Looking for advice regarding son's strange decisions

Parents Forum
101

This was something everyone I knew who served made a point to emphasize.

Some, especially those who served in the enlisted ranks or were mustangs(officers who came from the enlisted ranks without any/much break in military career path) tended to urge those of us who had higher-ed educational opportunities from the outset to attend college first and then join as officers.

However, their main reasoning wasn’t due to the perks of higher rank. Rather, they all emphasized their feeling that those demonstrating high academic/intellectual acumen to the point of being admitted to colleges…especially respectable/elite ones like the FSAs or Ivy/peer elites can contribute far more with their abilities and skillset potential as officers than enlisting straight out of HS.

Several were also concerned about socialization issues of someone closer to the right side of the academic curve due to their own experiences and observations in the enlisted ranks…especially the brothers who were 20+ year career Marines with stints as drill sergeants at Parris Island before retiring.

Saw one of them lecturing an older kid who received a full NROTC scholarship to a respectable college who was eager to enlist in the Marines straight out of HS that given the great academic potential he demonstrated by earning admission and that NROTC scholarship, he’d be “holding out on the Marines and his country” if he enlisted straight away rather than going to RPI on the NROTC scholarship as a Marine option cadet and joining as a Marine officer as he can make a far greater contribution to the corps and the country.

Also, his brother was the father of an elementary school classmate who was obsessed about doing all he could to prepare his son to gain admission to and excel at Annapolis so he can commission as a Marine officer upon graduation. It was clear he wasn’t going to approve of his son enlisting straight out of HS despite the fact he did in a sense right before the Korean War*.

  • He actually dropped out of HS ~9th-10th grade because as the oldest brother in the family with lower academic performance than his younger siblings, his working-class Puerto Rican/Cuban parents needed him to start working to help financially support the family and to keep the younger more academically higher achieving siblings in school. Once he was 18, he enlisted as that was the best option for him careerwise considering the financial and educational constraints he was faced with.
102

To give some perspective, because humans are terrible at assessing risk:

Last year 5,864 kids between the ages of 15-20 were killed in car accidents in the US.

The TOTAL number of US military killed in Afghanistan from 2001 to the present is 2,229.

While neither of my daughters has any interest in joining the military, I would not be afraid for them if they did. It’s statistically safer for them to do that than to get in their car each day to drive to school.

103

@MotherOfDragons #101: I’m calling a foul (or at least traveling) here. If you’re assessing risk, you need to not compare raw numbers, you have to compare the population at risk. If you do that (and there are a number of different ways of doing so), the risk from military service is going to jump up precipitously.

(Not to mention that we need to include not just death, but permanent injuries of various sorts. The math gets very complicated very quickly. Any actuaries here amongst us?)

104

^Been watching March Madness, I assume. :slight_smile:

105

@MotherOfDragons your argument is analogous to “thousands of kids get killed in regular old cars driving on regular old roads every year. Only a couple race car drivers get killed every year. Therefore it is much safer to be a race car driver than to drive on regular roads”.

106

So, 1,400,000 active personnel, 1,100,000 reserve. 22 deaths of US soldiers in 2015.

13.2 million drivers aged 15-20 on the road last year. 5,864 died.

Those are the numbers. I’m sure somebody better at math than I am can come up with a percentage.

107

^More complicated than that.

108

Some of the comments against service in the last couple page are complaints that relate to a career in the military. The challenges of a career are quite different than one enlistment or the initial obligation to serve after ROTC or service academy. I know many people who choose to leave after their initial obligation yet are glad they served both for the experience and service to country.

There is no need for OP’s son to worry about career vs a 4-5 year commitment. And for those who choose to stay for a career, the difficulties are well known and everyone is free to leave. No one is forcing 20 years. The pension is a big carrot and that has now changed to what I think will be a better system. TSP match with early vesting, bonus at 12 years (or close to that point), and reduced pension at 20.

109

Military brat here. Personally glad that neither of my sons chose this route, but I am thankful for and support those who do. If it makes OP feel any better, one of ds1’s friends had an unsatisfactory college search and decided to enlist. I don’t know the parents well enough to know what they were thinking at the time. Four years later, he had his choice of Ivies and Stanford for undergrad. You just never know …

110

@Consolation,

“Family friends. Right. Safe to assume that none of them have been YOUR CHILD?”

Of course they were not my children, that is why I said family friends. So your SAFE.

111

Agree with man…try to discuss ROTC or going to college and joining the Marines as an officer.

112

I haven’t read the entire thread, but Im wondering if the parents have encouraged their son to major in a particular area that he’s not really interested in. I wonder if he sees going to college as another obligation, a chore, something that his parents want. I wonder if he would be more excited for college if he knew he could major in whatever he wants and go where ever he wants. Another thought is that after working so hard in hs he is just simply feeling burnt out and see the military as a way to take a break

113

Sorry, folks- didn’t take time to read most posts. Fellow physician couple H (he is Indian) and I know have a son who chose the Marines over college. Given all of our advanced degrees and training it seemed as though he should have at least done college. But- it was his choice and he has been in the intelligence area as I understand it, now must be over 30. Just because a person can do something, such as go to an elite college, doesn’t mean they need to. I caught the word Asian- parental pressures and fighting stereotypes plus a true desire to be in the military may be at work here. No matter how smart the child we can’t force them to follow the path we want them to. I also see the “burnt out” effect- our gifted son chose no grad school. An average student relative actively chose the Marines out of HS- after four years he was disillusioned with them (although joined the reserves). This path isn’t etched in stone for a lifetime. Getting away may be the motivation to go with intense academics later.

114

Hi,

Just wanted to give you guys an update - we’ve visited a college yesterday and the lecture about “holding out on the military and your country” was indeed given to Son! I had to laugh when I read that comment.

Unfortunately son is still not sure. He said he probably won’t attend the college we’ve been to yesterday. He still talks about enlisting. We talked a lot about the advantages of going to college first, doing ROTC, etc. we’ve all been reading a lot.

I’m getting a better feel of why son wants to do this. He wants to prove himself and show people that he can do more than just debate and math. I understand that but I don’t want to give up on all these opportunities… We’ll see I guess. Thank you all for your feedback - you gave me a lot to think about.

115

@2017girl, come back to me when you have a son and face the prospect of losing him.

116

@Consolation I have a son who is an Infantry officer in the Army, and I am faced with that prospect every day. While he didn’t consider enlisting, his story is somewhat similar to OPs - 3.9 GPA, 34 act, national-level athlete, was a pre-med microbiology major before he realized how much he wanted to be an Army officer.

I am 100% behind his decision. I can’t imagine a career to which he’d be better suited or that would make him as happy as crawling around in the dirt and shooting at things does. Is it dangerous? Absolutely. Does the US Army need intelligent, capable officers? Without a doubt.

He and I have talked about this. If he dies in the line of duty, I’ll be sad beyond words, but that would be the case regardless of “how” he died. But the “why” won’t trouble me at all, because he’s doing something he believes in and wants to do.

117

^jcc thank you for standing up to the usual “you’ll be a hypocrite” charge. However much we may all worry about our kids, it doesn’t mean we are not capable of rational thought applied across the board. I hate when people do that.

118

I know this is going to seem kind of random, but Adam Driver (the actor) was on the Colbert Show the other night and apparently he was a marine before he went to Julliard. I immediately thought of this thread!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVhap6mxjW4

119

skipping to the end to point out … 1) it’s possible he would not get in the Marines 2)maybe it’s just his way to say he does not want to go to college?

120

I joined the military fresh out of high school, and I’m still in (almost 8 years now), so let me give my perspective.

If he’s going to be bone headed about it, then let him make his own mistakes. He’ll realize that maybe he shouldn’t have been so stubborn once he’s being treated like a two year old idiot by his leadership solely for the fact that his rank is between E-1 to E-3. There’s nothing wrong about joining the military, but if you do, you’d best make sure you’re an officer, not enlisted.

Being enlisted in the military sucks. Your son is naive and doesn’t understand that the military basically has a caste system going on with enlisted and officers. He’s going to have people who are only 2-3 years older than him that get treated with more respect, get double his pay and get better facilities and privileges simply because their rank is on their collar instead of their sleeves.

He will find out that even after 4 years of service and promotion to E-5, an O-1 who just graduated from college a few months ago will have authority over him, and while your son is making $40,000 a year, this fresh out of college kid is making $60,000 a year even though said college kid has been in the military for less than a year. Then, when this fresh out of college kid has been in for the same 4 years your son has, he will make between $80,000-90,000 a year, a paycheck which your son will have to attain the highest possible enlisted rank, E-9, and be in the military for over 16 years before he even starts to get into that same ballpark. Then, after 20 years of faithful service, his retirement pay will be about $2800 a month max while the college kid’s retirement pay will be $4000 or more.

I say this from experience because I was that same boneheaded kid that your son was when I graduated high school. If he’s not going to listen to advice, then he needs to learn the hard way. That’s a part of growing up as well. Your son is very unlikely to die while he’s in, so I’d stop worrying about that. This isn’t WWII or Vietnam we’re in. However, it’s very likely that he’s going to get pissed off and frustrated for being paid so little while being treated like an idiot simply because he wears stripes. Also, when he’s been at the computer for two hours clicking through the tenth computer based training that he needs to accomplish.

I think joining the military is a fine idea, but not as enlisted. Don’t enlist. Become an officer. He’s better off doing ROTC at Podunk University and graduating an officer than he is enlisting.