Loyola Maryland, Seton Hall, Muhlenberg or Fordham

College Search & Selection
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Our daughter is a senior and has been accepted to these 4 schools. We are from CT and she is interested in the science (biology) or health field. We are looking for some input on selecting from this list of schools. This is our first daughter to go to college and we have 2 more behind her starting college over the next 6 years. So being the first of 3 we are concerned about spending too much on the first daughter and either causing us to go into debt or limiting the selection of schools for our younger daughters because we overspent on the first daughter.

My daughter wants to go to a school in or near a city and where sports are fairly big so she can root for the teams. She doesn’t want a commuter school.

Here are my comments on these schools:

Loyola: She received decent merit aid for this school and it will cost us about $40K per year. This is at the very highest end of the scale for us without having to take out any loans. I really like the school. We went to the accepted students day in February and I was impressed by the academics. It was a snowy day and they actually ended the day early while we were on our tour so we weren’t able to finish it. So my daughter didn’t get a really good feel for the campus. We plan on visiting again.

Seton Hall: She received a very nice merit scholarship and was accepted into the BS/MS physician assistant program. This school will cost $30K a year which is a very comfortable price for us. My daughter is a little hesitant about this school for 2 main reasons, which are actually contradictory. She doesn’t feel the academic reputation of this school is on the same level of other schools (unfortunately I get the feeling her friends/family aren’t as impressed). The other thing is the PA program is supposed to be very difficult where 80% of the admitted students don’t make it through so she is worried she may not make it. So if she goes here for the challenging PA program and doesn’t make it she will end up at a lesser academic school as a non-PA major. She isn’t 100% sure that she wants to be a PA either. The other negative is we understand there are a lot of commuter students here.

Muhlenberg: We haven’t received the final numbers from here but we expect it to be somewhere close to Loyola in cost. I love this school but she isn’t too keen on it. She doesn’t like that its not near a major city. We also got a feeling there were 2 types of students, science majors and performing arts. This doesn’t appeal to her socially. I feel academically this is comparable to Loyola although I think it has a little lower of an academic reputation than Fordham.

Fordham: This is the school she wants to go to. I really don’t know how she got into this school based on her SAT (1220) and GPA (3.4). She loves the location, academic reputation and campus feel. The problem is this will cost $53K per year which is way beyond what we can spend without getting loans. We do not want her to end up having outrageous student loan for a bachelors degree when she can get a degree without having to have any debt. Being 17 years old she has no clue about debt and doesn’t really understand the long term ramifications.

So here we are. I am looking for any input from parents/students that had to make a similar choice and what their decision was. For students or parents of students going to any of these schools, please let us know how its going and if you have any positive or negative comments.

The main questions:

Is going into debt worth it to attend Fordham?

Should we just take Muhlenberg off the list because of the fit or are we missing something that would encourage her to go her?

Should we only focus on money and go with the cheapest option in Seton Hall?

Is Loyola the best compromise?

Thank you for letting me vent and any comments you have.

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Muhlenberg and Fordham are very close peers both more selective than Loyola. Look at the Sat score distribution.

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Your daughter can only borrow the federal student loans on her own ($5,500 freshman year, $6,500 sophomore year, $7,500 junior year, and $7,500 senior year), so be sure to factor that into the decision making process.

@cptofthehouse has written extensively about the bad effects on choices for younger children that resulted from the decision to take on Parent Plus loans for the first child. The advice from that experience can be summed up in these words: don’t do it.

If she is serious about PA, then Seton Hall is the obvious choice. The direct admission is a huge advantage. If she is iffy about PA, she needs to remember that the pre-PA through PA process is challenging wherever a student does it. That Seton Hall appears to have a huge wash-out is simply because they do have direct admit. At other places while there may be a record of the truly pre-PA students who don’t get admitted into PA programs after their bachelor’s degree, no records are kept of the “maybe I’m pre-PA” students who change their minds a lot earlier on.

To help look at the financials objectively, run the numbers here: http://www.finaid.org/calculators/awardletteradvanced.phtml

After you have had the money talk with your daughter, and her list is shortened down a bit more, try paying a visit to the places that remain on her list, and encourage her to learn more about other majors that she is interested in as back-ups in case she does drop the PA program.

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Do either Seton Hall or Loyola.

While Seton Hall is a commuter school in some effect, you can’t beat the PA program. It is very good. Just keep in mind that Seton Hall is not in the greatest area, especially when your daughter might be doing rotations or internships at nearby hospitals.

Fordham and Muhlenberg are too expensive and not worth it especially when she’s thinking about a PA. Did she think about any special 0-6 programs? USciences might be too expensive but there might be some other programs if you looked around. It’s a little late for me to be suggesting that though. :stuck_out_tongue:

Loyola is a nice compromise but definitely visit again.

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Thank you for your input and please keep it coming.

She actually received her merit from Muhlenberg and the cost will be very close to Loyola with a cost of $39K. As @dadstressed suggested, when I did some further review of the SAT scores and selectivity, Muhlenberg is more similar to Fordham than Loyola.

I really want her to consider Muhlenberg seriously. Does anyone have any input on the social aspects of Muhlenberg as far as fine art majors vs science majors?

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Email admissions and get a break-down of majors. I think what you are describing is a stereotype kids read on forums. My nephew went there and then went to law school at Columbia. Take her back spring is a good time to visit and if you havent eaten at the dining hall please do. The food is great and the dining hall is one of the nicest around.

I have been there four times with my two sons and they loved it and I thought it was great. Neither of my boys went but they had it high on the list. I think its one of the best schools around to turn very good students into great ones.

If I recall the return rate after freshman year is nicely over 90%. Good sign.

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For full disclosure, my S went to Fordham and loved it (we got a package from Fordham that made it work for us) , but given the price and fit, I’d say that Loyola should probably the frontrunner. Visit again and see if she thinks it is a school she can be happy at. We looked at a number of Jesuit schools with my S (who found that he liked urban mid-sized universities) and they do have a lot of commonalities.

For Fordham you always try to can call the school and see if there is any way of getting more aid (which is highly unlikely) just so you are sure to leave no stone unturned.

In terms of the other schools, we looked at Muhlenberg with my D and liked it but she didn’t love it (she is at a different LAC). You can always ask her to go to the accepted students day and look at the school again but if it still isn’t what she wants then you need to pass. A LAC in PA has a very different vibe than an urban university. Don’t discount gut feel is part of the equation.

I also think that Seton Hall is a good bit below the others academically so unless she is 100% she wants the PA program and you have other affordable choices, I’d take that off the list.

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@TaylorCT…Your daughter has a lot of great choices. My son recently graduated from Loyola and is doing very well. He graduated from the Honors Program with honors and is working for a Fortune 100 company that wanted 3 years experience for his position. The big thing my son wanted was academic fit, followed by financial fit. We provided him a budget and he chose to graduate debt free with money saved for his graduate education. He had other great full pay choices, but Loyola was right for him. I admit I am partial to the Jesuit schools. He had wonderful study abroad experiences, loved the small classes, and the education he received was top notch.
I would suggest pulling your daughter out of school for a couple days if needed to revisit her top choices one more time. I did this with my son almost five years ago.
Your daughter can succeed at all these schools.
Good luck to you and your daughter with your college decision.

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@TaylorCT… Congratulations to you and your daughter! I can speak to two of your schools, Loyola and Muhlenberg. My oldest was accepted at Loyola and admitted into the Honors College program there. It was a very nice group of students and she was instantly comfortable with them. The problem was with the larger student body. There was a large group of the student body that was more interested in learning red solo cup games then getting prepared for an advanced degree. They also put a student speaker up at an accepted student day who was less then prepared and seemed like a very odd choice to represent the school on this occasion. In the end she decided on a different LAC and never regretted her decision. Youngest went to Muhlenberg and loved the experience. It is a very diverse student body as your daughter noticed but it worth noting that the groups all support each other and respect each others interests. My youngest was not in either group, pre-med or theater, but has good friends in both groups and they all hang out and seem to get along just fine. Allentown is not a major metropolitan area but it does offer concerts, minor league sports, concerts, etc. and the college does a nice job of providing options as well. I suggest narrowing your list to a couple of schools and visiting them during the week. Spend the day. Hang out. Sit in on a class. Talk to everyone, students, staff, professors, employees… and at the end of your visits I am pretty certain it will be clear which school seems the best fit. Best of luck to you!

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Academically, Fordham ~Muhlenberg > Loyola >> Seton Hall.
I would advise against Seton Hall even if the PA program is good - 2/3 of her classes won’t be in that program and quality has been declining sharply (to the point an alumna who loves the school and still donates told me she didn’t want her child to apply.) It’s got a couple signature programs but the academics and peers wouldn’t quite match any of the other schools, by far.
Fordham is too expensive based on what you said.
So, in my view, the choice’s between Muhlenberg and Loyola. See if your daughter can spend an overnight at both, or least visit again during the week, sit in on classes, eat in the cafeteria, read the campus paper to see what students are discussing, etc.

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Thank you for all the great comments. They are very helpful.

We are planning a college visit week. We are going to the accepted student days for Seton Hall, Fordham, Muhlenberg and have another tour at Loyola.

She also got into the Drexel accelerated BS/MS physician assistant program. This is a 5 year program that is pretty intensive. The cost is higher at $44K a year but since its only 5 years there is some savings. I am not sure if this is a good fit since she isn’t 100% sure she wants to be a PA (she is only 17 years old!). My feeling on Drexel is its great location for her since its right in the city but it isn’t a traditional college experience. We initially had decided that it wasn’t a good fit but since we are going to be on the road trip we were going to visit it. If anyone can comment on Drexel we would appreciate it.

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Drexel is a great school in the heart of Philadelphia. The program is very nice and rigorous as well, however if your daughter isn’t very sure if she wants to be a PA, I can see why you’d be hesitant. Is she accepted regularly into Drexel or is she just in at the PA program?

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@TheDidactic I looked at her acceptance letter and she is accepted into the BS/MHS accelerated degree program. She needs to get an overall 3.33 GPA and 3.25 GPA in science courses to automatically move onto the PA program in the 4th year. If she doesn’t make it she can spend her 4th year getting a BS in Health Sciences. She could reapply after getting her BS but it would take longer for her to complete.

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OK thank you for the information. So, on the bright side of things, if she doesn’t make that ~3.3 GPA, she can still stick around Drexel to get her bachelors. Also, I just realized it is a dual degree program so if she doesn’t want to be a PA, she can still do something with that degree. It’s a thought to consider that, if she managed through (even with the high costs), she will be getting two degrees in 5 years. That would be something for you and your family to talk over cost-wise.