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<p>You are correct, at least partially. However, young people are impressionable and 10k/mo can be a mighty big impression. And I can go back in history many thousands of years where the predominantly consistent advice to handling temptation is to remove oneself from it.</p>
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And I can go back in history many thousands of years where the predominantly consistent advice to handling temptation is to remove oneself from it.
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<p>Near occasion of sin -- I seem to remember that from the Nuns in my past. :)</p>
<p>Just for giggles, what would your opinion be of someone who went to USMMA with the dream of being a Naval Officer and because they had the opportunity to go to Army Air Assault School for their internship after their Sea Year, decided they wanted to be an Army Infantry Officer instead of a SWO? Or the Mid who spent part of her Sea Year on Army large watercraft and liked the way the Army manages ships rather than the Navy and has decided to take a commission as an Army Warrant Officer rather than a Navy Line Officer. Both are totally committed to serving their country on active duty, but in the Army not the Navy.</p>
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<p>My statement was ‘handling’ temptation, not handing it.</p>
<p> [quote=Lauddie Lo] Just for giggles, what would your opinion be of someone who went to USMMA with the dream of being a Naval Officer and because they had the opportunity to go to Army Air Assault School for their internship after their Sea Year, decided they wanted to be an Army Infantry Officer instead of a SWO?
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<p>Great question. And I do recognize entrapment in one of it’s many forms.</p>
<p>The sooner a young man or woman recognizes their goals, the sooner they will become focused. The more focus, the more readily they will adapt each particular training evolution to their particular situation. The more focused, the better they will do overall, both academically and professionally. The list goes on. The further a change is from the original goal, the more of this education is lost. With that said, many if not most at USNA change their minds. I went from subs to Marines to Naval Aviation. A very unpleasant sub cruise caused me to change my mind after being accepted into the program. It is one of my problems with this forum, the attempt to inform a candidate of the obvious, that he might not get aviation. I am sure he realizes that and I am most positive that as long as he is able to pursue that goal, the better midshipman he will be.</p>
<p>As far as your example, he will not be as well prepared as he would have been had he stuck with his original choice. However, the chance to do something which he likes better now that he understands both choices will make him a better officer in the long run. USNA Plug: However, had he gone to USNA, he would have developed a better understanding of the Navy, both warts and good things, and his decision, in this case probably to USMC, would have been a more informed one, no matter which he chose.</p>
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<p>Sorry, but it seems to me that if a person want's to serve their country and are lured by the big bucks into the private sector, then they really were not committed to the service of their country in the first place.</p>
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<p>A better choice of academic majors to assist them in their professional career goals.</p>
<p>A better Academic Dept. USNA requires all civilian professors to have a PhD.</p>
<p>A curriculum more attuned to that of training a Naval Officer; Leadership and Ethics courses focused solely on fleet-type situations. Weapons and other professional courses, ten fold to what USMMA offers (8 sem hrs total).</p>
<p>Constant exposure to military organization and active duty Naval officers. Half the faculty is active duty, mostly Navy. All the company officers are active duty officers, with one or two exchange officer exceptions, Naval services. Each company has a senior enlisted to further educate the midshipmen on Naval procedures. They are pretty much constantly exposed to and live all facets of Naval service, 24/7. They are active duty Navy personnel.</p>
<p>This is just a start from off the top of my head. You have given me something to think about.</p>
<p>suzannegra, please see my temptation quote above. However, partially agreeing with you does not necessarily avoid my being irritated.</p>
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I simply feel that the best place to become a Naval Officer, with very few exceptions, if given the opportunity, is USNA.
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<p>Just curious, what would those exceptions be?</p>
<p>I will have to agree with USNA69 on this one. Im sure that he would be saying the same thing had the young lady asked if USAFA, USCGA or USMA would prepare her just as well to be a Naval Officer They will do a good job in the leadership department no doubt, but overall they wont do as good a job as the institution whose every resource is focused on developing officers for a career of naval service. What if her question was reversed.. What if she were asking if the Naval Academy could prepare her just as well to pass a coast guard license exam and sail on a merchant ship.. Im sure all of you would be just as vocal about why KP would do a better job to prepare her than Navy.</p>
<p>I do take issue with some of the things USNA said.. Ive heard all that before from other Naval Officers. They have some big misconceptions about and a simplistic view of the merchant marine. Many of them think were all as rich as rock stars. I only wish that were true. I loved the comment about standing on the pier with a clipboard checking freight.. if only it was that simple.. It shows that USNA69 has no idea about the complexities and challenges of loading out a modern containership, or tanker for that matter and the calculation of GM, hull bending, torsion and sheer stress, draft (air and water) and trim, as well as hazardous cargo segregation, ballast movement and tracking, etc etc.. And thats just the cargo part of the job. </p>
<p>Anyway, cut USNA69 some slack.. </p>
<p>Apples and oranges.. right USNA69?</p>
<p>DD1 Marine transportion specialist and glorified bus driver :)</p>
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It shows that USNA69 has no idea about the complexities and challenges of loading out a modern containership, or tanker for that matter and the calculation of GM, hull bending, torsion and sheer stress, draft (air and water) and trim, as well as hazardous cargo segregation, ballast movement and tracking, etc etc.. And thats just the cargo part of the job.
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<p>I'll agree with that.</p>
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<p>I think we agree completely and the omission of an important step in my scenario perhaps causes one to interpret it differently than what I intended. My scenario was intended that the wannabe Navy officer got lured by the big bucks and went to sea instead. After a couple of years, realizing the sacrifices, realizing the pay commensurate with the amount of work required to earn it, and realizing the sacrifice of family required to maintain this career, goes ashore. It is here, working in some boring shore job for an intermodal company, clipboard in hand, inventorying the loading cargo, where he becomes disillusioned at what might have been. My scenario was intended to compliment the difficulty of a merchant mariners life at sea.</p>
<p>I think you will agree with me that many of your young officers do not realize fully the sacrifices and complexity of a life at sea and family demands dictate a new career ashore. It is at this point that a missed Naval career would suddenly, in their eyes, become very lucrative.</p>
<p>I had absolutely no intention of making light of what you guys do at sea. I would never do it.</p>
<p>I spent three years as CDO attempting to keep a round-bottomed LPH on even keel. I swear that it listed to, what I was pretty sure was a 24 hr sinusoidal wave which no amount of ballasting and moving fuel around would correct. I do appreciate what you guys do. Keeping an aircraft weighted and balanced for 20 years causes me to hope that you guys have some pretty good computer programs.</p>
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<p>Yes, indeed we do!!</p>
<p> [quote=USNA69] It is here, working in some boring shore job for an intermodal company, clipboard in hand, inventorying the loading cargo, where he becomes disillusioned at what might have been.
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<p>Im pretty sure the maritime industry doesnt have a corner on boring jobs or disillusionment.. You know as well as I do that everything a young naval officer does wont be as exciting as launching off a carrier on a bright clear morning strapped to his F-18, afterburners aglow, not being able to resist a barrel roll and then pointing the nose straight up. Hopefully kids that come here looking for guidance will understand that too. ;)</p>
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<p>But it might. This is the place where we part ways. Once a mid signs on the dotted line to drive that container ship around the middle of the ocean, he can rest assured that it will never happen to him.</p>
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But it might. This is the place where we part ways. Once a mid signs on the dotted line to drive that container ship around the middle of the ocean, he can rest assured that it will never happen to him.
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<p>Not necessarily true. I went from "driving that container ship around the middle of the ocean" to an active duty officer in the Navy. If I had the right eyes I might be "launching off a carrier, afterburners aglow", in fact I might still do that depending on which squadron I'm assigned to next year. (unfortunately in the back seat though)</p>
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<p>Flight Surgeon?? or a third career already??? FS, I assume. Congratulations!! Great community. You will love it.</p>
<p>Bullet here (AF WSO). As a guy who has "flown in the back seat" (and in the right seat during my F-111 days many years ago) for the past 20 years, all I have to say is that there is nothing "unfortunate" about it. O.K., so I'm not the guy in front, but man, is my job awesome! And the stories I could tell you; quite a bunch of them about how my front seater and I would not be here today without his "guy in back" preventing something drastic from happening, either from stupidity on "our" part, or from really stupid actions from the "not-so-nice-guys-we're-about-to-punish-for-trying-to-be-not-so-nice-to-us". Yes, the job has it's rewards, and it's something I can look any pilot in the eye and be proud of.</p>
<p>Nothing to be ashamed about, kp2001. You will be doing stuff other guys only dream about.</p>
<p>See, we all can play nice on this thread! Not a single word about "where we can get better leadership training!"</p>
<p>The amount of pride for KP and the Merchant Marine in this discussion is enormous and makes me feel so so so gooooood.</p>
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<p>Haha, I think my family might kill me if I went for a third career. Flight surgery it is :)</p>
<p>Most graduates of USNA do not pursue a 20 or 30 year career in the Navy. Most bail after their 5 year commitment for jobs in the private industry. I wonder why that is? There is even a term for it that escapes me right now. I have even seen posts on this forum from kids that have been accepted to USNA or USMA or USAFA and proclaimed in advance they were out after their commitment. Yes by all means if you have a choice and you want to be a career Navy officer choose USNA. If you are not sure, you cannot beat the experience you will get at Kings Point. It will prepare you for both. You will have a CHOICE. Not a word they hear at USNA very often.</p>
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I believe it's "five and dive"</p>
<p>Thank you Captain. Have you started to miss "riding around in a container ship" yet?</p>