"Many kids with 2400/36 get rejected every year claim"?

Applying to College
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<p>“yeah, last year a member called christiansoldier got rejected from harvard with like 20 aps and 800 in 10 subjects,let alone 2400/36
but i remember he was half asian(maybe chinese) though,that could be the main reason.” </p>

<p>There are only 24 hours in a day and if anyone thinks Harvard would be especially impressed by a student who has nothing better to do with this time than cram-self-study for his 20th AP test or 10th SAT subject test then they are gravely mistaken. This app found its way to the deny pile long before anyone considered his potential ORM status. Just my speculation based on the limited information above.</p>

<p>On a broader note, this notion that the most selective schools want to see students spending their free time sitting for nearly every conceivable AP test is almost completely backwards. Obviously there are cases where you want to supplement your high school curriculum to show aptitude and interest in academics (especially if your high school has a limited curriculum). But this bubble in AP test self study is going to pop very quickly because it is not going to produce the intended results for most applicants. Almost everyone applying to these schools is intellectually ‘capable’ of piling on the APs. It’s the ones who do something a little more interesting and significant with their time outside of school who usually get an acceptance letter.</p>

<p>As to the OP, in my opinion the 2400s are the quickest to the admit pile in the beginning of the process and the quickest to the deny pile at the end of the process (assuming a strong transcript as well). Meaning that a very solid overall application can move rapidly to the admit pile if it includes an extremely high SAT score. But when things come down to committee debates you do not want the best thing that can be said about your app to be your test scores. </p>

<p>I also think you cannot underestimate the number of B students who ace the SAT (after 4+ attempts in many cases) and then apply to 20 of the most selective schools in the hopes of squeaking in to one of them. I would guess this accounts for a fair number of the denials bandied about by college marketing departments, as these are very unlikely to be accepted at any of the most selective schools.</p>

<p>YZ</p>

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<p>The notion that these kids do it simply to get into Harvard is also likely a false notion. My son, a 3-year high school graduate, took 8 AP exams his sophomore year, a total unheard of at his school. He did sp because he wanted to learn the material (3 of the subjects weren’t taught at his school) and because he took a shot at trying to win a $2000 scholarship competition (he missed by one AP point). While he has no particular desire to go for 8 again, I can imagine that some other kid is doing it because he wants to win the state title for most APs or because he’s in competition with the best and brightest kid in another school or district or elsewhere (perhaps someone he knows from CC). The competition is a game, like being best at Pokemon or Starcraft. I very much doubt that kids this smart really believe it’s the magic ticket into Harvard – although naturally kids of this caliber are usually within the range of applicants that Harvard accepts, so why not try?</p>

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<p>Great thread here. I’m glad someone started this. I’m a senior in HS.
I got into HYPS, Rutgers, and Georgetown. I was rejected from Dartmouth and UMich, and I was waitlisted at Columbia.
Easily, the most important thing is academic strength combined with a rigorous course. I know plenty of students who had only one or the other. The next most important thing is a good test score. For an IVY, they are essential. After that, it’s the ECs, Comm. Service, etc.
I’d say that one thing I got info about was the “radius” issue. While the Ivies have no instate tuition and such, some Adcoms give extra consideration to those who live inside a certain radius. My home fell inside both Columbia’s and Princeton’s radius, so I got just a bit more consideration. The reason for this really weird thing is to bolster the local economy. Especially when it comes to affluent immigrant Asians, education is essential to a neighborhood. If people knew that there was an added advantage to live near a college, more people would live there. The trend is very subtle, and this radius spans multiple states. It’s about miles, not states.
Someone said something about a bar, and I agree. If you hit above the mark for GPA, and SAT, the ECs make all the difference. I would go the extra mile and say they are UNDERVALUED on CC. How are you going to differentiate the top students in the country using just numbers? Subjective categories help differentiate between the candidates.</p>

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<p>“The notion that these kids do it simply to get into Harvard is also likely a false notion.”</p>

<p>If by “these kids” you mean ‘all kids’ then obviously you are correct. I hope you did not infer from my comments that I hold such a notion myself as I don’t. I apologize if I led you to such an inference. I simply opined that the most selective schools are not particularly impressed by the accumulation of excessive ‘trophy’ APs and SAT subject tests (20 APs, 10 SAT IIs for example), and in fact such accumulation can detract from an application. I believe this to be self evident. I also believe you do not have to look very hard on CC to find posters who could benefit from considering such an opinion. </p>

<p>"My son, a 3-year high school graduate, took 8 AP exams his sophomore year, a total unheard of at his school. He did sp because he wanted to learn the material (3 of the subjects weren’t taught at his school) and because he took a shot at trying to win a $2000 scholarship competition (he missed by one AP point). "</p>

<p>8 APs in and of itself is not excessive at all, although it is a lot in one year. If I were advising someone I would recommend they make sure the potential scholarship is mentioned somewhere in the application to ensure that their motivation and intentions weren’t misconstrued. </p>

<p>“I can imagine that some other kid is doing it because he wants to win the state title for most APs or because he’s in competition with the best and brightest kid in another school or district or elsewhere (perhaps someone he knows from CC)”</p>

<p>Perhaps. It is not the impression I get from the countless posts on CC on the subject of APs and SAT IIs which seem to be of the ‘how hard is such and such AP’ or ‘which AP will look best on my application’ variety. But perhaps. </p>

<p>As far as AP test ‘tinkling-contests’ with other students, I have not seem any mention of them on CC and expect they make up an extremely small portion of the AP/SAT II trophy case building population. But I admit I could be missing an entire sub-culture here. Either way, it is not something I would brag about on my college app as it seems like a stretch to argue on the one hand that you are truly interested in the subject matter and on the other hand you are trying to win a ‘who can get the most APs’ bragging rights contest. The pecuniary benefits of a potential scholarship makes a big difference here. There are only 24 hours of the day and schools look very closely at how students spend the limited time they have. You need a good reason to be taking 20 APs and 10 SAT IIs, I’m not sure ‘bragging rights’ fits the bill. </p>

<p>“I very much doubt that kids this smart really believe it’s the magic ticket into Harvard”</p>

<p>I think everyone here is too smart to accuse anyone else of believing in magic tickets. I get the impression that there are many kids out there that think if 10 is good, 20 is better, that’s all. In fact I think it is hard <em>not</em> to get this impression from surfing through the test prep board.</p>

<p>All just my opinion obviously. I apologize if you took my original post as an insult to your son or anyone else, that was not my intention at all.</p>

<p>YZ</p>

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<p>I was in no way insulted. I merely sought to point out that one trait teenagers sometimes have is to try something out to excess. </p>

<p>You could be right that more than a few strivers convince themselves that if X is good, 2X must therefore be better – remarkable, even. Some could be driven by “Tiger parents” who don’t fully understand the evaluation system – there must be plenty of them, because I see a lot of stories of kids who think that going on an “assist the poor helpless natives with my incredible skills” vacation 5000 or more miles from home will get them special recognition.</p>

<p>Sometimes these sorts of things develop because a few kids once used them as a novel way to get in 5-10 years ago and now they have entered the mythology and are being copied by those are driven to find a secret admission door. As with most trends, those who jump aboard in the latter stages (for the wrong reasons – because of the trend rather than the value) lose out.</p>

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Yes–I worry about a giant wave of oboe players.</p>

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<p>At least they’ll be able to entertain the subway crowd for pocket change, should they be unable to find a job after graduation. ;)</p>

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Street musicians can make ridiculous amounts of money. A friend of mine, still in high school, can make $40-60/hour in a big city square during peak hours of the day.</p>

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<p>I might pay an oboe player to stop playing.</p>

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<p>You know, probably someone with the kind of schedule these schools are actually looking for wouldn’t have all that much time to post on CC. Unless, of course, they were oboe players, who get all the breaks, from what I can glean.</p>

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<p>i feel like people claiming to have these high stats gotta be lying. mine aren’t even close and i have no really impressive ec’s and went 3/3 with brown, chicago, and a state school. it’s not the same, but if u had a 2400 you could get into one of hyp or s</p>

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<p>I was rejected from Harvard with a 2390 and 4.00 GPA. I must admit, I was quite confident I would get in. Something students need to have is a solid “safety” school. That applies to ALL STUDENTS. Wether you have a 2.00 GPA and got a 1000 on the SAT, or you have a 4.00 and got a perfect score. Generally, a safety school should have at-least a 25 percent acceptance rate. Realize even such schools might not be safe. Tufts Syndrome is more prevalent than one might think. (Rejecting overqualified students) </p>

<p>I don’t believe there is a single students out there that can confidently expect to get into a top 5 university. The admission rates are dropping every year. I read that there is only an estimated 25 students nationally that could theoretically get into any college in the country. That’s about .0000000000001 percent of the applicants. So, you’re probably not in that minority!</p>

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<p>^ There are no students nationally who could get into any college in the country. Try getting into both Hampden-Sydney and Smith.</p>

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<p>Billy, I hope you go to ND. Because you seem exceptionally thoughtful and intelligent and I think you’ll do well there. At the other schools you listed, I’m afraid you might become bored and unchallenged.</p>

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<p>I think a lot of things people don’t really consider when a high-stat applicant gets denied from HYPSM is geographical disadvantage. I remember reading somewhere on CC that New Jersey inhabitants have trouble getting into schools in the Northeast as a result of their location. Certainly, there is no shortage of kids who apply to Harvard, MIT or Yale that live in Massachusetts; it’s probably a disadvantage because they wish to admit a diverse class. Somebody from Alaska has a huge hook and little regional competition. A 4.0 GPA / 2300 SAT applicant from northern Alaska would have a “different perspective” by virtue of their location, and I would be fairly confident that they would get into one of HYPS if they applied to each.</p>

<p>I also think that people place too much emphasis on getting a perfect SAT score as a means of being entitled to admission. It may be much less common than just a “good” SAT score of 2250, but that score is above median at every school in the country. And aside from perhaps HYP+MIT and Caltech, I’d guess that 2200 would be at or above median too. When your scores are this high already, the difference between a 2300 and 2400 tells little to a top-tier university as to how capable you are of doing the work. Both students will be able to handle the workload. </p>

<p>Admissions staff may get the vibe that the 2400 / 36 students are mindless drones, which is usually an awful misrepresentation. But if one doesn’t actively make sure that essays and EC’s mitigate this preconcieved notion, then it’s an uphill battle. Fighting an uphill battle doesn’t work with schools with a 5% acceptance rate for “normal” RD applicants.</p>

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<p>“Sometimes these sorts of things develop because a few kids once used them as a novel way to get in 5-10 years ago and now they have entered the mythology and are being copied by those are driven to find a secret admission door.”</p>

<p>That’s a great observation. It applies to less exotic activities as well. It’s great to see high school aged kids getting so involved in their local communities for example, no matter what their motivation. There’s been a tremendous increase in the number of these volunteers over the past twenty years. How much of that is the result of the conventional wisdom that it looks good on your college application (or that you need X # of hours to get into the most selective schools)? </p>

<p>Do Adcoms sit around parsing apps for authentic vs unauthentic volunteer activities? It wouldn’t surprise me.</p>

<p>YZ</p>

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<p>This is why I’ll only get AP’s in the things I would like to learn, and not what others want.</p>

<p>Also I wounder what happens to those kids, that take 20 AP’s and get rejected from top schools.</p>

<p>Do they just snap, and run naked in the streets lol</p>

<p>Or like the other said, be a oboe player.</p>

<p>Or do they become security officer at that college and taiz everybody ZZZAAAPPPP MUHAHA (revenge)</p>

<p>It’s still sad though, how people try so hard to get in good colleges, and when rejected feel like a failure.</p>

<p>When there not.</p>

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<p>I had a 2400 and 800’s on all 4 subject tests that I took. But I also had decent extracurriculars with science bowl/olympiad, research, orchestra, and tennis, as well as a couple of national awards, e.g. Siemens finalist, USA Bio/Chem/Phys Olympiad semifinalist, AIME, etc.</p>

<p>The truth is, I don’t think scores really matter that much anymore, and I don’t think it would’ve really made a difference if my scores were lower, above a certain threshold (I’d say 2250+ SATs and 750+ subject tests). Yes, at one point in the past, it was probably a big deal to get perfect scores. Apparently back in 2006, a 2400 getting rejected from elite colleges was significant enough to file a lawsuit over affirmative action and make national headlines. ([Department</a> of Education expands inquiry into Jian Li bias case - The Daily Princetonian](<a href=“http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2008/09/08/21307/]Department”>http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2008/09/08/21307/)). From today’s perspective, such a student being rejected is hardly unexpected. Test scores are just a benchmark. What really matters are your extracurriculars and leadership, and conveying to adcoms how these activities have shaped you as a person in your essays.</p>

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<p>Fibonacci hits the nail on the head here…</p>

<p>"Test scores are just a benchmark. What really matters are your extracurriculars and leadership, and conveying to adcoms how these activities have shaped you as a person in your essays. "</p>

<p>However, it really helps if one of your extra-curricular activities involves qualifying for AIME. :)</p>

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<p>I got into both Harvard and Yale with a fairly sub par score (for those schools at least), and a good friend of mine who had a higher gpa and scored 2370 was rejected by both. There is no formula. Not to mention I wad rejected from brown, Columbia, middlebury, northwestern, and several others.</p>

<p>Sent from my Desire HD using CC App</p>