<p>How do they compare?</p>
<p>i'm really interested in both and i wondered what the pros and cons of each were</p>
<p>First off, both are excellent schools. Oberlin however is a more "progressive" school where people are not afraid to voice themselves (very liberal, as most lacs are). Lawrence is a little more laid back in my opinion.</p>
<p>Rankings wise, Oberlin has the edge..but both schools are extremely good, and comparable. I'de visit both and see which was the better "fit", because again, they are comparable.</p>
<p>My daughter goes to Lawrence, and my son did an overnight at Oberlin.</p>
<p>Are you comparing Colleges, Conservatories, or Both?</p>
<p>I think Oberlin's Conservatory has the edge, at least for Voice. But, Lawrence's Conservatory is quite rigorous.</p>
<p>Oberlin is very liberal. I joked that you can tell how liberal a school is by their dorm policy. First to have coed dorms. Now they have coed bathrooms.</p>
<p>Lawrence's College consistently places high in listings of Liberal Arts Colleges. Appleton is also one of the safest cities. Although, I can't imagine much crime in Oberlin. I haven't heard much good or bad about Oberlin's college.</p>
<p>D looked at both and felt LU was a much better fit for her. I agree that both are excellent schools. The atmosphere at the 2 schools (both the conservatory and the college) is quite different, though. I think visits to both would be very important. D leans very left and thought Oberlin was far beyond her spot on the spectrum. LU leans left but I agree with the earlier poster that it is more laid back and probably has a more moderate student body. The atmosphere in the conservatory (for voice) was also decidedly more competitive between studios which was not D's preference. She is now a junior at LU and is getting wonderful training in the conservatory and in her liberal arts classes. </p>
<p>The other important issue for D was the interface (basically seamless) between the college and the conservatory at LU. The conservatory and the college at Oberlin are actually independent but they do offer a double degree program. If students are not in the double degree program, very few liberal arts classes are required of conservatory students. This is not the case at LU where about a third of the courses for music students are in liberal arts and all students are required to complete the Freshman Studies sequence.</p>
<p>I think you would get a great education at either (if you chose the double degree program at Oberlin) but do visit -- I think this is very important if both of these schools are on your short list.</p>
<p>Best of luck.</p>
<p>great, I will be sure to visit both. I'm looking for an LAC with a great music scene/program. Though I am not quite conservatory quality, (not classically trained- i'm a folk musician) music is a very important part of my life and I want to go to a college where music would be an integral part of the campus.
I consider my self to a be a liberal person and I don't have a preference for how "liberal" the college is. progressive or moderate would suit me fine.
thanks everyone for the great info!</p>
<p>Son has applied to Oberlin and Lawrence for jazz and possibly a dual major. He seems to have a good chance of acceptance at both, although the LA college at Oberlin is a reach (the music is not). He also suspect Lawrence is a better fit personality-wise and have visited both. Son is liberal but appreciates diversity of opinions more akin to the "real" world. That's not a dis on Oberlin but more of a comment on fit. But, he likes both and they are likely his choices #1 and 2. He was encouraged to apply to top cons ala Eastman but only wants an integrated LA/BM program and wants to mingle freely among both worlds.</p>
<p>On the east coast, Oberlin has big name recognition while Lawrence is almost unknown. We are frorm CT and this year's freshman class has a whopping 2 students from here. We are self-confident and generally, not brand-conscious folks (my son even more than me) but I guess I'd love to here from anyone who had the choice of both schools for music (or not) and chose Lawrence. I'd also like to hear about scholarships if you were offered them from both.</p>
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<p>sorry for all the typos. I am a terrible typist and thought I could edit them out.</p>
<p>From what I hear I think I'm leaning towards Lawrence. Though I'm very liberal, I appreciate diversity of opinion and love a good debate. I think I might be bothered by the over-progressiveness of Oberlin. Another that stands out for me when looking at the two schools is that Lawrence has a Div I NCAA Fencing team. Fencing is important to me, almost as much as music. I've also heard that Lawrence has some of the best financial aid packages of any of the top tier liberal arts colleges. In my mind, Lawrence has pulled ahead just a bit over Oberlin. Thanks everyone!</p>
<p>The scholarships at Lawrence are in the $10-$15 K range. I think almost everyone who is decent will get at least $10k. The total cost to attend Lawrence is about $40k/yr. They do not "stack" their scholarships. So, you can get an academic and music scholarship, but you can't combine them. So, expect about a net $25k cost. Depending upon EFC, you can get a few $ thousand more in grants, but the rest will be loans and college work study. To me, I count the Loans as part of the cost, since those have to be repaid.</p>
<p>My son has worked 20 hours a week since Freshman year on campus and during the summer on campus; he has great financial aid as well. Costs are less in Appleton and on campus in general. So if you want to work and study and in this climate not a bad thing to do, they make it easy. He has been able to make all his own spending money. But he has been involved in campus activities and music and did some internships as well. There is a whole lot going on.</p>
<p>I though I'd just post again to see if anyone here applied to Oberlin and Lawrence for music or dual degree, was accepted at both, and chose Lawrence. And, what were the factors that lead to choosing Lawrence? Thanks.</p>
<p>Though your child may already have chosen between Lawrence and Oberlin, I’d like to comment on Lawrence for future readers of this thread. Our daughter has selected Lawrence for its spectacularly beautiful campus, seamless access to both the conservatory and college, and exceptional caliber of student and faculty she met on each of her many visits. We visited dozens of schools, including Ivies, and nowhere did we meet more engaging, bright, and apparently happy students. These kids seemed emotionally light years ahead of kids we met at the more selective colleges The music faculty in particular was at the top of their game and in the prime of their careers. And though Oberlin is, of course, an amazing choice (more well known), our daughter declined to visit after hearing the campus & town were less than lovely. And yes - the merit and service scholarships from Lawrence are a huge draw for these kids. Though we had budgeted to pay full retail, our daughter feels less stress knowing she is costing the family less than the anticipated cost.</p>
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<p>I have applied to/auditioned at Lawrence and Oberlin, and they have turned out to be my top schools. I’m basically torn between them. I am a jazz saxophonist seeking to pursue the double-degree option at either school. What can you enlighten me with about either school or is there any advice you might have? Anything is appreciated, thank you.</p>
<p>Several people, but no one particularly close to Oberlin, have said that at Lawrence the conservatory and the liberal arts are much more inter-connected than they are at Oberlin. I say this without any real opinion as to whether that’s an advantage or a disadvantage.</p>
<p>My son applied and was accepted at both. He chose Oberlin and is very happy there as a junior, so my answer is going to be biased obviously.
Objectively, here are a few things to consider that are specific to the jazz curriculum. </p>
<p>First, Lawrence does not have a jazz MAJOR. It is a jazz EMPHASIS; This was not clearly spelled out IMO during his application process. A performance degree is a classical performance degree; this was a dealbreaker for my S, even though Oberlin does (wisely) require classical instruction as part of the requirement. He had no interest in a classical piano performance degree, and probably would not have applied if we had been smart enough to figure out the distinctions before he auditioned.</p>
<p>Second, Lawrence’s jazz faculty seems to teach jazz and classical. Nothing wrong with that but Oberlin has a separate dedicated and IMO, great, jazz faculty. Also noted though, the jazz program director at Lawrence is a wonderful teacher and musician and really tried his best to get my son to go to Lawrence with a lot of honest discussion and small-school attention. </p>
<p>Third, Oberlin has a brand-new jazz building (30M?) equipped with things like a state of the art mac lab, all new steinways including a huge German Steinway that cost something like $150k, an awesome recording studio, and what are probably the biggest and best collections of jazz recordings and vintage jazz photographs anywhere in the world. </p>
<p>Our younger S is a conservatory-level jazz bassist HS senior who is not interested in attending a Con and has applied to the Oberlin College of Arts & Sciences, hoping that if he goes he can take lessons from the amazing jazz bass teacher in the Con. We’ve looked at a bunch of the “best” LA colleges in the Northeast and although he has strong interest in several of those (decisions pending), none can compare to the arts facilities and programs we found at Oberlin, IMO. </p>
<p>With respect to the previous post, I am not sure what “better integration” means but I can tell you I know quite a few dual degree students who all tell me they love what they are doing at Oberlin. I am sure you will hear the same thing at Lawrence too. </p>
<p>Good luck to you - I hope you will be lucky enough to be able to choose either school!</p>
<p>I can’t speak to the con/jazz issues, but I can comment on both schools from a more general perspective. My wife and I are LU grads (lets just say it was long ago). My older daughter attended Oberlin for a year as a LA major, didn’t care for it, and transferred. My younger daughter is considering LU and we recently visited and toured. </p>
<p>Oberlin College is twice the size of LU. The town of Oberlin is miniscule (@8,000 pop) with few activities that are not related to the college. Few restaurants and shops. There are malls and restaurants in adjacent communities, but you would need a car to get there. LU is located on one end of College Avenue, a shopping and restaurant district. Appleton is @ 78,000 population and part of the Fox River Valley Metro Area. Entertainment touring through the area will generally do shows in Appleton. Based on prior visits to Appleton, I’d say that the College Avenue area has rebounded and is now more commercially vibrant than it was 10 years ago. You can easily walk down College Avenue from the school. LU also has the Bjorklunden campus on Lake Michigan in Door county, which is a very beautiful area. I’m admittedly biased, but I think Wisconsin is prettier than Ohio. I don’t live in either state.</p>
<p>Both colleges are liberal, with Oberlin being more so. While students are more activist at Oberlin, I certainly didn’t find them extreme at all. I’d agree with the characterization that LU is more laid back. Oberlin has a great coop dining/residential system with a substantial number of students participating. While Oberlin dorms are mostly coed by room, floor residents vote on how they want to deal with bathrooms - a single vote would preclude coed bathrooms. Almost all dorms have coed bathrooms. My daughter never considered it an issue.</p>
<p>Both schools are academically rigorous with the edge probably going to Oberlin. Plenty of opportunity to do well and go on to graduate and professional schools coming out of both schools (FWIW I’m an attorney and my wife is a physician). Both schools have great track records for graduates going on to PHD programs.</p>
<p>Both schools give significant merit money. I believe the top merit award was $18K when my daughter attended Oberlin. I think LU’s top merit award at the time was $15K. But LU costs less than Oberlin. I don’t know how each school approaches need based aid, so that would be worth investigating.</p>
<p>Both schools have invested in their facilities. LU has many new buildings and has expanded and modernized the Con, as well as the main Science building, student center and dining facilities. A substantial improvement from when we attended. Oberlin does have a really wonderful new jazz center, as well as a new “green” dormitory. I understand their art museum is being renovated currently.</p>
<p>LU draws many students from the Midwest. While Oberlin certainly has many students from the Midwest, it does draw more from the East Coast than LU. It may also draw more international students, particularly to the Con. My daughter’s roommate was a piano performance major from Korea. I think LU has a somewhat different culture than Oberlin because of the student mix (which perhaps accounts for its more laid back atmosphere).</p>
<p>Ultimately, both are great schools, and they offer a wonderful educational opportunity to their students. However they differ enough that it would be best to visit and do an overnight if possible.</p>
<p>I auditioned at Lawrence and have been there twice total and also visited Oberlin but ultimately decided not to audition there because the place didn’t make me feel at home like LU.</p>
<p>Here’s some facts (as free of bias as possible):</p>
<p>LU offers only BM and BA degrees, whereas OC gives out BM, BA, and BS degrees, so it may be a better option for sciences majors. I am under the impression that OC dual degree students cannot go for a BM and a BS; they have to choose BM and BA. Also, in the Music Major section there is some discussion about which is the better school for a double degree and the consensus is that Lawrence has the edge here, as Oberlin is somewhat divided. (Perhaps this has some tie to how it’s Lawrence University and Lawrence University Conservatory of Music and the other is Oberlin College and Oberlin Conservatory of Music.) </p>
<p>Oberlin is more nationally known than Lawrence, both for their LAC and conservatory.
(I’d stray away from rankings on the music end but Oberlin has the ranking edge in terms of LAC.)</p>
<p>Oberlin does indeed have twice the student body of Lawrence and a much less moderate one at that.</p>
<p>Oberlin’s jazz building is ridiculously nice and they have a wider range of music majors offered than Lawrence.</p>
<p>Lawrence is COMPLETELY undergraduate; Oberlin parades themselves around as solely undergraduate but they do actually have some grad students.</p>
<p>Appleton would probably be cause for less shell-shock for anyone from a major city than Oberlin; anyone from small town America should be able to handle either, albeit Oberlin would probably be less of a change from your regular farm town.</p>
<p>Lawrence is within an hour of Lambeau Field and Oberlin is within an hour of the Browns… I think we all know who wins that one.</p>
<p>The campuses are both small and very nice but not very similar.</p>
<p>Oberlin has a relatively (by proportion) large and active Jewish student body for those interested, with a housing coop to boot. Lawrence started a Jewish student group this year if I recall correctly and it has about 20 students, a large number of whom aren’t Jewish. </p>
<p>If you can’t tell from my post I’m a Jewish pianist from Wisconsin, so that’s why the facts that came out did. I hope it helped!</p>
<p>Correction to my above post: Oberlin does not have BS degrees.</p>
<p>I should also note that LU has fraternities and sororities while Oberlin does not. While the Greek system contributes to the social scene at LU, it certainly doesn’t dominate it. Based on the number of operating houses when we visited, there are fewer frats now than when I attended (6 then and 4 now). IMHO, if you have concerns about fraternities and sororities at a school (and some people do), it really shouldn’t affect your consideration of LU. There is a lot more to LU than the Greek system.</p>