<p>My older son's best friend told him that it looked like he wrote with his teeth. He too had homework quizes that he consistently failed and corresponding high marks on math exams. Was told he couldn't take AP calculus because he lacked the organizational skills. Unfortunately, these skills have followed him to college. Not so much turning homework in, although I assume that his handwriting is still a problem, but he seems to be having problems making sure that labs and papers that are e-mailed to professors and TA's actually get there. I am hoping that he is finally learning a lesson.</p>
<p>I have a younger son who is much better organized. You can read his handwriting, he takes notes, shows his work, and passes in assignments. Just starting, as a sophomore, to be motivated grade-wise. Is in an honors English class with a lot of high-performing girls and is slightly intimidated by them, which is interesting to watch. Just starting to hold his own with them, which is good for his self-confidence. Does not have the ability of his brother, but may be more successful, in the short term anyway, in school. The oldest still takes forty-minute showers</p>
<p>Hooo boy, what is up with these boys and their homework notebooks? </p>
<p>Two years ago my younger S came home at the holidays, opened his backpack, and dumped a mass of papers into the corner of his bedroom. He insisted he would never need any of this stuff ever again. His father got tired of seeing it there after a few days and demanded that he recycle all those messy papers in his room. Apparently he did so a few more days later, but not until after I had picked up and put aside one big wad of Spanish papers, thinking he might need to review them for his exam (Spanish not being one of his top subjects). Everything was forgotten.</p>
<p>Cut to a couple weeks later, end of semester. S had taken exams but hadn't bothered to look over any notes for Spanish, so I'd forgotten about that pile of papers. I got an urgent email from the school, telling us that he was in danger of receiving a D in Spanish (which would nullify his admission to the HS the next year) unless he could produce his Spanish homework notebook for grading. (!! Apparently they were to keep it all semester and have it graded all at once at the end. No wonder those Spanish papers looked so clean and useful: they hadn't been reviewed or marked at all!) Now, this is a weird approach, I grant you, but there it was. That night, S was in a frantic attempt to re-create every homework assignment from the semester when I produced the wad of papers I'd picked out of the pile for recycling. I don't think he has ever been happier.</p>
<p>Not that this has made him any more careful about homework notebooks since then, unfortunately...</p>
<p>I have picked crucial stuff out of the garbage too. I think it was when my son was in middle school. I had blocked these memories until I read your post!</p>
<p>Oh no, not the LOCKER. No no no, please, PLEASE let's not go there! </p>
<p>I guess in a way, it's just as well that this year my son has chosen to completely ignore his locker. He carries everything with him... including a huge unsorted morass of papers that are assembled sequentially by class... each day. He seems to be able to find his way through it, but I've given up trying.</p>
<p>Y'know, I am really REALLY comforted to read all this. It is SO good not to be all alone in the world, don't you agree?</p>
<p>My older son stopped doing the homework first term last year in AP Physics, since the teacher wasn't collecting or checking it. Towards the middle of the term, however, the teacher decided to check it. My son, who had an 86 test average, wound up with a 72 for the term because he hadn't done any homework. These, of course, were the first term senior grades that went out to colleges.</p>
<p>I work with an engineer, an bright MIT graduate, who somehow made it through MIT (he does admit to taking a few courses more than once) without taking notes in class. I think there is a light at the end of the tunnel for these boys.</p>
<p>MotherofTwo,
My husband is also hyper-organized so yes, it must be something they grow out of...eventually. In any case, my daughter has her moments of mass-disorganization too.</p>
<p>LOL! Don't you love how this thread, entitled "Males favored in admissions?" has devolved into a discussion of unreadable handwriting, wads of unfiled classwork notes, and incomplete homework?</p>
<p>mootmom - My older son carried everything with him in hs as well, including his coat. Don't think he even knew where his locker was. I and my younger son are hyper-organized. My older one told me once that he wanted to marry someone who would keep track of everything for him.</p>
<p>I probably shouldn't post this story, but it is hilarious. My son recently did an internship through his college in a rather prestigious institution where there are occasions that formal dress is required (no more details will be given here!). At my insistence, he purchased his first suit prior to beginning this internship, although he did own a blazer and dress pants since high school. When he came home on break, I asked him to make sure to hang the suit up. The "suit" had magically transformed into the suit jacket and a totally unmatched pair of slacks, but my son had no awareness of this and tried to tell me that this was what he had purchased and "a suit doesn't mean that the pants and jacket match"! The pants were also not his size. I think somehow he and his roommate switched pants and neither one of the realized it. I think he was really embarrassed when I pointed it out, but didn't want to admit it. A few days later, he was showing us some autographed "souvenir" photos of him with a rather important public figure, and suddenly blurted out, "My pants and jacket don't match in these pictures!" He went out and bought another suit over break, which was fortunate, as he will be having summer job interviews where he needs to wear a suit. I think he has learned the lesson of the definition of a suit the hard way!</p>
<p>Motherof2 - LOL!!! I love it when my son continues to insist that I am wrong about something in spite of all evidence to the contrary so this story really hit home with me.</p>
<p>I really think the writing thing can explain some of the difference. My son's writing is virtually illegible. I think that would impact grades, somehow. I pity the poor teachers.</p>
<p>My son, the 11th grader and his sis, 12th, the ones I talked about in the earlier post are virtual opposites of each other and yet she does have some of those male traits and he has some of the more "organized" ones. Her room is a sty, his looks like a military barracks. His locker at school, immaculate, she somehow got the school to give her TWO lockers because she has so much....stuff! And they are a mess, her backpack (S) yes plural are the never-ending bags. She has 1 bag for school books and papers, another for all her swim gear and another for everything that doesn't fit in the other two. And she lugs these around and leaves her bags in various classes throughout the day (swim coach's class), GC's office, wherever because it doesn't FIT IN HER LOCKER!! She must have 3-4 pairs of shoes at school at any given time.</p>
<p>My son has everything lined up in his closet, according to color, underwear stacked in drawers according to likeability and his bed looks like a marine made it every morning. They are both in the top 5-10% of their class, its just him though that is ranked 1/474. He does calculus in the dark, I swear he will go blind and his papers look as if chickens were let loose to rampage his homework. But it is all neatly organized in his binder. Her writing has little flowers and hearts on her i's and t's. She wears pink all the time, and he looks like he works for the local funeral home.</p>
<p>They are 1 year apart and the best of friends. They are however both social butterflies. They will pick classes based on who else is in there and if they will have "fun". That they do have in common. They are both varsity athletes but she has always been in individual sports and he has always been a football player. I think their early exposure to their high pressure sports has helped create who they have become. He is loud where she is quiet, he is more aggressive where she is assertive yet very persistant. And they both know the value of showing up and just finishing.</p>
<p>DD stays in the shower for at least an hour, and DS is done in under 5 minutes. And he takes them cold, while she heats up the whole house, runs a space heater while she is in there. And so it continues.....</p>
<p>Having the 5 of them so close in age, (boys and girls) has been like watching an experiment in gender development right before my eyes!</p>
Cangel - have you been eavesdropping on my S latest 'energy and angst devoted to getting out of things'? He has a half-tuition merit scholarship in hand and still hoping for a free ride, so he feels this "entitles" him to punt on a summer job. H says adamantly no. I say, ok if you propose something valuable to do with your time (so far "hanging out with my friends" is his proposal). He devises new arguments every few days, but so far has spent zero time thinking of what he might do in the way of community service/expanding his horizons...</p>
<p>Ah, boys. The subject matter and debating styles get more sophisticated, but the modus operandi stays the same.</p>
<p>Heidi - I, too, would fight the school re math. If too late for this term, or this year, then next. Our S missed out on the most accelerated path way back in 5th grade. His teacher had recommended him for it, we wanted it, he wanted it, he had always been a math natural, but he didn't do so well on the "test." Based on the test, the middle school GC made the final call. We didn't fight it then (H is still not over it). But eventually he took a summer school course at a local college to catch up so that he could take AP Calculus as a senior. Imagine making those decisions at a 5th grade level? Math clearly seems to be a strength for your S and he should have the opportunity to show that by way of taking the most challenging courses offered. Colleges weigh that heavily in admissions.</p>
<p>Our S missed out on the most accelerated path way back in 5th grade. His teacher had recommended him for it, we wanted it, he wanted it, he had always been a math natural, but he didn't do so well on the "test." Based on the test, the middle school GC made the final call n jmmom
+++++</p>
<p>The only time I had to go to the prinicpal's office waiting room. Refused to leave till he saw me. 5th or 6th grade. P said he was busy. I said: "no problem I have a book to read and will wait till he is finished". </p>
<p>Son's middle school teacher did not recommend him for advanced math. Sort of weak on the homework. He had squeaked by with an "A" in her class. Never a prior "B". When teacher, who didn't like him, returned his final, highest or close to the highest grade in the class, she said: "You got an "A". You are lucky you are smart". </p>
<p>Only time I had to say: "You know, what good is for me to be a lawyer if I can't even protect my own child". They announced later that they had changed their mind and he could take the higher math. Got an "A" at a very competitive middle school next semester. "A"'s in pre and calc, though not really a math enthusiast.</p>
<p>Jmmom, We are having some of the same issues with my daughter, although for different reasons. She pretty much fits the stereotype of girls on this forum. She will graduate in mid-May, and won't be off to college until September. her take on things is this - I'm tired, I'm 17 with no skills, kids from my private school who get fast food jobs/ Walmart jobs come back with horror stories about how they are treated by co-workers (there may be some truth to this, but mostly hype), I've never had a "real" job, I've got a couple of trips planned that I don't want to miss (this is actually fear of having to ask a boss for a week off to make the trip, I remember feeling like that) - the excuses never end. we on the other hand would really like her to make some bucks for spending money, and we don't want her to work the first semester of college, too many other adjustments. She has worked very hard throughout high school, and is a big help around the house. What she doesn't understand is how much of a slug, and how grumpy she will be sitting around the house or 4 solid months - I want her out working!</p>