</p>
<p>Calmom, nysmile has already accused me of being elitist. Which is quite funny IMO. Knox isn’t exactly an elite school by an means nor any school that I applied to. </p>
<p>I don’t believe in standardized testing, so I’m not going to waste my time studying hours and hours for a STUPID, ridiculous test which doesn’t test how smart you are, but does test how good one is at memorizing vocab. For you to question my work ethic is pretty darn laughable!</p>
Then maybe he could have retaken the test multiple time util he achieved the desired 2200 score, sent out a bunch of apps to Ivy League & top-20 colleges, and today be among the posters whining on the “angry about college admissions” thread about a bunch of rejections and waitlists, bemoaning the fact that athletes and URM’s from his high school with lower “stats” got into better schools.</p>
<p>Instead he worked smart and focused on the important stuff that colleges actually cared about, like signing up for a challenging set of AP courses his senior year and working to bring up his GPA – and using resources like CTCL & Fairtest.org to find the colleges that would appreciate what he had to offer.</p>
<p>I really love the CTCL schools. I probably would have added Beloit and Kalamazoo if I could go back. The great thing about the CTCL schools is that even the SAT required schools looked past my SAT scores. Clark, Wooster, Allegheny, OWU, Hiram, etc didn’t seem to care too much about my low scores, which put me in the lower 10% of admitted student’s SAT scores. Plus I got merit aid. Although, I did withdraw my application from Cornell College because they do not have a holistic admission approach and were going to deny me because of my SAT scores. </p>
<p>I think I would have applied to more reach schools actually which would have met my full need like Holy Cross, but overall I have no regrets. It’s so ironic that my only rejection is GCSU, when stat wise it’s much lower then all the schools I got into. I think it was a sign from God that they rejected me because it’s not meant for me to stay in Georgia.</p>
<p>Well, maybe not so much a sign from God. Probably more a sign that most instate schools (and community colleges) are usually where many if not most kids apply in their own states and end up and your SAT’s were just not competitive enough for admission. Many public schools are becoming more competitive all the time. But you did cast a wide net and Knox seems like a very good choice.</p>
<p>Please point me to the other thread, because I’ve missed it. It is not an “exaggeration” to speak the truth as I see it. </p>
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<p>I agree with EC. I made a HUGE mistake by putting pressure on my daughter to study for standardized tests, and will always chalk that up on the fortunately very short list of child-rearing & college-related regrets I have. It hurt my relationship with my daughter and did not in any way enhance the college admission process. </p>
<p>I am sorry that so many CC’ers place such misplaced value on the tests, which really aren’t that important to college admissions. I am guessing that maybe some of the hostility toward EC comes from parents who are still stinging from disappointment from their own kid’s college admissions process, because they and their kids totally misjudged their chances out of a misguided emphasis on test scores. I did experience that to a much lesser degree when my daughter was admitted to highly competitive colleges over other students with higher SAT scores-- I was accused of writing my daughter’s essays for her, or people made the assumption that we were a URM family, benefiting from affirmative action, etc. </p>
<p>I think the reason more and more mid-level colleges like Knox have gone SAT-optional is that the exams have very little predictive value. I’m sure that Knox and similar colleges have had their share of high-scorers who turn out to be slackers and substance-abusers. So it makes a lot more sense for them to look at the demonstrated accomplishments of their applicants than to let the process be skewed by easily manipulated factors like standardized test scores.</p>
<p>And I do think that intense study for the SAT’s is manipulation. It may be allowable, but it means that colleges are making assumptions that the student who scores 1950 on their first and only sitting is somehow less intellectually capable than the kid who scores 1700 but 2200 after parent-subsidized tutoring and test prep courses. </p>
<p>The tests mean very little. They don’t accurately measure intellectual ability and they don’t measure the type of skills needed for college exams. I think it is a shock for many kids who score well on standardized tests when they encounter a college environment they are expected to show evidence of complex and original thinking in essays and papers. My daughter answered all the questions on her first college midterm with the “right” answer – short and direct statement parroting back what she had learned from the reading – and she got a C. She learned very quickly that a lot more was expected to earn A’s.</p>
<p>I actually talked to an admission rep at GCSU for 20 minutes. They were looking for a 1500 and I had a 1420, so that’s the only reason they rejected me. Out of the people I know going to GCSU, their course rigor was no where near mine. Some didn’t even take many honors classes. The admission rep wanted me to be part of a summer bridge program, which is basically a remedial thing. I told him I wasn’t interested and that GCSU was the only school I applied to instate and BAM rejected. I really did make a compelling case though. But, it’s fine because I don’t want to go to a college where they care so much about SAT Scores. Plus all the conservatives from my school are going there haha ;)</p>
<p>But anyways, I did cast a wide net due to financial reasons and Knox ended up being the one. I just wish I could make it official lol…</p>
<p>I didn’t actually use the term “elitist” but I will none the less agree that I’m probably guilty as charged. I don’t tolerate elitism too well from people who, from what I know of them, aren’t particularly elite.</p>
<p>To be honest, lets be realistic. A lot of those state colleges I mentioned were “tier 4” colleges according to US News a couple years ago. Now, I do not believe in ratings, but at least I have facts to back up my claim. </p>
<p>If I was so elitist, I would have applied to Ivy and top 20 schools. Did I? CC is the basis of elitism as some users think SAT scores determine how smart one is.</p>
<p>I would also like to note that Knox was rated #88 in 2009 and is currently rated #71 now.</p>
<p>Please, do send the Knox admissions people an email and tell them you have made your choice! You don’t have to wait for the deposit to communicate that. Of course you will need to make the deposit to make it truly “official” --but I think you will feel better if you have told the school of your decision. I also am confident that you will have no problem paying the deposit when due, but if there is any problem (for example, a credit card glitch with the online system) – they are going to hold your spot and wait a few extra days. (I mean a situation such as the credit card is rejected on May 1, so you have to mail a check and it the check doesn’t arrive until 5 days later). </p>
<p>The colleges want their deposits so that they have accurate counts as to which students plan to come, and can let waitlisted students know if there are open spots. They aren’t trying to set up additional barriers for students whose checks just happen to be delayed in the mail.</p>
<p>calmom, I think we are having a “failure to communicate” here.</p>
<p>My point was not that there are other such threads, but that there are " a bunch of posters (who) try to convince the kid that the less expensive college is also unaffordable." I certainly never said such a thing.</p>
<p>And, as for the SAT. Even though I despise the saying: “It is what it is.” But just because you score poorly (and my DS’s score wasn’t good either, for that matter) doesn’t make the test “Stupid.”</p>
<p>Everything is not Black or White in life.</p>
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^^ This is what we call “the pot calling the kettle black.” </p>
<p>OMG E_C, You crack me up! In one short post, you state:
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and then:
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<p>C’mon, you’ve got to admit: that is laughable. :)</p>
That used to be considered “tier 2” until US news decided to put the top 100 college, rather than top 50, on the same page. My son applied to Reed when it was “tier 3” – I thought then and I think now that Reed is as academically strong as the University of Chicago. My son ended up graduating from what is now designated as a “regional university” – the current scheme for segregating the listings of colleges that US News doesn’t deem to be good enough. I would not consider it elitist or inaccurate to refer to that school as “tier 4” – on the contrary, I’d consider it a pretty accurate short cut, given the ranking system. He had an amazing opportunity via the tier 4 college, probably in part because the less competitive environment made him more of a stand-out student among his peers – so I think that his college choice worked out well, but I still wouldn’t be bothered by the “tier 4” label.</p>
<p>calmom, I certainly agree that SAT’s are not everything. Many less well known privates seem to be lowering the price tag with merit aid these days to remain competitive. Lots of parents would probably continue to pay full price if they needed to for places like Barnard, Swarthmore,etc.(Not me as both kids went public but there are still many who are willing to pay more than the price of a state school).Some other schools (like Knox, Allegheny,Alabama,etc) may need to lower prices with merit to attract students away from their instate choices. We were in that place (not poor but not rich either) that the instate choices made the most sense. Antioch seems to be wooing kids with free tuition so that they can get the college going again. Lots of choices out there for everyone. Glad early_college seems happy with Knox and that the finances will seem to be able to work out for him.
Edit:Ha ha. This is moving so quickly that my post is in response to calmom’s older post about SAT’s.</p>
<p>I just sent an email to Knox letting the admission officer that I will be attending, but that my father is waiting for a check from the IRS before we can make a deposit, but we’ll have it in by May 1st. I know it isn’t official, but it makes me feel a little better at least. I probably won’t tell everyone my decision until it’s official though. My dad just told me that he should have the check by Friday, so that’s good news. Even if I scored well on the SAT, I would still call it a “stupid” test. :)</p>
<p>I’d just comment at this point that a norm-referenced standardized test that can be studied for or repeated simply lacks validity as psychometric measure – that practice undermines the scoring system from the outset. So clearly (to me) the system of scoring the test is “stupid” - they are comparing apples to oranges and deliberately encouraging the conduct which compromises whatever accuracy or predictive validity the test could have.</p>