<p>pyroza,</p>
<p>You're telling me that the placement of the keyboard, the "feel" of the keyboard, the location and feel of the touchpad, etc. have no meaning in the use of a computer?</p>
<p>There's a lot more to ergonomics than just how an object physically feels, as well. The lack of distractions in the environment one works in has an effect on productivity.</p>
<p>Most, if not all laptops other than netbooks use full size keyboards, so I don't see how placement matters. Most laptop keys also feel the same, and MB keys to me feel worse because they're softer. Same with touch pads, most are right in the middle which is convenient for both hands to use. And if you're sitting at a desk, you're most likely using a mouse anyways.</p>
<p>pyroza,</p>
<p>Compare a low-end HP/Compaq keyboard to a Thinkpad. Huge difference, and there's a reason why so many people love their Thinkpads.</p>
<p>And really, by syaing that you don't like the MB keyboard, you're demonstrating that feel matters! It's fine that you don't like how it feels, but a lot do, and they shouldn't be called silly names for it.</p>
<p>I tend to prefer computers with simple, clean lines. I had a Toshiba that had silly edges and design features, and it was uncomfortable to use. I'm also not some "noob" who doesn't know how to use a computer: I've been using a computer since the days of the IIc, and can do some nifty stuff with command lines. But so what? If someone wants a decent looking computer, it's not stupid: it's utility gained from money spent. </p>
<p>Honestly, I feel like some young (mostly male, slashdotty types) computer users feel like they're more geek-chic because they can use ugly POS computers. Good for them. </p>
<p>
[quote]
Same with touch pads, most are right in the middle which is convenient for both hands to use. And if you're sitting at a desk, you're most likely using a mouse anyways.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yes, but the size of the buttons, the size of the pad, and the tactile feel of the pad all matter. I hate small, unresponsive touchpads. I also prefer to use gestures on a touchpad (one, two, three fingers, etc.), something that is much better supported on a Mac.</p>
<p>I actually like the bounce of the HP keyboards, having an HP laptop myself. Though I'd much rather bang out a paper on my thinkpad because I can hit the keys harder without feeling like I'm breaking something.</p>
<p>"don9992,</p>
<p>Design matters. For one, the physical design philosophy has an effect on the ease of use and how you interact with the machine. Sure, the "prettiness" is secondary, but wanting what you spend money on to not look like a 1970s Ford Crapomatic doesn't make you a poseur.</p>
<p>I know plenty of pretty techy people who are interested in stylishness. Some of us even date. :O"</p>
<p>Please point out the differences in significant design and ergonomic features between Macbooks and any other laptop. The screen opens up and there's a keyboard and some pointing device. That design has been around for about thirty years.</p>
<p>don9992,</p>
<p>This is why I stopped going to Slashdot. ;)</p>
<p>There's nothing "significant." You're correct. However, there are a lot of small differences among different manufacturers that add up. The Macbook, for example, opens without a latch. I really like that, as I've had past laptops have their latches break. I also like slot-loading drives.</p>
<p>vs.</p>
<p>Few things I prefer about the Macbook:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>The big mouse button (and yes, I would prefer two, but in Mac OS it's not a big deal.)</p></li>
<li><p>The lack of recesses around the keyboard and touchpad. I prefer things to be as flush as possible. </p></li>
<li><p>The lack of lights. Why do some of the Wintel notebook manufacturers insist upon putting a gajillion lights? It's distracting.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Those are just a few things. I know, I'm a noob and can't use a computer etc. etc.</p>
<p>(Speaking of design, I actually remember when the first Thinkpad was released. So yes, I know the timeline.)</p>
<p>
[quote]
Please point out the differences in significant design and ergonomic features between Macbooks and any other laptop. The screen opens up and there's a keyboard and some pointing device. That design has been around for about thirty years.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>this won't be specific to Macbooks and other laptops, but keyboard and touchpad feel differ from manufacturer to manufacturer, and sometimes model to model...</p>
<p>for example, i can't stand HPs stupid sticky touchpads. i also can't stand Dell keyboards (they've gotten better though). Thinkpads are completely different, and Macbooks are completely different from that. i also liked my old Acer's touchpad and keyboard, for the record.</p>
<p>you can also go into display quality and physical stability, and vent placement...and some more things i've not thought of.</p>
<p>toxic_waste,</p>
<p>Exactly! I had a Dell that I thought had generally good placement/design, and then I ended up getting a Toshiba for around the same price that had a lot of little things that bugged me in the long run.</p>
<p>I have a few gripes about my MBP, but generally I find it an enjoyable computer to use.</p>
<p>"(Speaking of design, I actually remember when the first Thinkpad was released. So yes, I know the timeline.)"</p>
<p>THINKPAD? Do you also believe that Bill Gates invented the Internet? The first "clamshell" laptop I remember seeing was an HP running DOS about 1983. That was long before anything called "Thinkpad" hit the market.</p>
<p>don9992,</p>
<p>No need to be rude. Actually, the first laptop with the clamshell design was the GrID Compass that NASA contracted. Or it might have been the Gavilian-- I'm not sure about that. If I recall my history correctly, the GrID was first made in 1982.</p>
<p>And no, Bill Gates didn't invent the Internet. Everyone knows that's silly! That was Al Gore! ;)</p>
<p>woah wait i thought it was barack obama...</p>
<p>I keep forgetting that this place isn't like the car forum I frequent. In that one talkin' smack isn't just not frowned upon, it's kind of expected. If you give a straightforward answer there, that's when they think you're offended.</p>
<p>daman11,</p>
<p>No, Barack Obama invented change.</p>
<p>don9992,</p>
<p>Yeah, we're pretty... polite here.</p>
