<p>Any advice from parents whose kids have been in a similar situation? I have been offered a good honors/scholars option at a solid state school (only 1300 kids admitted into the program per year) which includes special honors housing, advising and priority registration. Or should I attend the well regarded smaller university (Wake Forest) with no special designation or scholarships? I?m trying to keep the $$ issue separate as my Parents have said they?d pay for Wake if that is what I choose. What I am trying to get at is the benefits that each may offer.</p>
<p>runnergrl: What's the state school?</p>
<p>DD was in a similar situation last year. She ultimately chose the smaller school. Her high school was small, and she felt the larger school was not as personal as she wanted. For her, this was the right decision. We asked our daughter to make a list of pros and cons for each school, then we did the same. The final decision, however, was hers...it was not easy.</p>
<p>My S is a junior and will be likely in the same situation next year. He can get a very good merit scholarship from some public schools that offer Honors Program and he has the stat to get into some good private schools that offer only need base aid which he, most likely, will not qualify. I am interested in some of the actual experience in this regard as well.</p>
<p>If money is not the issue, and the major/programs you are looking at are equal, then it really depends on your personality. Small town/rural/big city, declared or undeclared........give more info!</p>
<p>Is the money really equal? i.e., would your parents pay (some of) the difference between state and Wake for enhanced educational opportunities?</p>
<p>Our D had that choice back in '02. She literally went back and forth for weeks between accepting admisssion to her chosen LAC versus an honors program at a state U that included a partial tuition scholarship. The LAC was pricey and full-pay as we did not qualify for any need-based aid. </p>
<p>We left the choice totally up to her. She ended up going with her heart. NO regrets.</p>
<p>Now she is happily employed in a wonderful job in her field. </p>
<p>By the way, she had no idea of her major when she went to the LAC - figured she might be a Lit or Government student. Turns out she gave an economics class a try and the prof (when running into her in the gym one day) told her she had a talent for the field and asked her to consider economics as a major. THIS is the kind of thing that would have been much less likely to have happened at the state school. </p>
<p>So we are very pleased with the outcome and feel her choice was an excellent fit for HER.</p>
<p>There are some students who would do just as well wherever they went, but for our D the nurturing and support of the LAC was a big, perhaps critical, plus. She remains in contact with some profs there. </p>
<p>Who knows what would have happened with "the road not taken?" Certainly she would have graduated with money left in her college account, but what would be the rest of the story? The road she chose worked out well - at least so far -- and none of us has any regrets. </p>
<p>You are fortunate that your parents are not asking you to make this decision based on cost. Thank them. This is an approach most families can't take. Make the most of whichever you decide on.</p>
<p>P.S.
We did want her to have some "skin in the game" so did ask her to contribute to some of the additional LAC cost through some modest Stafford loans. She also was able to save one semester's costs by using her AP credits to take a one-semester leave and do an independent (and paid) abroad experience rather than a traditional abrooad experience for which she would have had to pay. She graduated right on schedule, and actually could have graduated a semester early as she had plenty of extra credits.</p>
<p>Her loan payments are $100/month.</p>
<p>Our son had a very similar choice last year. Wake (and some other private schools) and a well regarded honors program at his State U. State U gave him multiple scholarships so the difference in $ was quite significant. Programs in his major at both schools were good. He took state U and we are saving $ for grad school for him. Plus funding study abroad and such. He's happy and doing well but I do think it's a VERY individual thing and the best choice is different for everyone. The kids who seem to do well in the honors program are self motivated and seek out opportunities. And there are plenty. IMO, those who sit back aren't really gaining much from the honors program. No matter what, State U is still a big place and there's very little hand holding. Those who like a more personal environment and tend to be passive in seeking opportunities might do better in a small place like Wake.<br>
I often wonder how my son would be doing at a place like Wake right now. Who knows? Two kids from his high school went there last year. One is thriving. The other transfered to his State U after one semester!</p>
<p>you might get better advice if you give the name of the state school; this is an anonymous forum, and with 1300 kids accepted nobody is going to know which one you are.</p>
<p>In general, though, I'd advise looking very carefully at exactly what the honors college provides. The way they're promoted they sound like a LAC that happens to be housed on the campus of big U, but this is not really the case.</p>
<p>Most honors college programs only offer the small classes and top profs the 1st 2 years, when for liberal arts majors its easier to craft a standard set of offerings that will meet the distribution requirements for almost any major. And at a school that's accepting 1300 kids per year into the honors track, it may be hard to provide small classes for the honors kids even the 1st 2 years.</p>
<p>It is rare to find more than a token amount of offerings upper-division since the honors program simply doesn't have enough staff to duplicate an entire major or set of majors. So the last 2 years most/all classes are taken with the rest of the students in the regular U's classes. Since the teaching of the profs will be geared towards that level, the discussions and student involvement in class will be dominated by the majority of her peers, and so on. </p>
<p>Honors programs offer perks like early registration, guaranteed housing, and so on and its worth doing if you're going to that school anyway. But I would be skeptical of attending a college for its honors program in place of a college you think would be a better fit.</p>
<p>The state school is Ohio State in Columbus, Ohio. I know the benefit of this gargantuan institution is that anything I want to study is going to be here but on the other hand going to such a large institution suggests other problems. Will I still be face in the crowd even though I am in the honors/scholars program? If I go to Wake without any distinction at all, will I be just a standard issue, basic kid there? The Princeton Review books are not very flattering to Wake Forest which concerns me. It says that the profs are very tough and although I am very good student, I am not by any means a genius. So maybe what I am most afraid of is going to Wake and not doing well.</p>
<p>runnergrl - Having attended a relatively high quality mid-size (4000 undergrad) university 25 years ago (Lehigh), I often think the "personal" and
"high touch" nature of the LACs might be overstated. At Lehigh I had friends and fraternity brothers who thrived, and others who completely bombed because of their individual profiles and work ethics. The suitability of each school really depends on the kid. </p>
<p>If you're a self-motivated and confident person who is not intimidated by a large school, the large school arguably offers more options for majors, more opportunity to meet more friends and types of people, and perhaps more energy in general. The money available will reduce the financial burden and keep your financial powder dry for grad school, international travel, a car in your later college years, whatever. If you genuinely feel that a smaller situation like Wake truly fits your personality, you should be true to that.</p>
<p>For example, my son and I viisted Penn State last summer. He's always wanted a large school, but we visited Dickinson on the way home -a small LAC in Carlyle PA. Dickinson is a very highly respected institution, but my son;s reaction was immediate - he could not imagine spending 4 years in such a small and confined space. He thought he would become bored and feel hemmed in very quickly. That's his personal preference, but everyone has their own. You need to do a "gut check" and see where your heart lies.</p>
<p>runnersgirl = we heard the same things about "work forest" and I must admit it did spook my son a bit. From what we've heard, seems like the tough grading is balanced by good teachers and small classes though. Some kids think the hard work is worth it and don't worry too much about not getting A's. Also, the Greek system is BIG at Wake - this might be a plus or a minus depending on your perspective.<br>
Agree with HVCGolf about going with your heart. My son had pretty much the same experience as his son at Dickinson (thought he would be bored to tears by second year). He chose PSU too (over Wake, Lehigh and Richmond). We actually liked the smaller schools - but it was all about what HE liked.</p>
<p>toneranger - remarkably similar set of circumstances/schools to my son's.</p>
<p>runnergrl: I remember you were deferred EA from UNC-CH; what happened with the deferral? I assume that's not an option for you at this point. I agree with others--that it depends on whether you want a large school or small. Since money doesn't seem to be an issue with Wake Forest, and you have a scholarship at Ohio State, you should go to the school where you feel the most comfortable. There are a couple of people on CC whose kids have recently transferred out of Wake Forest; you might want to post a thread and ask why--or post a new one with the names of both these schools. That way, you might get more specific information regarding each school.</p>
<p>You know, some of these state school honors programs CAN be just as "personal" as a small LAC, and when they combine that with the opptys of a large university, so many options open up for the kid. Yes, it may depend on the kid searching out the options, but sometimes the options are thrust upon them.</p>
<p>My oldest D is at a large state u (30,000) and her roomate started out in environmental engineering, one of the profs loved her so he got her a paid job over xmas break with an engineering firm. Well, she hated it (she thought she was going to save the planet, not help "the man" get past the epa), so she signed up for honors geology (she loves camping) and THAT prof loved her so he convinced her to change her major and got in a summer dig in Colorado and got her a stipend to pay for it. Her second year she did research for the prof and he then got her a paid trip to China the second summer, plus a job with Shell when she got home. Now Shell is in love with her, gave her an extra scholarship and a research job for her third summer, and she's going back to Colorado this summer, has a job offer from Shell, and they are going to pay for grad school if she wants to do that. She is still doing research with the prof to beef up the grad school apps.</p>
<p>My D hasn't been so lucky with the jobs, etc, but she has two audiology profs who love her and one of them is taking a personal interest in getting her clinicals for the fall and helping her pave her way for her grad school options. (ugh - personal gripe, but with audiology you can't get licensed w/o a doctorate so we are looking at 4 more years of school after ug!).</p>
<p>Anyway, it IS possible to get a LOT of personal attention from profs in an honors program - that's why they have them at these big state schools!</p>
<p>IMO, you're better off to go with the school that has $$$ to spend on undergrad research opportunities. In many cases, this turns out to be the major state universities or private large universities.</p>
<p>runnergrl, I am an OSU alum and enjoyed my years there long ago. Your concern about being just another face in the crowd is a valid one. However it really depends on your major. There were only about 35 students in my civil engineering class and it was a LAC environment within the department. Many other engineering, math and physical science departments are similar. If you will be majoring in the more popular departments like the social sciences, education, economics, etc the environment will undoubtedly be different.</p>
<p>WFU is a wonderful university and I do not really consider it a LAC because of its size and graduate school. I personally think that colleges the size of WFU are ideal. Our son goes to a similarly sized college and has found that it has the academic facilities of a large university and some of the personal attention of a LAC.</p>
<p>Best of luck.</p>
<p>You know, I never thought about it like that, but at D1's school there aren't that many geology majors, not are there many speech/audiology majors, so the profs in each dept pretty much are on a first name basis with everyone in the dept. It's probably easier to get personal attention at a large univ. in such a situation, honors college or no.</p>
<p>As for research dollars that may also depend on the field. At this same large univ., the geology dept, while small, gets lots of dollars from the oil companies. More $$$ per capita than other larger depts at that school. Until D1 roomed with this outdoorsy girl I had no idea of the lucrative possibilities with geology, but I guess the energy sector is desperate to find new reserves of oil, coal and gas and are therefore more than willing to find and fund talent.</p>
<p>One of my boys is in a large state college right now and my other son is in a small liberal arts type college . I think everything depends on the student. Some kids thrive in a large college atmosphere, they love everything about it, the football and other athletic games, the crowded mall, the huge lecture halls, the buildings designed by South American architects, the crowds, the great oppportunity in course selection, etc..The disadvantage I feel is son does not receive close attention by anyone on the faculty.To do well in a large school environment one needs to be self motivated and able to confidently chart his own course.
My other son is quite happy in his small academic community. He receives more individualized attention and praise, closer bonds with all the kids , more personal opportunites in his field, a closer bond with faculty, etc. You can't not be noticed on a small campus. Anyone unusual or different will stand out and these types seem to want to move on if they don't find their nitch or friends.I would say a person needs to be a good communicator, a good people person on a small campus. You can't hide in the crowd. On a smaller campus you are also subject to cliques or small groups and could feel out of it if you do not move with the flow, if you know what I mean.</p>
<p>backhandgrip: Nice summary. S has thrown out all other choices and is down to two: One is state school of 25000 underegrads plus grad schools and the other is 300 undergrads only. Like's them both though. 12 more days of angst.</p>