Looking for Help, Plzzz

Parents Forum
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<p>Dear all parents out there,</p>

<p>I have been long-time lurker on this website for years. I come here for sincere advice and nothing else. I wanted to know if anyone could offer advice concerning a potential transfer. And one of the reasons why I ask is that I have transferred before, which was for good reasons in my opinion. This is my story. I attended Dartmouth College in NH for my freshman year and could not stand the location of the school, being that it was located in a very rural part of the country (I always felt adverse to the location but at the time, it seemed that Dartmouth was the best choice for me). I felt that the social scene entirely revolved around fraternities and drinking, things which were not for me at the time. I just felt socially isolated, even though I had a ton of friends back home and had made some connections with students at Dartmouth. However, I considered most of those relationships short-term ones and nothing of much substance. Applying as a transfer was one of the hardest decisions I made. I only applied to schools that were located in more urban areas. Unfortunately, I did not gain admission to my top choices but was left with some really good schools. At the end, I decided that transferring made sense for me, even though I felt like I was making some sacrifices. I ended up transferring to Northwestern University in IL. At Northwestern, I felt like the campus culture and the location matched me as a person more. Again, I did extremely well academically there as I did at Dartmouth, maintaining close to a 4.0 all three terms there. However, I am from the east coast and there came a time during the year where I realized that I was just so far from home and the fact that one of my family members became ill made this even more clear. I started really asking myself, why on earth I had moved so far from home when I had attended such a great school to begin with. Having these doubts linger in my head definitely affected me in some ways and made me feel a bit guilty being so far from home. As a result, I did apply as a transfer again, and this time around, I actually gained admission to my top two choices all along—Upenn and Columbia. I also got into NYU and got waitlisted at Brown. I come to you guys at this juncture asking for sincere advice. I know my story is quite unusual, being that if I transfer, it would mean that I will have attended three schools in four years. And this makes me a bit nervous. I have asked everyone in sight for their opinions, and it is almost as if I am looking for the “right” answer. But I realize that there is no right answer. My gut tells me that I owe to myself and my family to be closer to home and to be at a school that I have wanted from the beginning. With that said, I am very confident that I can make it work at NU and continue to do well there. I am just wondering, what kind of risks such a transfer would involve. It is very difficult for me to imagine that graduating from an ivy like Penn or Columbia would hinder me in the future, but then again, I am completely a novice in this area—I do not know much. As for my parents, they have expressed their desire for me to be back closer to home. And they personally feel that I would have more opportunities coming from Penn or Columbia than I would have at Northwestern (They were against me transferring from Dartmouth btw). Therefore, I ask you guys for sincere advice and please, do not make the assumption that I am some kind of prestige whore, because I could honestly care less. In fact, I would have considered NYU if Penn and Columbia did not come through. Lastly, from a social standpoint, I am not really concerned about acclimating to a new environment, as I have a bunch of friends already at Penn from high school that I feel more than comfortable with. In addition, perhaps, I am looking at this in the wrong light, but I keep saying if I appeared so instable from an admissions standpoint, then why on earth would Columbia and Penn accept me and why would Brown consider me for a waitlist spot. But, perhaps, graduate schools will think of this in a different light? Is it possible to deduce from this that just as Penn and Columbia understood me well, law schools would understand as well if I wrote some kind of optional essay explaining myself. I guess what I am getting at is that I really want to go to Penn or Columbia next year. In fact, I have researched both schools tremendously and realize that Penn, especially would be a great fit for me. If I can get some type of assurance that going there will not negatively affect me in the future, I am more than prepared to go. Anyways, I am sorry for the long post but I hope someone can really help me here. I plan to be in business/law next year and would like to attend Columbia or Penn Law. Thanks in advance.</p>

<p>Sincerely,
confusedkid</p>

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<p>o btw, i reread my post, I wanted to say that when I said "I could care less," that I meant that I could care less about prestige, not your opinions. Sorry for the confusion!</p>

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<p>confused...you need professional help with your confusion. Even though you are constantly re-disovering that the grass is NOT greener on the other side of the fence, you cannot stop thinking about the possibility. You should get a grip on your ravenous desires--before you end up with six spouses and all kinds of other gluttonous problems.</p>

<p>btw, protest as much as you like, but kids who aren't interested in prestige never mention the word. Never.</p>

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<p>I would also have questions about someone who needed to transfer twice (although don't think it is quite as pathological as Cheers does!). Your reasons seem sound, and perhaps the third time is the charm.</p>

<p>However, I am wondering why, with such successful admission results, you have not yet learned to paragraph! If you are planning to head off to the Ivy League (or even if you stay at NU), organizing your ideas so that they are more readable is a must.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

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<p>I went to 4 different schools for undergrad. Sometimes it does make sense to transfer.</p>

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<p>The only reason why I mentioned the word "prestige" is because one of my friends mentioned that to me and we got into an argument about it.</p>

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<p>wow, you parents, are coming across as harsher than I had anticipated, especially Cheers. However, I thank you guys for your opinions nonetheless. Actually, this was organized into paragraphs when I wrote it on a word processor and then I pasted it into this website late at night and I guess that the structure was lost and I did not see that.</p>

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<p>"confused...you need professional help with your confusion. Even though you are constantly re-disovering that the grass is NOT greener on the other side of the fence, you cannot stop thinking about the possibility. You should get a grip on your ravenous desires--before you end up with six spouses and all kinds of other gluttonous problems."</p>

<p>--I am sorry, but that comment seems a bit out of place given the fact that I stated that I could make it work at NU and be fine with it. I am completely fine with giving up Penn/Columbia and staying at NU. I just wanted some feedback. There is nothing wrong with me at all. I applied to these places during a difficult time for my family--I do not see how I have "pathological problems." And as far as the grass is greener on the other side problem, I actually liked Northwestern a lot more than Dartmouth. Therefore, perhaps the grass is greener on the other side of the fence.</p>

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<p>IMO you have good reasons to transfer, and I don't see any downside. When you get a job, you may move twice in the space of a few years as better opportunities come up. I admire your adventurousness, and ability to follow tour feelings. Many potential employers will see it the same way.</p>

<p>Going to college is not like getting married.... it's more like renting an apartment... it's not like the college is going to pine for you after you're gone.</p>

<p>Go where you want, and go with a clear conscience.</p>

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<p>"You should get a grip on your ravenous desires"</p>

<p>hmm, you make it seem as if I cannot control myself like a person that constantly seeks gratification without concern for the consequences that such seeking brings. In fact, I am most concerned about the risks involved with another transfer even though inside, I feel like I know what the "right" decision is for me. I have never been one to care about trivial things, i.e., the general prestige of a university. And the only reason why I bring this up is that a friend questioned my motive, which was upsetting to me and said that I was only going because I wanted to "better" myself. This couldn't be farther from the truth. In fact, I would say my job prospects look better at NU as an econ major than they do at Penn where I am competing with Wharton students. Anyways, thanks for your time, parents.</p>

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<p>It's not as usual to transfer twice as to transfer once (which is extraordinarily common.) However, it is not pathological, either. Thousands of students attend more than two colleges before they graduate. My brother-in-law went to three, and now makes more money than the rest of the family combined.</p>

<p>I think grad schools are going to look at your academic record far more than your transfer history. As long as you are successful in your classes , that' what will count the most.</p>

<p>From what you say here, I think it would make sense to choose Penn over Columbia, since you know people at Penn. Columbia gets pretty fragmented for upperclasspeople, and it might be harder to meet people there.</p>

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<p>Garland, that is exactly the logic that I used. I do not even think I could graduate on time at Columbia, which makes it hard for me to attend. And as far as grades, I had around a 3.8-3.85 at Dartmouth and close to a 4.0 at Northwestern. I feel that I could have similar success at Penn. As a general question, do I need to submit transcripts each time I apply for a job or do they just ask for a resume? Can anyone answer this question for me?</p>

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<p>Confusedkid:</p>

<p>I did not read through your posts, so I apologize if I'm going over some grounds you've already covered.
Academically, how would a transfer affect you? Would you still be able to fulfill the requirements of your major and the distribution requirements? Would you be able to cultivate good relationships with profs who could write recs for you? Would you be able to take advantage of research opportunities?
Socially, Would you be able to join groups, make new friends...
In terms of visiting family, distance per se is not an issue; it's travel time. </p>

<p>I believe that when you graduate from a college, the college transcript will list not only the courses you've taken but the credits you received from previous colleges. This is something you may want to check with the registrar of your prospective college. You may also have to submit transcripts from previous colleges, but that should not be a problem, just a minor hassle.</p>

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<p>I think that you are right about graduation difficulties for Columbia, as you will still need to complete all the Core requirements (which on top of filling your schedule, would tend to put you in classes with younger students.) At the same time, Columbia discourages students from taking more than four years to graduate. It could get difficult.</p>

<p>Marite's questions are good ones. Go over all your major and general education requirements carefully. This is very important. You need a plan to be sure you can graduate with academic success and on time.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
As a general question, do I need to submit transcripts each time I apply for a job or do they just ask for a resume? Can anyone answer this question for me?

[/quote]

confused, many employers will ask for your transcripts, in addition to a cover letter and resume. Some even ask for SATs (IBs for example).</p>

<p>The trend in HR depts is a more thorough review of credentials since online access is easy. I know my H recently had to provide evidence of his HS diploma even.</p>

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<p>It is possible that some of the other parents used a little hyperbole as they pondered whether seeking change could become a problem for you in the future. Too many job changes in a short period of time can really mess up a resume in the adult world. It is one of the first red flags employers notice, because of what it can say about a prospective employee's ability to commit to an institution or group and be productive within it (socially as well). Certainly, however, nothing you have done up to this point would indicate that this will be a challenge for you (it's just something you might want to be aware of and watch out for).</p>

<p>While transferring twice is not the norm, graduate schools can and will assume that before accepting you Columbia and Penn made sure you were a solid citizen with sound reasons for a move. If necessary, a brief and concise explanation when you apply to the MBA or law degree programs will suffice.</p>

<p>I would make sure you have abundant information about the requirements of both schools so you know exactly how this will impact your graduation date. I also would commit this time that no matter what (barring war on our soil, pestilence, and the like) you will get a degree from this new school. </p>

<p>I do not think transferring will impact you in a negative way. You will be a student who was admitted to and attended three elite universities, and performed well academically at all of them. You can also show through your EC's that at your third and last stop, you became successfully embedded in the school community.</p>

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<ol>
<li><p>As others have said, it's not all that uncommon to transfer more than once. I have a niece who's just about to graduate from Western Washington, and it's the fourth college at which she's been registered. Maybe some interviewer will ask you about it someday, but probably not.</p></li>
<li><p>Pay attention to what people are saying about Columbia. That could be a really expensive option.</p></li>
<li><p>I agree that cheers was a bit harsh, but I understand what she was reacting to. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>First, you seem to be tying yourself in knots and feeling a great deal of guilt and conflict about what is really a very simple question: Do you want to go to Northwestern, Penn, Columbia, or NYU next year? There are plusses and minuses to all of them. (Penn, for example, has fraternities, too. Can you complete the core and a major at Columbia? What are the programs in your intended major?) But you're not addressing those at all; all you're doing is looking in the mirror and feeling bad about something indefinite. You seem to be more worried about what people will think of you than about what's right for you.</p>

<p>Second, you seem to have a history of making decisions you regret fairly quickly for reasons that both (a) should have been obvious the first time around, and (b) are the kinds of things people cope with all the time without so much drama. Plenty of non-drinking, non-frat people have satisfying careers at Dartmouth; my kid goes to college in Chicago and it's not THAT far away (thank you, Southwestern!). So, the story you tell doesn't feel like it makes complete sense.</p>

<p>I also share Allmusic's reaction. If this is how you write normally, my respect for Northwestern and Dartmouth just went down a peg. I assume that you are capable of more logical exposition. But that makes it feel like something is throwing you out of whack here.</p>

<p>In other words, you do come across as a confused kid, and the confusion really isn't about College A vs. College B. </p>

<p>So, my two cents is this: First, make a logical decision based on external factors about which college to attend for the rest of your undergraduate career, and then resolve to stick with it and to deal with any deviation from your expectations. Don't obsess about your motives or worry about what other people will think, just make a good choice (and they're all good, except perhaps for the Columbia core issue). Then, figure out how to start addressing whatever it is that's really bothering you and reducing you to near-incoherence. And then address it.</p>

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<p>My vote is for you to transfer again. If you are not happy with whatever school for whatever reason then it's best to transfer because if you stay it could affect your focus on learning. I think you have a very good reason to transfer considering illness in the family (my brother took a whole year off from Medical school to deal with a family's death).</p>

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<p>JHS - that was seriously a great post.</p>

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<p>First, I apologize, but that was an employer's reaction. I'd shy away from you as an employee, frankly. I'd wonder if you would be hard to please. You ARE hard to please! You hated Dartmouth and now you hate Northwestern--two of the best schools in the world. That has a tinge of 'spoiled beyond belief' to it--no matter which way you slice it--or how you made those decisions. I don't want spoiled employees.</p>

<p>This is the parent's forum and that is a parent's reaction. Luckily you are getting many differing opinions.</p>

<p>Successful people are adaptors. They adapt well to all kinds of different situations--close to the family--far from the family--in a rural town--out of a rural town. They make the best of the opportunity at hand--and that is my message to you. Make the best of where you are. In my opinion, you need to reign in your 'desires' and dissatisfactions--the 'royal' you.</p>

<p>Secondly, I did not use the word pathological. I said you need professional--not CC--help. I am sorry if I have offended you but I stand by my recommendation.</p>