Drinking or not-drinking, it’s totally up to your self. Club activities definitely are good ways to know other students. Some clubs have very committed students that never miss a practice. My kid got a chance staying campus of Washington and Lee, and of Richmond before putting down deposit. He picked Richmond because he thought Richmond has better food. The bottom line is that you need to visit campus to feel if fits.
@homerdog
“I guess I don’t understand what people mean by “work hard, play hard”. I hear that term used a lot. Does it mean bright kids who still find time to drink at big parties? Does it mean that type of school has a larger percentage of super social/outgoing kids?”
My sense is that “work hard, play hard” varies by campus, but in general means an intense academic, pressure-cooker experience in which steam is released on weekends/specified party times.
For what it is worth, I don’t think Richmond is like that. Of course, I live in the neighborhood of a large, D1 sports driven state school, and my children and I have seen adults of all ages tailgating with alcohol starting in the morning for noon games. I also went to Duke for my graduate work, and lived in Chapel Hill during that time, so that is my basis for comparison as well.
Just because there are parties doesn’t mean it’s a “party school.” I visit that area of Richmond several times a year, and know undergrads there. It’s much more low key than what I consider a “party school,” but that doesn’t mean it’s a fit for your child.
I would second @katespeare’s comment that I don’t believe Richmond is really a “party school”. I have friends at several other colleges in VA that I would consider being possible party schools. My roommate and I have about the same GPA (3.8 range), both STEM majors, both heavily involved on campus. She does not drink or party at all and I enjoy the lodges/parties around campus. We get along great and both are very involved in our academics here. I encourage you to at least look at UR. Parties happen at most college schools. Also, the lodges are on Old/New Frat Row, on the very outskirt of campus. It’s not like you’re smack dab in the middle of a bunch of intoxicated people every night. The police presence is also great on campus. I am more than satisfied with my experience at UR. I wish I could do it all over again and never have to graduate. The professors here are amazing, the people will do anything to help you, the academics will prepare you for whatever career you envision, great activities, safe/beautiful campus, a great area outside of school to venture around, etc. I could go on and on.
We’ve looked seriously at Grinnell and Richmond. Both are great, for the right kid. I think you would have to visit. For my kids, Grinnell was too small and I (parent) had huge reservations about what I heard about drug culture there.
I would not trust very much what friends without kids there say about any school unless I knew they had looked at it seriously.
@homerdog, I never addressed your real question about Richmond. My impression is exclusively from reading reviews and reading on this forum, but my impression is that Richmond is more of a party school than Carleton at least. I do remember hearing about drugs at Grinnell. I have the impression of it being an intellectual study body that includes a good number of pot smokers, but I’m really just repeating things I’ve heard on here.
For what it’s worth, I know of three people who have kids at Richmond. I haven’t met any of the kids, but they all sound like pretty serious kids.
I wasn’t trying to be rude in my last post. I just think it’s going to be hard to tell with most of the schools in the middle. Your son obviously wouldn’t want to be at Tulane, Providence, or Lehigh. Probably way too much partying for him at those schools, but most schools that aren’t known as party schools will probably still have a lot of drinking going on. I think you have to go pretty far to the other end of the spectrum to really get away from drinking as a favorite stress reliever for a good chunk of the kids.
If he really wants to avoid it, I’d look at the kind of nerdy schools, which I guess is what you’re already doing.
The problem is that the really nerdy schools are going to be pretty difficult to get into. You didn’t mention his stats, but maybe that’s not a problem.
My daughter thought the kids at Lafayette seemed like non-partiers, but in reviews it seems like there’s a decent amount of partying going on there. Haverford seems like it would be pretty nerdy to me and I doubt there’s a whole lot of drinking going on. Correction, just checked the review site and it looks like there’s drinking going on there too. B+ for party scene - not that you can put too much stock in the review sites, but that still surprises me. It’s funny, there’s something called Nerd House at Haverford. I think Haverford is one you should seriously look at.
Here’s a description of Nerd House from the Haverford web site. I think it’s pretty cool that they own the word nerd and celebrate it. It took me until my thirties to own that word and be proud of the nerdy sides of my personality.
“Nerd House aims to meet unaddressed social needs of members of our community by embracing nerdiness throughout Haverford. To accomplish this, Nerd House hosts themed weekly events, organizes special activities, and freely provides community members with a friendly, supportive, substance-free, and nerdy environment. We intentionally leave the term nerd undefined, as it encompasses a wide and growing range of interests and personalities, all of which we want to accommodate.”
Thanks @WalknOnEggShells
S19 has 1540 SAT (one sitting of Aug junior year, 740 EW 800M). 3.8UW 4.7W GPA. Hopefully NMF with a 221 but that was the cut off last year and we don’t know if it will stick. He’s a three season athlete (XC/winter track/track) and an artist. He’s just a good kid. Teachers this year told us he seems years older than fellow students and he brings his A game to class every day. And we are considering Haverford for sure. 
Wow, those are great stats @homerdog. He should have lots of great options. I think Haverford is great. I really like Kenyon too, but couldn’t get my daughter interested. Davidson, too. I couldn’t even get her to look at it.
Is Lafayette on his list? We were only there for a short while, but I was very impressed with the kids. They seemed mature and pretty serious. My daughter likes all of the party schools, even though she isn’t much of a drinker. She thought Lafayette was too serious for her, but I think the tour guide freaked her out. Your son could probably get money from Lafayette too.
What about Wesleyan? That seems artsy and nerdy, and very selective. I have no idea how much partying is going on, but it seems like it might be a fit.
@WalknOnEggShells I sent you a PM
There’s an active party/concert scene at Wesleyan, but, it’s widely dispersed among different groups on campus; plenty of people choose low-key activities like pot-luck dinners, theater and dance performances and Netflix on the weekend.
@WalknOnEggShells we took Wesleyan off the list after 8 kids were hospitalized a few years ago because of ecstasy. I think the OP has made up his/her mind about Richmond. However on our visit i found Richmond a lovely school with no hint of party school. One factor is greek life. You may not realize @homerdog but we were told the greek influence is limited because they dont have dining. All students eat in the same dining halls. We were so impressed by the inclusivity shown during passover when there was a huge station with food jewish kids could eat. The admissions process was very impressive. The arts and international studies programs are great. We were really impressed.
You may want to look at William & Mary. Although a state school, has that LAC feel. Very intellectually driven student body. Small, classes, undergraduate focus, lots of traditions, etc.From what we could tell, a very low key, artsy vibe. Not a work hard / play hard environment. I’m sure they do their share of partying as most schools do but it is likely toned down. Not a big sports environment. Ironically, my S decided to go elsewhere because he thought it was too low key.
@rickle1 Seeing W&M on our trip. Already booked the tour and class visit. So, we will see Davidson and W&M for sure. I think I’ve decided against visiting Richmond. It was maybe on the list for the wrong reasons and it really doesn’t match the rest of his list in terms of vibe with business school and the leadership school being such a big part of the college. We are looking again at Wes. We are in the Midwest and it’s super tricky to get a real feel for each of the LACs in the Northeast but I’ve been calling friends in New York and they’ve been helping. (One of them is the person who first told us that Richmond is a “party” school.)
I still think I wasn’t really asking the right question initially. Maybe it wasn’t the drinking part that I was overly concerned about. It was the pre-professional bent versus an intellectual bent. I don’t know why I was equating partiers with pre-professional students. (Maybe it was just my NY friend’s voice in my ear.) He’s not interested in a Wall Street job. He’s a curious kid who wants to meet other kids like him.
I was originally considering it because its good weather, location close to a city, and S19’s chance of being a big fish in a small pond in one of the liberal arts majors, but he has other options and his list is long so I think it might fall off.
@homerdog, That is good info and hopefully this helps you. First, I think Richmond is a very good school in a beautiful setting. Richmond is somewhat unique as it is listed in top business schools and top LACs by various ranking services (which is hard to find). My S applied and was accepted to Richmond, William & Mary, Lehigh, and Wake Forest (among other schools). All very different feels. For us, the similarities were: Great business schools, small student body / class size/ intimate professor & student relationship, undergrad focus, residential (virtually everyone living on campus). Understand we were comparing to large state Us so size is relative (Most LACs will be smaller than all of these).
The feel of each school was very different. My S chose Wake Forest for the reasons above AND the right feel for him: big time, exciting college sports in the ACC, school spirit, etc. (Kind of that big school feel in an intimate setting). Parties available if you want them, Greek life is big but not overwhelming, etc. I’d call it “Intellectual and Social”. Richmond is, I think, a smaller version of that (3k kids instead of 5k kids). My S thought it wasn’t “loud enough” for what it’s worth (and he’s not a loud kid). William & Mary was the wrong vibe for him (as much as my wife and I wanted him to love it, he just didn’t and I respect that). It is quiet, reserved (I hate saying nerdy), laid back. He thought they were very friendly and welcoming but not really that interested in his thing. He loves sports and getting wrapped up in the fandom. He spoke with a friend of ours who has a graduating senior there and she loved it but was exactly opposite of him. More likely to be found reading for enjoyment under a tree in the sunken gardens than yelling and screaming at a football game. Lehigh was similar to Wake in many regards but had a more intense feel to it (which he wasn’t crazy about )
From how you describe your situation, William & Mary might be quite interesting. It’s an amazing place and the traditions will blow you away. Good luck.
@curiouspup, I think I remember hearing that about Wesleyan. It’s surprising to me that such a serious school would have a lot of kids doing drugs, but I guess there are a lot of creative kids there and sometimes the creative types are more likely to experiment with those types of drugs.
@curiouspup Every year thousands of college kids die from alcohol abuse, hundreds of thousands more get injured and nearly 100,000 report alcohol related sexual assaul. ( https://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/collegefactsheet/Collegefactsheet.pdf ) If you are a concerned parent the odds of your kid getting hurt or dying from alcohol massively exceeds the risk of drug death. Of course the media reports the drug deaths and makes it a big deal, but alcohol is a much greater risk.
I can’t speak to Richmond as we never looked into it. But from what you say, your child might want to take a look at Case Western. There are frats but their focus is more community service than alcohol. My D is a life of the mind, intellectual type who has no interest in parties. She was very impressed with the seriousness of the students at CWRU and while more pre-professional than most LACs, it was not so over the top for her to reject it. Another school edged it out but it was under consideration until the very end.
She ended up not applying to Grinnell due to concerns about partying there. I do think Grinnell has begun attempting to shift the culture. But when I asked the AO at a college fair to speak to me candidly about this a couple of years ago, she said that it’s a “work hard, play hard” environment and that admin looks the other way with respect to drugs and alcohol. IIRC, some dorms had a reputation for being more party oriented than others. So if your son ends up there, I would pay attention to housing. Check old threads here for details. Special interest housing often channels kids towards like-minded peers for whom alcohol is not the top choice. Substance-free is another option but not without its issues. Sometimes kids end up there because the parents choose it in a futile attempt to break their kids of the party habit.
I’m not trying to bash Grinnell as compared to other schools of its type. It sounds like a great place! Every school will have its share of alcohol and drug use. Assessing its relative weight on campus is tricky and was one of our concerns as well, so I appreciate the dilemma you now face.
To get back to the original question, as Richmond checks many of your boxes, it might not hurt to apply and your questions might be resolved by a campus visit.
Thanks @Regulus7 Dont want to hijack the thread but we have been talking to DD for years about how to stay safe in a party culture. Many colleges do a good job too. Never go by yourself, dont drink anything thats open glass or handed to you, dont take someone elses pills etc.
I think homedog implies Richmond is not challenged enough to someone like his son that is considered as a smart kid, if no overachiever. That’s the reason she decided to take Richmond off the list. Anyone has any opinions about this? I know Richmond has a lot of research project s beyond classrooms. But how about inside classrooms?
@tingdad Yes, that is a little closer to my concern. I think when I said “party school”, I meant less intellectual curiosity on the part of the students. Kids who are good students but maybe not super serious. Most business majors I know fall into that category. S19 likes to discuss, both in his classes and afterwards with his teachers. His teachers find him highly engaged in all subjects and he’s very curious. When I went to his teacher conferences, his BC Calc teacher, his AP Lang teacher, and his APUSH teacher all said that he’s a standout when it comes to being interested in the subject matter and leading the discussions.
I’ve received quite a few PMs from parents whose kids are also strong students and are not business majors at Richmond. They all make very compelling cases. Richmond is not completely off the radar for us right now. I still don’t think it’s the most perfect match but perhaps the Richmond Scholars program would give him what he needs if he were lucky enough to be invited.
Anyone have any info on how Richmond Scholars works? I see some perks on the website but it doesn’t say much more than the merit award, the priority registration, and special mentoring. If anyone has any more details or knows where I can find them, that would be great.