<p>
[quote]
Look at models - they're all very tall, over 5'9. The feminine ideal is tall as well. It applies to both genders.
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</p>
<p>Models sell to women, not to men. Models are tall because of a tall woman's proportions (women seem to dig the ultra long and skinny in other women), not because of their actual height. You think that men actually desire women with model figures over jessica alba's body? The feminine ideal is not tall - somewhere around average.</p>
<p>I agree with Russell, plot93, and se</p>
<p>electric tech - I disagree, because even shorter men (mostly in the 5'6 to 5'8 range) are still taller than most women, so they have the option of shorter/average/slightly tall women. however, short women are basically shorter than everyone, and more "limited" (I know no one is really limited as their are no rules, but this is how it plays out) to short men. "Many girls" are not taller than slightly short guys, just a minority. However, basically everyone is taller than short women. And I agree that the 6ft popsicle stick look of supermodels is not appealing to most men, but the ideal for women is still tall and thin. Someone used Jessica Alba as an example - she is tall and thin. Not to the extreme, like a supermodel, but that is still the desirable look.</p>
<p>I guess it all depends on preference then. I can see how tall men may be considered too tall for short women and vice versa.</p>
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Someone used Jessica Alba as an example - she is tall and thin. Not to the extreme, like a supermodel, but that is still the desirable look.
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Jessica Alba is actually only 5'6" = above average</p>
<p>
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And I agree that the 6ft popsicle stick look of supermodels is not appealing to most men, but the ideal for women is still tall and thin.
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</p>
<p>Chicks say this, but every tall chick that I know (meaning 5'9" or over) wishes that they were shorter.</p>
<p>and short women are not limited to short men. Short women very often date extremely tall men.</p>
<p>you seriously don't have a clue what you're talking about. short men are the most limited when considering height. What does short women being shorter than "basically everyone" have to do with anything? How does that limit them?</p>
<p>The thing with height is that it's basically socially unacceptable for the guy to be shorter than the girl. Short guys are shorter than a significant amount of women. Short girls are shorter than basically all guys. Most guys don't care if a girl is short, even if they're tall. So I don't see where your reasoning is coming from.</p>
<p>Isn't above average the same thing as tall? if jessica alba was 2 inches below average, she would be short...anyway i do get why high fashion models aren't the ideal, especially since they generally have no curves. </p>
<p>russell - if by short guy, you mean like Lakrosse-sized, then I agree, but if you mean like 2-3 inches under average, then i don't, because they're still taller than most women. I guess you're a guy, but most short/average girls I know want to be taller and the taller ones seem to like their size (assuming they're not really tall, like over 5'9. and tall men, or even average men, seem to prefer taller women...someone posted another thread about it a while ago. I guess it is harder for shorter guys when it comes to dating though....they can't wear high heels :)</p>
<p>Here's how I think of it: when you're two inches shorter than average, you're not short yet, and vice-versa. So I don't agree: being two inches below average doesn't make you short already. You have to stick out from the crowd of your respective sex to be considered tall or short; I mean, when you think of a tall guy that stands out from the crowd, you think: he's tall, which isn't the case for someone who is only a mere 2 inches above average. I mean, 5'6" really isn't tall for women, because it still blends in with the female population. By my own definition, being above average in height means you're within average and over the average, but not considered tall yet.</p>
<p>Russell: Hate to burst your bubble, but I'm 5'9" and a girl and don't wish I was shorter. In fact I rather like being tall. I used to hate it when I was younger and taller than most everyone, but now I like being taller than alot of people.</p>
<p>I think that the average white woman is 5'5". 5'6" is not tall for a woman unless she's asian or something.</p>
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[quote]
russell - if by short guy, you mean like Lakrosse-sized, then I agree, but if you mean like 2-3 inches under average, then i don't, because they're still taller than most women. I guess you're a guy, but most short/average girls I know want to be taller and the taller ones seem to like their size (assuming they're not really tall, like over 5'9. and tall men, or even average men, seem to prefer taller women...someone posted another thread about it a while ago. I guess it is harder for shorter guys when it comes to dating though....they can't wear high heels
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</p>
<p>Your argument still makes no sense. Being taller than most women? Considering the aesthetics places on male height, it limits him significantly. There is little aesthetic value placed on female height (by men). It doesn't limit them as much. I guess you didn't bother trying to explain your "short girls are shorter than everyone" logic. Maybe you realized it didn't make any sense.</p>
<p>And that one thread doesn't explain anything. I prefer chicks around 5'5", pretty average. This question has been discussed in actual studies (not just college confidential polls) and the ideal female height is around average. Actually, some of the time, slightly below. But like I said, the influence of female height on attractiveness is small in comparison to male height. Unless you're taller or almost as tall as the guy. Then it matters - a lot. Which is why taller chicks are at a disadvantage.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Russell: Hate to burst your bubble, but I'm 5'9" and a girl and don't wish I was shorter. In fact I rather like being tall. I used to hate it when I was younger and taller than most everyone, but now I like being taller than alot of people.
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</p>
<p>How would that burst my bubble? I said every chick that I know. I don't know you.</p>
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Russell: Hate to burst your bubble, but I'm 5'9" and a girl and don't wish I was shorter.
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You're only one out of many, though. Some tall girls like their height and some wish they were shorter.</p>
<p>electric, by your logic a 5'2 girl and 5'7 guy wouldn't be considered short, which they are. </p>
<p>when I said short girls are shorter than anyone, what's there to explain? I said what I meant, it makes sense - short men are still taller than most women, so I guess are more limited to short/average girls, short women are shorter than everyone and generally date shorter/average guys...I don't get what the big deal is. you guys are acting like short men are severely limited in terms of dating! I guess if the guy is under 5'5, then maybe it's a big deal, but over that I don't see why it should be. but don't you think shorter women (5 ft and under) are sort of "limited" the way shorter guys are?</p>
<p>I don't think shorter women are as limited because it's socially acceptable for the female to be much shorter than the male, but not the other way around. That said, I think for a woman, above average is the ideal. I'm average and want to be slightly taller, maybe 5'6. Men don't seem to want women who are too tall, but they do seem to prefer women who are average to above average, in the 5'4-5'7 range. I suppose shorter men prefer small girls though. So I can see why short women would feel they are stuck with shorter men, although that's not always the case. It's true that short people of both genders get teased and there are some negative attributes, but overall it's tougher for men, dating-wise. I'm average, but my boyfriends are always pretty tall for some reason, like 6 ft and over.</p>
<p>
[quote]
electric, by your logic a 5'2 girl and 5'7 guy wouldn't be considered short, which they are.</p>
<p>when I said short girls are shorter than anyone, what's there to explain? I said what I meant, it makes sense - short men are still taller than most women, so I guess are more limited to short/average girls, short women are shorter than everyone and generally date shorter/average guys...I don't get what the big deal is. you guys are acting like short men are severely limited in terms of dating! I guess if the guy is under 5'5, then maybe it's a big deal, but over that I don't see why it should be. but don't you think shorter women (5 ft and under) are sort of "limited" the way shorter guys are?
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</p>
<p>Well you still have to explain how short women being shorter than everyone limits them, instead of just saying it does.</p>
<p>I've explained how short guys are limited
1) the aesthetics placed on male height (much more significant than for women)
2) the fact that it's socially unacceptable for the guy to be shorter than the woman</p>
<p>There is no reason that a short chick would be limited. They date very tall guys all the time. Guys (in general) don't care if a chick's short, unless she's midget short. But a very short guy is still in a worse position.</p>
<p>molly... good post. that's exactly what it is.</p>
<p>
[quote]
electric, by your logic a 5'2 girl and 5'7 guy wouldn't be considered short, which they are.
[/quote]
Here's my opinion on this:</p>
<p>For women: </p>
<p>Short - below 5'2.5"
Average - 5'2.5"-5'6.5"
Tall - Above 5'6.5"</p>
<p>For men:</p>
<p>Short - below 5'8"
Average - 5'8"-6'0"
Tall - above 6'0"</p>
<p>
[quote]
but don't you think shorter women (5 ft and under) are sort of "limited" the way shorter guys are?
[/quote]
Not necessarily. It's been mentioned before, but men of any height wouldn't mind dating short girls, contrary to what others might think. See, the difference between the sexes is that for guys, they don't mind about how tall the girl is, as long as she is not taller than them. On the other hand, girls are often of the opinion that short guys are too short for them. Many girls want and look for a noticeable height difference.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I've explained how short guys are limited
1) the aesthetics placed on male height (much more significant than for women)
2) the fact that it's socially unacceptable for the guy to be shorter than the woman
[/quote]
Another thing I want to point out is that it is also an ego issue for males. Guys never want to be short because it negatively affects their egos. It's simply more beneficial, status-wise, to be taller in general. For short women, opinions vary. Many short girls like being short because it makes them feel feminine and because of the dating advantages too.</p>
<p>I'm sure most guys would prefer to be at least average, making them taller than most women as opposed to only being taller than short and average ones.</p>
<p>russell - i guess they're limited the same way chubby girls and unattractive girls are (although the fat women have it the worst, I think) - they're less than the ideal and there's nothing they can do to change that. except fat women technically can lose weight, assuming there's no med problems, but ugly/short/plain looking girls can't really do anything. this is basically the ideal for women, or what we think is the ideal:
above average height, not too tall but not short
slender, but not a stick
big boobs, a C being ideal I guess
pretty face/features</p>
<p>so being short/ugly/fat/big nosed is a limitation, because it detracts from your looks. Not that it's a big deal, few women fit the ideal, but let's be honest, your looks play a big role in who you date. I've already said several times I think short guys have it worse, but short women are kinda limited also, as guys prefer above average chicks, just like we prefer taller men.</p>
<p>^ Being fat or ugly is way worse, in my opinion. No amount of makeup can make up for pencil-thin lips and a huge nose, or generally ugly features. And being "ugly" often has to do with facial symmetry/features which you can't control unless you resort to plastic surgery. </p>
<p>It's true short women can date men of all sizes, as opposed to tall women who are more limited, but think of it this way - women prefer tall men, and tall men generally prefer taller women, or at least above average ones, so short women often get stuck with the little guys. I personally don't care as long as the guy is taller than I am, but all my boyfriend's have always been pretty tall, not that I actively look for huge guys or anything. But I would rather date a short funny guy than a tall boring one. And fat guys are honestly just turn-offs - sorry, but weight can be lost, so go to the gym and put down the kit-kat.</p>
<p>i know many tall men who prefer short women, actually</p>
<p>bummer to the OP!
I personally only choose to associate with people who look northern-european!
haha ***?</p>
<p>What does northern european have anything to do with anything?</p>