<p>My son, a rising junior, has only four conservatories within universities on his "list" and is overly confident at the moment. While he is an excellent musician (according to professionals, teachers, etc), used to playing with excellent musicians in his high school and music school, I do not know that I share his confidence that he will be admitted to one of these conservatories, because, while he is a very good public performer, he has been known to botch an audition for reasons that even he can't explain. Also, there is no way of knowing the talent pool that year, or the number of players in his area that are needed.</p>
<p>So, the question then. He is also a very strong student, and while there are plenty of "music schools" (UMass and UConn, which are both close, have them, as well as lesser ranked private schools of music in universities), I contend that the level of play and interest of students "might" (although I don't know) be greater at a better school....a Wesleyan or Amherst, for example, than at a UConn. Also, I think that if he is not in a top conservatory, doesn't it make sense to be in a better university (although yes, he does want to be a performance major....)</p>
<p>He has known students who have been really disappointed musically at schools like Syracuse, Vanderbilt and Brandeis, among others, which makes me wonder if he'd be disappointed anywhere but one of his top choices.</p>
<p>What are people's opinions? Better college/university, despite no performance major (with possible better or more dedicated level of play), or School of Music within less competitive university?</p>
<p>Interesting... We went through the same angst with DD. Bottom line with her was that Music Performance was her passion so based on that we set safeties that were respectable music programs/conservatories within "good" universities.</p>
<p>Her logic was that she wanted to spend her time with people who have music for a passion and that environement was most prevalent within dedicated music programs. </p>
<p>The one potential "flaw" in your logic that I see is that the majority of students who get into schools like Amherst and Wesleyan will not be musicians. The majority of those who are musicians, but not performance majors, are playing their instruments for love (which is GREAT!), but when times get "tough," i.e. exam time, term-paper time, etc., their music may suffer. This frustrates the heck out of DD and may frustrate your DS.</p>
<p>If performance is his passion, I'd opt for safeties comprised of "respectable music programs/conservatories." Been stuck in the Midwest for 25 years now so I'm not well-versed in such places in the Conn/Mass area although I've heard through the grapevine that University of Hartford has a good music program. Out here, Lawrence University comes to mind, a fairly competitive academic school with a well-respected conservatory. Was one of DS's safeties and it broke my heart, well really my wallet, when she didn't go with it since they were very generous in their offer...</p>
<p>I think that the teacher is probably the most important piece of your puzzle. It doesn't matter where you are, as long as the teacher is right for you. My D will be attending UMiami's Frost School because she had a lesson with the teacher of her instrument, and it was love at first sight for both of them. Good luck finding the perfect person.</p>
<p>I think a larger university with a strong music performance major is definitely the way to go. Don't get hung up on rankings of various LACs and colleges. They simply do not apply to music. Kids are very strong in music end up in music programs...</p>
<p>Having some safeties is really a good idea. There is an unbelieveable level of stress that comes with auditions and the long wait for acceptances. Having safeties relieves a lot of stress and the auditions for the safety schools are great practices for the more important auditions. There are plenty of safeties for a good musician: NYU, Ithaca College, SUNY Purchase, Hartt, etc. Music performance opportunities at any of these will be much greater than at a more academically selective college.</p>
<p>There's a pretty long way to fall between Curtis and attending an LAC. While you are quite right that the ensembles at, say, Yale, Columbia, and Harvard are often stronger than ensembles at the lowest level of university music schools, you should realize that that is rare. A school must be pretty large and boast a very strong music faculty in order to consistently recruit a large number of students who play music at a very high level as an extra-curricular activity. Edad is right when he says that performance opportunities are greater at NYU, Ithaca, etc than at colleges without music programs. One thing you might do is compile a list of safeties or reasonably safe matches that have BM programs which are easily in your son's reach, but also have academic environments that are interesting and rewarding in and of themselves. NYU is excellent for that; so are Vanderbilt, Lawrence, U of Minnesota, and St. Olaf.</p>
<p>Here's my struggle though...he is so much stronger academically and intellectually than a school like Ithaca or Hartt, for example. He is used to being around very, very bright talented musicians, not just good musicians. Of course, the optimal will be for him to get into one of the schools where academics are also strong, but it seems that people believe the performance opportunities at one of these "safeties" will be better than at an academically stronger LAC, even if the kids aren't as bright?</p>
<p>If he is going to do music performance, then he will have very few academic courses. His "academics" will be largely restricted to music theory, music history, and probably a general writing course and a language.</p>
<p>The choices might be different for someone who was less committed to music or for someone looking for a double degree.</p>
<p>I agree with Edad; focus on the musical items. For example, academically Ithaca isn't the top shelf, but Cornell is. However, music at Ithaca is far superior to Cornell. So you have to ask yourself which of the schools would you son be more happy at? If music is really his passion, he'd be happier at Ithaca. If academics are, then Cornell... </p>
<p>Bottom line at some of the schools listed here, and I only know by experience two of them, Lawrence and Ithaca (forgot that one in my first response, but an excellent suggestion), the music students can choose to be pretty isolotated from the rest of the campus. More importantly, there are multiple, excellent musical opportunities for them at schools such as these. </p>
<p>So what's his passion? This is the question that your family needs to answer.</p>
<p>Another thing I just thought of. Four conservatories is about the correct number of places to apply. After you add one or two safeties, you're up toaround six auditions. How much traveling/lessons/auditions can you expect to do? One of my favorite moments was during a Parents' Meeting at Peabody when the Dean of Admissions asked to see a show of hands of people whose children were auditioning at more than six schools. Believe it or not, there were a substantial number of people with their hands up to which the Dean said, "Do you have jobs?"</p>
<p>Thank you so much for this input. DS ONLY wants performance, and isn't an iota interested in "regular" liberal arts types classes; I, practically thinking, am just looking at the "end" degree, and saying, if he isn't at x,y or z conservatory, isn't the degree from Wesleyan better than the one from Hartt or Ithaca (I have known some not terribly bright kids at both of these schools, but not in as music majors)? But perhaps not, based on what you are all saying. Thank goodness for this board. </p>
<p>So, you all if he has his four, plus a "safety", where he can audition early, that makes sense?</p>
<p>There are reasons to apply to as many music schools as possible: You are not likely to know the number of students for a specific instrument who will be offered admission. We got nowhere trying to find this information in advance. My D wasted one trip and audition because at one school there was only one student offered admission for her instrument. Perhaps it was just a coincidence that the student was in the school's pre-college program. You always have a risk that a specific audition will not go well. Merit awards can vary greatly. Finally each school and each studio head can be different than you expect. </p>
<p>I would agree that 6 or so auditions is a practical limit unless many of the schools are nearby. Prior to auditions, make sure both you and your S discuss the absenses with teachers and HS administrators. Several of the auditions required missing 3 days and many were not on weekends. It can be very valuable to arrange for lessons with the faculty. This is not usually possible during audition times and will require a second trip.</p>
<p>Absolutely. That's exactly what we did. We did five auditions and the safety was arranged to be an audition in late October/early November. We didn't get the results into well into February, but we looked at it as "getting one done early." </p>
<p>This schedule was hectic and nail-biting enough once you add pre-audition visits in the fall of senior year. Some even had pre-pre-audition visits in the spring of junior year.</p>
<p>Good luck!! These are trying times for all involved...</p>
<p>Daughter started out with ten on the short list and wound up doing five live auditions plus one on tape. One thing that helped a lot was Oberlin's early review program. She auditioned there the first week in December and received a decision about two weeks later that let her withdraw applications at several of the original ten. Another nice thing about Oberlin is that they do not restrict the eight or so electives that conservatory students get to take in the college, except to require that they meet the prerequisites.</p>
<p>Admissions to conservatories and top-level music schools is a real crap shoot. Even if he happens to be the best in your state on his instrument, there are no guarantees. Safeties are a good thing and I think fiddlefrog has come up with some interesting ones for you.</p>
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<p>In some cases, my son was able to find this out in advance by contacting admissions offices, teachers, and/or current students. The information really helped him decide on how many places to apply and audition. For example, he was advised to not even apply to Curtis because they had no openings for his instrument, and Juilliard accepted only one incoming freshman for next year. Also, he had been told there were two openings for new students at CIM, but they ended up accepting a transfer student and a grad student. So, among 3 of his top choice schools, only one incoming freshman was selected - not the best odds!</p>
<p>One thing that really helped ease the stress was an early application and early audition (mid January) at Indiana University. IU does rolling admissions for both the university and school of music, so he had an acceptance to the university in November and to the school of music by the end of January. All his other auditions were in Feb and March, so knowing that he already had a place at a top-tier program was a real confidence booster.</p>
<p>One word of warning, though. Since IU is a top-tier music program, it's not a real safety in the true sense. However, the large size of the program and correspondingly greater number of students they can accept, makes it a good option for excellent musicians who may be nervous about the relatively small numbers of students accepted at the major conservatories.</p>
<p>Allmusic, as I said in my first reply to you, there are some good-quality music schools in excellent universities for which the minimum standard for admission isn't too high. These are great safeties, because they are safe bets for admission, they have challenging and stimulating academic environments, and there are very good teachers available. NYU, Vanderbilt, and UNC-Chapel Hill are probably the best in this category. There are excellent musicians at all three, and all are quite prestigious, but the minimum standard for a musician to be accepted is not terribly high.</p>
<p>My son plays classical piano, and both classical and jazz percussion. He is leaning towards majoring in jazz percussion, but will want to continue lessons privately on classical piano, and he is already at quite a high level. This means he needs a setting with strong classical and jazz departments, which precludes a few.</p>
<p>Any more thoughts are most appreciated. Thanks.</p>
<p>University of North Texas has probably the best jazz program in the country, and an excellent piano faculty as well. If your son is awarded even a nominal scholarship, he is eligible for in-state tuition -- which makes UNT a fantastic bargain for the quality of the music program... total cost of attendance (including room and board) under $10k a year.</p>
<p>Allmusic...I'm not familiar with jazz piano programs or teachers. The way my son researched schools was to go to music competitions and camps and ask lots of questions about teachers. Very quickly a few names of the prominent teachers of his instrument emerged...and with them, some schools. He is also seeking a university or dual music conservatory/college program. For his instrument, there are about a dozen. Now he is in the second phase of his research...he's contacting students at most of these schools (some he met at camp...others are friends of friends he met at camp) and he's asking them about the various programs. Finally, he'll go and see for himself...this next year.
For your son, you'll need to make sure that he can study both classical and jazz piano at the school...I would think that there may be two sets of teachers involved...and he might have to be accepted into both studios.<br>
If you have a conservatory near you, you might start by asking them...or by emailing their jazz piano faculty. I'll bet a few programs emerge very quickly. Good luck...I wish I was more help!</p>