Your son is afraid of a boogeyman that doesn’t exist except in the minds of people who have nothing to do with college campuses.
I don’t know how we really convey that to a kid. It’s hard enough to convince some adults on CC who rage about “liberal” schools. Fact is, most colleges (except some that are very uniform, eg, the religious schools,) include plenty of diverse thought, a broad variety of opportunities, ultra-conservative students who voice their beliefs, kids who lead a very faith-based life, all sorts of differences. And while some depts will be competitive, it’s really hard to generalize even that experience.
I’m an Air Force brat, born on a military base, raised on military bases. Married to a Naval Officer (now retired). I’ve lived around the military my whole life. I’ll chime in as follows:
-it’s interesting that the son thinks he is somehow avoiding a super liberal environment by joining the military. The military is made up of a vary diverse population. Because of this the military is very aware and constantly educating on tolerance and acceptance, etc. They expect tolerance of all their members. The military was one of the first large institutions to integrate African Americans into the ranks. There are many other examples of integration of minorities into the military before other large institutions. At the end of the day you want the person who has your back to be wise and trustworthy and you really don’t care if that person is black, Muslim, gay, or a woman.
-If he was accepted to colleges known for being ultra liberal, and that’s not him - then perhaps looking into schools that are a bit more conservative and that have a Corps of Cadets or very large ROTC contingents would be of interest to him (Va. Tech, Texas A&M, Auburn, etc.).
-My husband, who’s intellect never ceases to amaze me, joined the Navy out of HS. This is because he was from an economically depressed area where few went to college. His parents did not have the money to send him and his Dad didn’t want him to go work for the local factory. My husband became a nuke on a submarine - which requires test scoring that would be the equivalent of getting a near perfect math SAT. He did that until the Navy selected him for a special ROTC scholarship and sent him to college as his job. He completed a 5 year engineering degree in 4 years and got his commission as an Officer and went back into submarines.
-I know my husband would say there was value in being enlisted prior to becoming an officer, but I don’t think he would advise a young man in your sons position to follow that path. The recommendation would be to attend a service academy of strong ROTC or cadet program at a university and then enter the military. Perhaps join the reserves in advance of graduation.
-If he does join the marines he better be in excellent condition!
Others here have already addressed the “safe spaces” that sort of “pushback”*.
As for grades and status-obsession, that not only depends on one’s college, department, and students one surrounds oneself with, you’ll unfortunately find such issues in many other areas of life…INCLUDING IN THE MILITARY.
While grades may not be an issue, there’s a great deal of competitiveness and status-obsession within the military. Especially the Marines where there is a strong emphasis on scores in physical fitness, marksmanship(every Marine a rifleman), etc.
Another example of this was my older cousin’s experience in Naval flight training where the dominant mindset among the flight trainees was to graduate as close to the very top as possible so they could not only get bragging rights, but also first choice of assignment to a particular track and aircraft platform.
Those who wanted fighters and attack aircraft had to graduate at the very top whereas those who fell short ended up being assigned to fly the less desirable electronic warfare or transport aircraft.
From that account and those I’ve heard from other Naval aviators, it made perfect sense when a senior commander from Top Gun who served as consultant for the film stated one difference between the film and actual reality was that they didn’t actually have or award a “Top Gun Trophy” for the #1 graduate because with the extreme competitive Type-A personality of most Naval fighter pilots who were already the top 2% of all Navy fighter pilots. The level of competitiveness to get that award if it existed would cause most to take unacceptably high risks to get it.
@Light1012 Please PM me if you would like my son to speak to your son. He is a Marine and recent college graduate. He had talked about being in the military since he was a freshman in high school. He visited West Point and Annapolis as a junior and decided he wanted to go the more traditional college route first. During his senior year of college he began the process of OCS for the Marines. Despite being in the best shape of his life, those darn pull-ups prevented him from immediately qualifying for Marine OCS so he decided last Feb to do Enlisted Marine to give him more options. He started boot camp in June (the funny thing is he his boot camp is 10 blocks from our house and I could see them training every day when I drove from my house- we actually talked to him more in boot camp than when he was in college). He finished his MOS at the end of January so his experience is very recent and could be beneficial to your son.
I do not think we can take the musings of an 18 yr old as written in stone. He is discontent. He is tired of his academic rat race. He is grasping at straws. He is struggling.
I think to take his every word and every argument at face value and try to dissect it is a mistake. It is a waste of time and energy and that energy needs to be directed forward.
While true, the military didn’t do it on its own accord. It was implemented by Harry S. Truman’s executive order 9981 in 1948.
Even then, it took some time and there was some resistance including from the then Secretary of the Army Kenneth Claiborne Royall who was forced to resign for refusing to desegregate the Army for a year after that executive order was passed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_9981
Also, despite best efforts by many subsequent civilian and military leaders to impart an attitude of greater tolerance since 1948, there’s still issues with discriminatory treatment even as recently as ~20 years ago:
http://www.nytimes.com/1992/11/20/us/marines-find-racial-disparity-in-officer-programs.html
Remembered that case was all over the news during my early HS years.
And more recent as it was only a few years since Gays and Lesbians could serve openly without the fear of being discharged for their sexual orientation.
It sounds like the kid is totally freaking out about the impending reality of college. Totally irrational, and totally legit to have those feelings, in my opinion.
Probably the best advice I would give is to make sure that the reality and hamster wheel he thinks he wants, IS really what he wants. It sounds like he has a romanticized version of the military playing a siren song in his head, because the WAY he wants to do the military is irrational given his abilities. If he really wanted to serve, it would be reflected in the way he would want to use his abilities to best serve his nation. I think that element really needs to be there.
The other best advice I would give is to tell him to unplug immediately from all the social media-I start to hear these rants from my kids when they’ve been on Tumblr too much. I make them dial it back to kittens and unicorns or make them shut it off completely for a while (because they’re minors and I still can) and I find that their equilibrium about what is “real” tends to return once they do.
I for one would be terrified if my son made a similar decision. The US seems constantly at war somewhere. Odds are, your enlisted child could end up in a war zone - and come home in a box, as they used to say. I’d be shocked, worried, panicked. So OP many of us would also be looking for advice if we were in your place. Hang in there. We moms understand your anxiety.
One of S2’s friends did a year and a half at a school mentioned here often, then did five years as an enlisted Marine. Served two tours in Iraq. Headed to another school mentioned often here as a 26 yo and graduated with honors and is doing very well for himself.
S2’s friends who are doing the very things S2 would give teeth and body parts to do all did ROTC or service academies. S2 considered military academies and decided not to go that route. DH and I thought at the time (and still do) it would have been far easier to get to his chosen path if he had done so, but we also understand why the military may not necessarily be a good fit for him.
One of my nieces enlisted in the NG/Reserves straight out of HS. Did a year of full-time basic plus specialized training and then went to college (at one of the state schools in this country with a heavily military focus). She did ROTC for three years, decided not to go that route, but has re-upped for another six year stint in the reserves. (She is now a sergeant, which is a darned handy credential to have when you are a middle school band director! :)) She has never been called for deployment. Her fiance, who attended the same school, will be commissioned this spring after a year overseas for intensive language study, and will go directly into his hard-to-get field.
I’ve mentioned it before, but my high-stats oldest (high school junior) has on purpose not included pressure-cooker top-20-type schools on her list, but has rather ended up with #60±20ish schools (and some a chunk lower than that). She did this on her own, pointedly ignoring USNWR-style lists and instead poking around to figure out what she could learn about campus cultures.
I’m happy with this. More students should figure out what their own needs are and base their decisions off of that, IMO.
It sounds like your son could do with a similar poke-around about the colleges he was accepted at (IIRC he has been, yes?), and figure out which ones fit his perceived needs best. And hey—that could totally be a part of researching their ROTC programs, so two birds, one stone, you know?
Bonus: In doing so he may well learn by himself that, as others have already pointed out, the whole “safe spaces” thing is nearly always media hype.
Just chiming in as a follow-up to my first post: I wouldn’t actually advocate ANYONE join the military. I say this BECAUSE I come from a military family and I’ve seen what it can do to people and their families. I know only too well what it’s like to lose a loved one to “war.”
But I just had an issue with the “throwing away his life” part of it.
^I know Romani, it’s hard because we have been on multiple sides. There is no side quite like that of a parent, so one has to allow that. To me, the important thing for OP is to make sure S is choosing a path for valid reasons and not for some reason or ideology that doesn’t comport with reality. It really seems like it would be better to get a degree first and then join the Marines, rather than signing up to potentially be cannon fodder. Why not use your value to it’s best advantage? If, OTOH, the op’s S is a ranting sexist, anti-semitic, racist, homophobe, then perhaps a stint in the Marines will fix what ails him, because that does not seem to be in keeping with what our forces are right now.
To the OP, he is 18 let him enlist if he would like, it is his choice. It’s an honorable profession and after 4-6 years he can pursue anything he wants. Clearly the OP thinks enlisting in the Marines is “throwing his life away” no matter how much she back tracks she can’t take that one back. I would say she just wants to say my son attends this Ivy rather than he is in Marine in basic training at Parris Island. Plenty of enlisted men and women go on to college after serving in the Military.
@romanigypsyeyes , I would be interested to know who you suggest fight for this country if you do not think anyone should join the military. I also come from a military family with multiple wars under it’s belt and have had family friends killed both in training and in combat. And while each time its tragic I am thankful we people like them and the OP’s son who are willing to serve in the military. Just my 2 cents.
@2017girl you’re barking up the wrong tree. I lost my BIL to the military and every single male in my mother’s family has served. My spouse’s best friend, a man who should’ve been his man of honor at our wedding, couldn’t come to our wedding because he was in the Middle East on his 4th deployment.
I am grateful to (almost- there will always be exceptions) every single woman and man who has put on the uniform. But that does NOT mean I advocate going into the military. I do not advocate for living that life. It’s a crappy life (IME) especially to be a military brat, a military spouse, and so on.
You can respect, admire, and be grateful for those who serve and still never advocate that someone choose that path.
I was one of the first people to comment on this thread and I staunchly defended the OP’s son’s decision. I can defend his decision and not openly advocate for him to choose that path. There is a distinction and it’s not a minor one.
Some people have this desire to serve and to do something out of the ordinary, but that does not mean it will be one’s entire life.
I know several grads who did military service (Marines and Navy Seals) right after college. And after fulfilling their military requirement (whatever that was) they went on to these grad schools:
Harvad Law
Harvard Business
Stanford Business
Columbia Med and Business (same person)
Yale Law
and a few other top 5 grad schools
For the most opportunities and options, it is wiser to go to college first, then do the military if one wants because the options are far and wide if the military turns out not to be something one wants to do as a career.
I do not advocate for living that life. It’s a crappy life (IME) especially to be a military brat, a military spouse, and so on.>>
I know very few military children or spouses who would say it’s a crappy life, my own family included.
It can be tough depending on the rank and the work one does. It’s not always easy to get the specialization one wants. Even living conditions can be radically different, depending on rank.
In the first part of this thread, nearly every poster agreed OP’s son should speak with people in the service about the reality and whether college first will be more ‘fulfilling’ and productive toward his goals, clarify what he really wants.
And OP and her son are talking. I think that’s missed by just reading the first page or two.
Spouse of career military physician, very high ranking, with over 20 years active duty service. He is still active duty. He has had a few deployments, Iraq and Afghanistan, specifically. As a family we have had a great life. Life as an officer is much, much, different from life as an enlisted Marine.
Feel free to P.M. me.
There is absolutely no evidence to support this.
Family friends. Right. Safe to assume that none of them have been YOUR CHILD?