LAC for jazz musician/maybe not music major

<p>Sorry to be repetitive if you've already seen this in the "College Search" area!</p>

<p>Need suggestions for HS junior who is an excellent jazz musician, but who might not want to major in music. Will have incredible music references. 3.9-ish non-weighted GPA, top 10% of class, probably great SAT/ACTs. Which of the top 30 or so LACs would allow/encourage a student to perform in jazz ensembles as a non-major? Might minor in music, or double major, but who knows? Also, how do you highlight this standout expertise in the application process without promising a music major? Meet with the music department of colleges on visits? Would appreciate any ideas and/or advice!</p>

<p>He could dual degree at The New School University in NYC (Greenwich Village), utilizing 2 of their 8 schools; Eugene Lang College (liberal arts) and The New School for Jazz & Contemporary Music.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.newschool.edu/jazz/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.newschool.edu/jazz/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>and</p>

<p><a href="http://www.newschool.edu/lang/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.newschool.edu/lang/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Not a LAC, but Loyola of New Orleans has a good jazz program.</p>

<ol>
<li>Check into: Oberlin College, including the Conservatory has a huge new grant for a jazz studies program.
A student can attend Oberlin College, which is a top LAC, and major in music. This is NOT the same as being enrolled in the Conservatory. THe schools are combined socially but pursue different course requirements. College students can take courses in the "Con" however.
Perhaps college students can also minor in music, but I'm not sure. I'm SURE they can major in music (my H did). But heavens, EVERYBODY can take a course or many in Music there, right at the Con.
My D goes there now and says of all the schools she toured, Oberlin has the best ambient sound.<br>
Oberlin's appreciation of jazz goes way back. In the l950's, they gave a concert venue to the Dave Brubeck quartet. IN so doing, they were the first and only college classical music conservatory to have jazz performed from its stage. His recording live from Oberlin launched his national career. Dave Brubeck was so<br>
appreciative that to this very day, the quartet performs annually at the Con!</li>
</ol>

<p>The new jazz studies program will be astonishing.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>I have a nephew who plays sax and started jazz bands in his h.s., just loves it as an avocation. He's going to Brandeis, so I'm sure they have SOME jazz band thing going. But I recall also that GETTYSBURG was high on his list because of its jazz music offering, including overseas travel.</p></li>
<li><p>Wesleyan College in Connecticut has a very strong ethnomusicology department, if that's of interest. I can still remember the gong drum from the college tour.</p></li>
<li><p>Re: your question about highlighting the experience without promising the major, I think that will work itself out. Just highlight the experience. Some places don't ask what is your intended major, b/c they know it changes so much. Write majors that aren't music. Sometimes they ask for a few "possible" majors. The LAC's know that all of this is fluid, which is why you need not declare until end of soph year, when you know better what you want.
Am I missing something? Why risk insulting a music department by meeting in order to say "I don't want to major with you"? But if you have other questions, then of course meet.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>i know vassar, wesleyan, and conn college have high quality jazz groups</p>

<p>Columbia and Princeton</p>

<p>I know several students applying to conservatories and those two. Princeton has a top notch jazz program and Columbia's top ensemble is run as a pro band with NYC as its playground</p>

<p>As for how to highlight - send a demo and a resume - but make sure the quality playing on the demo matches the recommendations and the resume.</p>

<p>highlighting the expertise in music might also occur just within an essay, describing what's been done and what it means to the student personally</p>

<p>also, look out (sometimes fine-tooth comb) for the "Arts Supplement" to the Common App or to the college's own app. If they make this option available, that's a way to have tapes sent and reviewed by the department. But I'd think that'd more likely be for an intended major</p>

<p>There are also going to be places to list ExtraCurricular activities by category, including how many hours spent per week and during which years; awards won and so on</p>

<p>finally: teacher Letter of Recommendation (LOR); but be careful b/c sometimes they only want to read a core academic teacher's LOR. If so, an arts teacher can certainly write a Supplemental letter but just mark it as such so it's not confused with the core academic teacher rec.</p>

<p>Wesleyan came to mind. Oberlin too, of course, but I'd make sure he could be a non-music major and still have good opportunities. Lawrence is a place he could double major if that's what interests him. Williams has some good music, though I don't know particularly about jazz.</p>

<p>My S goes to Columbia -- definitely not an LAC -- but he's had a good jazz experience as a non-music major, with access to ensembles led by professional musicians, and private lessons for credit that we don't pay extra for.</p>

<p>My recommendation is to send in a CD. Given how easy it is to make one these days, you don't need to spend money on professional recording. Perhaps a music teacher could help. I know that my son loves to play music, but really hated writing about how he loves to play music. He sent CDs and wrote, instead, about his academic passions.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Need suggestions for HS junior who is an excellent jazz musician, but who might not want to major in music. Will have incredible music references. 3.9-ish non-weighted GPA, top 10% of class, probably great SAT/ACTs. Which of the top 30 or so LACs would allow/encourage a student to perform in jazz ensembles as a non-major?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Almost any of them. That's really the point of LACs...to allow things like non-music majors being heavily involved in music.</p>

<p>Ironically, the one exception to the general rule might be a very music-oriented school like Oberlin. You would have to do some research, but with all conservatory students, the last thing Oberlin needs is more musicians. There's an famous College Confidential story of a Interlochen camp level classical pianist with very high academic stats who applied to Oberlin as a non conservatory student and got rejected. </p>

<p>As for how to pursue....the best thing would be to contact the music departments at each school directly. E-mail works great, starting sometime in the summer, early fall. Just ask. At many schools, you need to (or are required to) send a CD if you want music considered on your application.</p>

<p>Lawrence in Wisconsin has a very good jazz program. The people I know who went there loved it. It woulld be a good safety, probably.</p>

<p>student can attend Oberlin College, which is a top LAC, and major in music. This is NOT the same as being enrolled in the Conservatory. THe schools are combined socially but pursue different course requirements. College students can take courses in the "Con" however.
Perhaps college students can also minor in music, but I'm not sure. >></p>

<p>Just want to clarify this. This comes directly from the director of admissions at Oberlin: students who are not in the conservatory can AUDITION to take music lessons in the conservatory, but if they are not accepted from the audition for lessons, they are not allowed to take lessons from conservatory teachers. They can, however, arrange independent lessons with conservatory students and sometimes with Con teachers, but they will not be for credit.</p>

<p>So, in reality, Oberlin may not be the best bet for someone who just wants to take music lessons, unless they are talented enough to get through the audition to permission to take music lessons in the conservatory.</p>

<p>Here, however, are a few LACs that I found recently for a student who was looking for LACs with jazz courses and/or jazz ensembles/performing opportunities. I am sure, however, that there are more out there. And, as has already been mentioned, quite a few small to mid-sized universities also offer jazz majors/minors/lessons/ensembles.</p>

<p>North Central College (IL - jazz studies major), Eugene Lang NYC (Jazz studies concentration), Augustana college IL-jazz minor, Jazz ensembles/lessons: Denison (OH), Wesleyan (CT), Willamette (OR), Occidental (CA), Grinnell (IA), U of Richmond.</p>

<p>Thank you for posting, sjth. </p>

<pre><code>I am interested in this topic also for S2, a strong but not superstar student who is very (really) talented on the alto sax but not sure he wants to be a musician professionally.

</code></pre>

<p>One thing I suggest, though, is going to college websites and put jazz ensemble in the search field. Not only will you learn about student ensembles, and how difficult the audition requirements sound, but you can get a feel for whether music performance is valued enough that there are several opportunities for students to perform and whether professional jazz ensembles come to the campus or the local city/town frequently. I second looking at Princeton, Wesleyan, Vassar for a start and also Lawrence in WI. What about McGill or NYU? I'm trying to look for places where going to see a jazz concert, student or professional, would be as natural as going to a basketball game might be in other colleges. And where the opportunities to perform are not limited to music majors only. </p>

<p>As for how your S's jazz EC is presented in the application, he should make the most of it particularly if it's his main activity (as it was for S1). If he's won solo awards or recognitions at high school or college jazz festivals --- even if they are not state or national awards --- list them anyway. If he's the lead on his instrument, list it. (In our h.s. jazz band, the director does expect sectional leaders to show leadership and guide the other members.) If he enjoys playing jazz and performing in the band enough to write about it, it can be the basis of a personal essay. If he performs in a combo that plays in public service venues ( the town's spring picnic or whatever, nursing home holiday parties, h.s. open house events), he can put that down as community service. IMO, adcoms recognize the commitment and skill required of a jazz musician, particularly if the student has stuck with it all four years, in the same way as commitment to athletics is recognized. It is clearly not something one can just jot down to pad one's resume.</p>

<p>Carolyn has a very good point. When we were looking for musically inclined colleges for a non-music major, we discovered that those with very strong music performance departments (or conservatories) actually had the fewest opportunities for participation (especially in ensembles).</p>

<p>Also, having had a fair amount of experience with music lessons for high schoolers within a conservatory (here in Rochester at Eastman) lessons from conservatory students are generally not very good. I guess if they're free or something they're better than nothing, but these students have busy and erratic schedules, and often just don't know how to teach. If given a choice here, the good students gravitate towards either a musician from our professional orchestra, a member of the Eastman community faculty, or even a collegiate faculty person (reserved for the very best high school kids and probably not an option for a random college student as it takes some inside work).</p>

<p>Another question to ask as you narrow the list: how do the ensembles treat situations where there are several talented players interested in performing on the same instrument? If the drill is to hold auditions, may the best player win, a jazz student who plays drums, bass, bari sax, et al. can wind up with few performance opportunities by sheer luck of the draw, even at an LAC.</p>

<p>I know you said LAC's, but I just want to point out that you can get some incredible individual attention at major universities. DS was interested in LAC's at the start of the seach process but, on a lark, he sent a jazz piano CD to Michigan(our state school) to see what would happen. The long and short of it is that he will be taking lessons in the jazz piano studio as a non-major with a couple of world class performers - Ellen Rowe and Jeri Allen. He'll also have the ability to take other Music classes and play in small combo's to see if he wants to eventually major/minor in Jazz Studies. Everyone thinks of Michigan as huge - which it is - but the jazz program accepts about 10-12 students a year, so the individual attention is incredible. Lesson to me was, when you are early in the process don't eliminate any schools until you have all the information.</p>

<p>Hiya, Tufts is technically not an LAC but it definitely has that LAC feel with only 5,000 kids on campus so I thought I'd reply.</p>

<p>My son is an alto saxophonist at Tufts and one of the reasons he chose Tufts was because of the musical opportunities for non-music majors. Why I think your S might consider looking more deeply into Tufts:</p>

<ol>
<li> Because Tufts has a dual degree program with New England Conservatory, the <em>most serious</em> of the musicians play with the N.E.C. ensembles. That leaves kids like mine, whose #1 EC was and is music, to audition for and get seated in tons of the Tufts Ensembles. He has been a member of the wind ensemble since freshman year (he's a junior now), and has been a member of several of their musicals' pit orchestras. Though he had the opportunity to audition for the Tufts jazz groups he decided his interests are in more classical music realm and did not, though several of his friends have done so and really enjoy it. Through meeting others like him, he and some friends created a saxophone quartet that plays around Boston for fun and a little pocket change. :) Look for the Saxyderms (get it? Tufts and Elephants? Yeah, I know it's a stretch but I didn't name them!) around town this spring!</li>
<li> Tufts has the spanking brand new Granoff Music Building which is absolutely exquisite and demonstrates Tufts' committment to its musical program.</li>
</ol>

<p>To showcase my son's interest and musical talent during the application process, my S sent along a CD of him playing sax in three different genres. His "most important EC" essay was about music. I would add that reaching out to the music department, especially the Jazz coordinators, by email to ask about the various jazz ensemble opportunities would earn some brownie points and demonstrate serious interest.</p>

<p>I would be happy to have my son talk to yours about music at Tufts if your son is interested. Just PM me</p>

<p>Two interesting data points on this. </p>

<p>(1) We have old, distant friends whose son is a very serious jazz trumpeter and a good student at a famous, strong high school. He was not so much interested in LACs, because he wanted the gigging/sitting in opportunities of a city, but he wanted a strong academic jazz program as well as other opportunities (and not a conservatory). He wound up applying ED to Columbia (and being accepted there). Other schools I know he looked at seriously were DePaul, Northwestern, Penn, Haverford and Swarthmore. There were some others, too.</p>

<p>(2) One of my son's best friends is a very good multi-instrumentalist (but principally violin), interested mainly in Renaissance and Baroque music. He auditioned at conservatories (and was accepted at some good ones) and also applied to LACs and a few universities. He was rejected at the Oberlin conservatory, but accepted at the college with the strong support of the head of the conservatory, and has been assured that he will be welcome in conservatory classes/performance opportunities if he goes there. The point is that the conservatory/college line there is somewhat permeable, and (at least with very popular instruments) "walk-ons" from the college are part of the system.</p>

<p>jazzymom - you might also consider Tulane. They have several jazz ensembles that are open to all students (by audition). In addition, they have the renowned Hogan Jazz archive that's an incredible resource. And there is nothing comparable to the live jazz music available for the listening in the city (not even including the annual Jazz fest). My son is a senior there and music is not his major - but is his passion. He works part time for a small local record label and attends tons of live performances. My younger son is an accomplished jazz sax player and has just decided to attend Tulane next year too. (He wrote his college essay on playing jazz sax)</p>

<p>also skidmore</p>

<p>Not technically a LAC, but he may want to check out University of Rochester. Its affiliation with Eastman School of Music allows non-Eastman students to take lessons from Eastman graduate students. There are a lot of ensembles at Rochester itself, so no preference for those ensembles is given to Eastman students (they have their own ensembles).</p>