<p>I don't really plan on going to graduate school. Would a LAC be the wrong way to go if I just want an undergraduate education?</p>
<p>I just attended a recruiting weekend at a top LAC and the director of career counseling addressed our group. He was really selling the value of a liberal arts education. At his LAC, the top investment banking companies recruit quite heavily. Many of the grads get good jobs in business, with non-profits and in teaching.</p>
<p>An LAC may be exactly the right way to go for an undergraduate education, but generally speaking it is less advantageous and helpful when it comes time to look for initial jobs.</p>
<p>The data on the number of recruiters that come to campus is available on one of the web sites; maybe Princeton Review? not sure where I found it. But it is out there. I looked at this data and it appeared to me from what I saw that grads of the LACs I looked at will need to take more intitative to find a job.</p>
<p>Of the LACs I was looking at,only a small number drew a substantial number of recruiters to their campus. Even where there was a very high ratio of recruiters per student, the absolute number and breadth of recruiters/ potential employers seemed relatively low compared to many universities. I suggest looking at these numbers if this is an important point for you.</p>
<p>This jives with my own experience as an employer. We wouldn't take time to visit a campus where we were likely to find only a few qualified and interested candidates.</p>
<p>As an example, here's some of the data I saved on the number of organizations recruiting on campus:</p>
<p>Brown (not LAC) 400
Carleton 43
Wellesley 179 </p>
<p>Now you know why all these LAC grads are heading for grad school and have such high PhD rates- they can't get a job!!!!</p>
<p>In the long run, if an LAC provides the best environment for you to develop, both in skills and as a human, then it may be the best place for you to go.
But in the near-term you may have to do a bit more scrambling to get your foot in the door.</p>
<p>Also, as the above data indicates, LACs vary considerably in the amount of recruiters they draw. It is a factor not only of their quality but also of the known business-mindedness of their student bodies, and their proximity to a major city and/or other colleges.</p>
<p>LACs tend to have stronger alumni networks than unis, which is very helpful in getting a job--in many job markets who you know is far more important than what you know. That said, as monydad said, for many, "an LAC provides the best environment for you to develop, both in skills and as a human," so I'd give LACs the edge for what you know as well. Finally, which LAC you go to makes somewhat of a difference here--while there are many great LACs, there are only a few with strong national reputations (Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore come immediately to mind) so take that into account.</p>
<p>You should know that getting a job with only a BA will be quite difficult for you no matter what school you go to.</p>
<p>Quote: "LACs tend to have stronger alumni networks than unis,..."</p>
<p>I do not think that is always the case at all.</p>
<p>From a recent higher ed article:</p>
<p>"There is a tradition among many elite universities that alumni have an obligation to provide career assistance to those who graduate after them. Besides the obvious benefits to alumni esprit, this type of network is an effective recruiting tool for the top universities when competing for the best high school students."</p>
<p>Universities may actually have more resources to develop stronger alumni networks.</p>
<p>LACs are smaller places and tighter communities--it usually leads to a stronger alumni network. The first alumni network was founded at Williams, which continues to have one of the strongest networks in the country. Obviously Unis will have larger alumni networks (for obvious reasons) but the influence of their networks on undergrads tends to pale in comparison to those of the elite LACs. For a quick comparison of facts, compare alumni giving rates of top LACs to top Unis. Even looking at the Unis best known for their alumni networks, you'll find schools like Dartmouth, an extremely LAC-like Uni, invariably top the list. If I was deciding between Amherst and Columbia (two similarly competitive schools) simply based on alumni network, I would choose Amherst hands down.</p>
<p>In 35 years, living on both coasts and in the middle, I have never had an employer who even knew what my LAC was (the same one as Haon), nor ever received even the slightest assistance from the alumni network in employment (except for a summer job right after college.)</p>
<p>If you want alumni connections that count, outside of the northeast, your best bet by far is likely your state university (I'd probably make an exception for Brigham Young.)</p>
<p>mini--you're definitely an exception to that rule. I'm at the beginning of my 3rd year in College and I've already felt the benefits of the alumni networks several times. All of the alumns I've met and talked to about my college have gushed about how much the network helped them out in their career, and judging by my experience so far, I'm sure I will join their ranks in 10-20 years.</p>
<p>Even if these alumni all want to help you, there are far fewer of them out there, in far fewer fields, than the grads of many state universities.</p>
<p>The state u grads out here are incredibly loyal to their alma mater. Football and Basketball competition promotes a sort of "us vs. them" mentality that helps consolidate the "us".</p>
<p>These state U grads are everyplace out here, and they run everything.
They like to help their own too.</p>
<p>As for my own school (not LAC) I've tried to get people at my firm to recruit there a couple times. But when I was at the investment bank, another alum, when I mentioned someone went to our alma mater, say "so what?"</p>
<p>Hopefully your school ties will be more advantageous to you. Report back in 25 years.</p>
<p>I don't think I am at all an exception to the rule. You can't get help from alumni if they aren't there. (The most help, by the way, when it occurs, is almost always in the first 3 years.) And the vast majority of employers will never have heard of the place (the closest I ever came was one employer who would tell folks that I came from William & Mary, which was okay by me.)</p>
<p>In contrast, where I work now, the state unis and Brigham Young networks for employment are very, very strong.</p>
<p>I received a great education at a LAC, and it definitely would NOT be a mistake as a place to go for an undergraduate education. I just wouldn't overplay the alumni networking thing - you might be very disappointed later.</p>
<p>LAC's are not there to train you for a career, they are there to enlighten and educate you. So if you're looking to jump straight into a career from college, you're probably better off with a bigger school.
Than again, your plans may change within the next four years and when they do, many LAC's have fantastic career advisement offices and alumni associations to help you and your professors will actually get to know you and be able to help you as well.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Universities may actually have more resources to develop stronger alumni networks.
[/quote]
We are...Penn State! Penn State, a behemoth uni, has one of the largest and most loyal alumni networks anywhere.</p>
<p>Quote:</p>
<p>"As an example, here's some of the data I saved on the number of organizations recruiting on campus:</p>
<p>Brown (not LAC) 400
Carleton 43
Wellesley 179 </p>
<p>Now you know why all these LAC grads are heading for grad school and have such high PhD rates- they can't get a job!!!!"</p>
<p>Approximately, every year, Brown has 1430 students who graduate and need jobs. Wellesley has only 545. So, if one organization recruites 3 students on each campus, basically every student at Wellesley would have a job offer, but 230 students at Brown would be left out in the cold.</p>
<p>Williams, Amherst, Holy Cross, Bowdoin, and Colgate have some of the strongest alumni networks. Also the alumni giving rate for these schools are all around 50%, much higher than many universities.</p>
<p>In post # 3 above, I said</p>
<p>"Even where there was a very high ratio of recruiters per student, the absolute number and breadth of recruiters/ potential employers seemed relatively low compared to many universities."</p>
<p>Wellesley had nearly double the number of recruiters of the next highest LAC I looked at. It is located near Boston/Cambridge, where many recruiters are heading anyway, so they don't have to make much of a special effort to visit Wellesley while they're at it. Also Wellesley is well known to have many students who are interested in economics and business careers.</p>
<p>Wellesley's recruiting situation is really relatively good. When I worked at an investment bank it was one of the very few LACs, or colleges period for that matter, we visited. Most LACs are not in as enviable a situation as Wellesley is in, in this regard.</p>
<p>But if it were me, I'd rather take my chances with the 400 recruiters at Brown. More choices. Even if the recruiters also have more choices. After all, the more choices are exactly what induced more than half of them to show up at Brown, and not at Wellesley.YMMV.</p>
<p>"Williams, Amherst, Holy Cross, Bowdoin, and Colgate have some of the strongest alumni networks. Also the alumni giving rate for these schools are all around 50%, much higher than many universities."</p>
<p>That doesn't make them the strongest alumni network. Even though giving rate plays a role in determining strength of alumni network, I think the biggest factor is size of school. I would argue that University of Michigan has the strongest alumni network in the nation. Go to any city, any place, you will a strong UMich alumni presence.</p>
<p>I went to a middle of the road state univ. -Texas Tech -- and I have had over my 22 years. Numerous job opportunites and 'business connections' through Tech. In Texas just try and compete with the UT Exas and Aggie Assoc Former Student ... even Techs group gets some coverage. </p>
<p>I have lived around the world as well as several areas of US esp west coast. Texas A&M, Michigan, Penn State, Texas, LSU, UCLA, all come to mind as publics --the ivys stanford, USC, for privtes --if you are looking for alumni connections. Truth be told that all fades 3-5 years out anyway</p>
<p>Like mini said there may be reasons --good ones -- to attend LACs but jobs/connections/alumni base are not one of them.</p>
<p>Well of course it depends on what type of job you're looking for after you graduate. Williams, A and S will be sought by investment banks on a par with the ivies, but once you get past a handful of top LACs I can't help but think you're better off at a university where recruiters are known to come. As monydad said its a function of numbers... I remember seeing a figure of 900 recruiters at my son's school of 5,400 undergrads; even accounting for the extra student population it has to at least be somewhat easier to make connections and get interviews for internships and jobs than at a smaller school that has just 43 recruiters or even 100. Kids and parents tend to not give much attention to that number when applying, maybe they should. </p>
<p>I was also interested to see that of 120 interns in the summer of 2004 where S interned only one was from an LAC...Middlebury. The other 119 came from research universities where you would expect to see substantial on campus recruiting. Admittedly this was a tech sector not i-banking, and I guess there aren't too many computer science/engineering/(?)business majors coming from LACs but I thought there'd be more representation for LACs as a group (this was at a well known top NYC investment bank).</p>
<p>"Williams, A and S will be sought by investment banks on a par with the ivies"</p>
<p>This may be true now, I can't say,but in the 90s I worked at a major investment bank that did not recruit at these schools, to the best of my recollection. </p>
<p>Virtually all of the analysts (entry level after undergrad) in my department, over a ten year period, came from the Ivies, MIT, former seven sisters, and Middlebury College.</p>