Thank you…
it’s not my choice I was brought here, and students who are like me , “documented dreamers”, are unable to receive recognition both in the legislative and with academics. hopefully there can be more awareness of the different immigrant varieties in the united states
Here’s the process for FMGs who wish to practice medicine in the US.
earn a MD, MBBS or MD equivalent degree at a medical school that is approved by both the ECFMG and FAIMER
study for, take and score high on the USMLE exams (Step 1, Step 2CK, Step 2CS required. Passing Step 3 is strongly recommended)
get US clinical experience, either by doing visiting rotation in the US. during med school, or by getting a clinical research position in the US post graduation. This is because FMGs need LORs from US physicians who supervised them in clinical situations
register with the ECFMG and become certified for eligibility to enter the US residency match (NRMP)
apply for residency through the ERAS
attend any interviews offered
if you received interviews, submit a rank list to the NRMP
the NRMP will inform you if you’ve matched in mid-March. If you haven’t, you can enter SOAP and Scramble to find an unfilled residency positions and apply for those. you will either be offered a position or you won’t
if you matched, you apply for your work visa. It will be either a J-1 or a H-1B depending on the program. J-1 visas can in some cases be converted to H-1B visas if you agree to work for specific length of time (typically 5+ years) post-residency in a medically underserved area.
I think you are underestimating how long it will take for a green card to be issued- take a read if you’re curious:
it’s not going to be an easy 1-2-3 step for my. my nationality (indian) is basically going to prevent me from receiving a green card for years…
with that in mind, I am alright with going to countries that I can afford and have the right to live in. im scoping my options out and seeing what is going to be the best path for my future.
“documented dreamer” is a commonly used term. why does it have to correspond with my legal status? am I not dreaming to have a future in the United States?
I want to reiterate that it takes a long, long time to receive a green card as an Indian in this country.
My parents and I have been considering the option that I complete all my studies abroad, gain a PR/ citizenship there, and then come to the US as a national of that country (which would make obtaining citizenship way easier).
wow, the process gets more complicated as you go abroad…
it’s looking less and less feasible to stay in the United States. My parents have been recommending countries like australia, canada, and sweden. along those terms. I would be happy to practice medicine in those countries.
My daughter had to go thru a similar process when she moved from the US to Australia after she graduated from her medical residency. There’s lots of paperwork to do and it’s aggravating but it’s not particularly complicated.
But that’s true of anything that involves moving medical training from one country to another.
Generally speaking, it’s easier to remain within a single educational system for medical licensing. Moving between the US and Canada is relatively uncomplicated. Moving within countries of the Commonwealth is relatively uncomplicated. (UK to Australia, for example, is very common.) Moving between EU countries is fairly uncomplicated provided you can meet the language requirements. (Except Switzerland. The Swiss don’t accept physicians trained outside the country.)
If you want to train in an English speaking country–look at Ireland, Australia or South Africa.
hm, but is your daughter a US citizen or permanent resident? it must have made the process easier and not to mention other factors too. I don’t think it’s a fair comparison to compare your daughter and me, as the visa makes a huge difference
My daughter is a US citizen, did her medical training here in the US and moved TO Australia afterwards as a fully trained physician because her husband (then fiance) lived there. She did apply for and get Australian PR status, but that had nothing to do with her medical licensing.
glass half full: if your parents have been qualified for a green card, then it is simply a matter of time. Not saying that it the wait times aren’t excessive- they are! but it will happen. And I do remember the impatience of being 18-20! but it will happen. There are literally millions of your compatriots who would be over the moon to know that it could actually happen.
“Millions may die” is an unhelpful headline. Here is a less sensationalistic source of information- the monthly update from the State department:
RE: the process.
The process for FMGs is not that different than what US med grads go thru.
US med students are required to take and pass USMLE. Step 1, Step 2CK (not Step 2CS currently due to covid) and Step 3.
They are required to have LORs from US supervising physicians. Many US med students even do visiting rotations away from their med school to obtain these letters. They apply for those visiting rotations the same way foreign students do, through VSAS.
US med students apply through ERAS, attend interviews, submit rank lists to NRMP, go thru SOAP and Scramble if they don’t match in the main match.
The only thing FMGs have to do differently in the process is get their ECFMG certification before they apply to ERAS and the Match, and apply for and receive their visas before they start residency. Otherwise the process is identical.
Edited to add:
ECFMG certification just requires proof that applicant has actually graduated (or will graduate within the next 12 months) from a FAIMER approved medical school and has taken & passed the required USMLE exams.
Mostly correct. There are around 12-15 MD and DO school that will accept foreign coursework but only on a case-by-case basis.
Most US med schools require a minimum of 90 credits, including all science pre-reqs, be completed at an accredited US or Canadian college or university.
I have employees in my organization that are in a similar situation so I empathize with OP. You are correct that it may take a long time but the green card will eventually happen. But that’s only for the parents. OP’s clock runs out when she turns 21 if her parents haven’t obtained their green card by then. If she doesn’t get a student or work visa by then she’ll be forced to go back to her country of origin, which she may not really have ties with since she came to the U.S. as a young child.
In any case, @gluson - you have received many suggestions here about alternate paths. I know the challenges you face are disheartening. But try to look for opportunities, even if the path is somewhat different from what you originally intended.
What @WayOutWestMom mentioned is very important to keep in mind. Very few make the journey to med school successfully, because there are so many factors involved beyond your citizenship status.
Once the parents do get their green card, they can then apply for one for her. It is true that ‘adult child over 21’ can be the slowest category to get filled, but it will happen.
We don’t know what sort of connections the OP has with the home country. Dreamers typically have not been back to their country of origin (b/c their illegal status means that getting back into the US is problematic), but a family on a visa could have gone home regularly and kept ties up.
As with so many students, a $25K/pa budget is as big a limiter as the visa issue.
I think that @WayOutWestMom has been helpful in showing the OP a lot about how fraught the path to becoming a practicing physician is in the US, and I especially liked her APRN suggestion. OP can afford the training for that, and can get a student visa for that and could get a fast-tracked EB-3 visa in their own right. The time they would have to spend outside the US waiting for a visa (under 2 years, regardless of nationality, if my nurse contact is right) could be spent working in any number of places- international NGOs would snap them up- building experience.
OP, I am sympathetic. I had a similar experience at a similar age, and I really do remember the raw frustration of feeling that ‘you can’t get there from here’ and the unfairness that other people did not have my obstacles. Good luck.
I’m really not trying to pile on, OP, but I was thinking about your situation last night and just re-read your original ask. I feel that you’re being well…a bit overdramatic…in your later posts. You claim medicine is your “passion” and you’re raging that you’re being prevented from fulfilling your true calling…but TBH, there is nothing in your ECs and CV that screams “medicine or bust” to me.
How do you know you want to be a physician?
What experiences have you had that allowed you to test out that career to see if it suits you?
If you haven’t, then you have no way of knowing if medicine is your “passion” because you’ve had no exposure to medicine as a career.
So, I’m going to recommend to you that you keep an open mind about potential careers until you have more life experience and a chance to see what careers suit you. Then you can map out a path to get you where you want to be in life.
And remember above all else that every pre-med needs a back up plan because there are absolutely zero guarantees when it comes to getting accepted into med school.
As everyone has said, your best option cost-wise is the public university system in NY. You can get a high-quality education at any of these schools.
Admissions in the SUNY system weight GPA and transcript rigor higher than any other factor. It is fine to have some reach schools, but building your list from the top down is never a good idea. Stony Brook and Binghamton are the most competitive SUNY campuses. You can look at the Common Data Set for Binghamton (as you can for any school), to see what the stats of incoming students look like. https://www.binghamton.edu/offices/oir/upload_data/cds_2020_2021.pdf Notably, here’s the high school GPA data on the incoming class a couple years ago:
You can see that only 4% had an unweighted GPA under 3.25.
Could you become one of that small minority? Sure, it’s possible… but bear in mind that if you could remove recruited athletes from those statistics, the outlook for a 3.0 student would look even dimmer. And if you looked only at engineering students, the admitted student stats would be even stronger.
Does this mean you “can’t pursue your passions?” Of course not. Students at every college in America pursue their passions. It’s just that you’re asking about match programs (per your thread title) but then proposing only reach schools. Start by getting to know the possible matches and safeties in the SUNY/CUNY system. Adding reaches to your list is the easy part.
This program might be worth a look: https://www.alfred.edu/academics/undergrad-majors-minors/biomaterials-engineering/ Not all programs at Alfred U are part of the state system, but this one is, because it falls under the NYS College of Ceramics which is a public/private partnership. I don’t know how competitiveness may vary among programs within the university, but overall Alfred would be a solid low-match for your stats.
What schools would be in commuting distance for you? That’s another way to cut costs significantly.
Another way into Bing, if that’s the SUNY you strongly prefer, is to start at SUNY Broome, the nearby community college in Binghamton. Broome has on-campus housing https://www2.sunybroome.edu/housing/ and offers programs that articulate with four-year engineering programs, for example: Engineering Science | SUNY Broome The two campuses are about seven miles apart. You could establish yourself in Binghamton, go to Bing sporting events and such, take Bing classes through open enrollment in the summer, and avail yourself of the transfer support services to make a seamless transition as a junior transfer. That’s just one example - there are a fair number of CC’s in NYS that have housing, and some that are in close proximity to four-year campuses that may interest you.
I don’t know anything really about visas but I do work with lots of nurses who are able to stay in the US on whatever one they have. Some were MDs in their country of origin but were unable to get qualified here and did nurse training instead due to some of their countries having a qualified RN program. An engineer or a nurse would be employable after college and I know there’s a critical shortage of nurses. You would make a living wage in the US in either field. Depending on the nurses experience, region of the US and specialty they can make over $100/hr now with agency work. Hospitals in NJ pay high bonuses for short staffing times. It’s a tough job but being a doctor is no easier.
Before jumping to medical school realities look at what you can do in the next few years. The Caribbean has medical schools but it’s difficult to meet the requirements to practice in the US as a non citizen. It’s likely easier to get into a nursing program with your stats than engineering especially if you start at the community college level. Some of the nurses I work with now got their RN at cc and finished BSN online for a few thousand dollars. That’s clearly not compatible for med school admissions in the US but a couple got into nurse practitioner programs recently.
I think that @aquapt’s sharing of the Binghamton Common Data Set (CDS) was very helpful. Here are the ones on GPA from U. at Buffalo and Stony Brook. U. at Buffalo indicates that it is using a 4.0 scale. There is no indication of this for Stony Brook, however. Even if you use your weighted GPA, assuming that 37-42% of entering students don’t have a 4.0, you can still gauge how competitive it is to be admitted to these SUNYs.
From U. at Buffalo’s 2022-2023 Common Data Set (source):
From Stony Brook’s 2021-2022 Common Data Set (source)
I was unable to find a CDS for SUNY Polytechnic or College of Environmental Science and Forestry, though I do suspect that your odds of acceptance at those two would be better than at Binghamton, Stony Brook, or Buffalo.
You have received a lot of good advice here. To reiterate:
Focus on your undergraduate program - SUNY/CUNY options are great!
Keep in touch with your immigration lawyer.
Worry about med school later.
If you pursue a degree in biomedical engineering, an MD is not the only pathway into patient applications of engineering. You can join that kind of team as the engineer rather than as the doctor. To get started, read up on the research projects that the biomed. eng. faculty are engaged in at the SUNY/CUNY campuses that interest you. Find out what kind of internship placements are available for their students, and get yourself engaged in the research.
Are you eligible for a work permit in your current status? If so, get one and do the paid internships/summer jobs/whatever that will help you get work experience that is applicable to your goals as an engineer. When you do switch to the F1 visa, if you have previous work experience that will help you find/keep a job in your new status. Just be careful to stay on top of the F1 work restrictions for hours, etc.
The odds of your getting into Bing (let alone for engineering) are almost nil BUT you can apply for the special residential program with Broome, as mentioned upthread, live in dorms and complete the engineering pre-reqs.
You need to be practical:
Mechanical Engineering is a surer path to a job than BioMed Engineering, but BioMaterial Engineering at Alfred as mentioned by @aquapt is another very strong possibility for you.
The benefit: you’d switch from H4 to F1 junior year and from F1 you’d have the opportunity of a 3 year OPT which would allow you to work in the US.
You DO need to talk with an immigration lawyer about your situation, since H4->F1 must be quite common.
You could also try to get into a BS->RN or PA program. Both RNs and PA’s are in MUCH demand, earn good money, help people - and, if you do well in your training, you’d likely qualify for a work visa fast enough.
All these paths would cut the hassle of leaving the country, trying to qualify for a new visa, etc, etc.
Being an engineer or a nurse is the most practical solution for you and both include a path to further development, career changes, etc. Career changes are quite common in the US.
Apply to ALL SUNYS and CUNYs.
DO NOT consider that one is “beneath you”, because any ABET Accredited (ie., nationally standardized) program is going to be HARD.
Nursing and PA (post BS) programs will require 100s of hours practicing and volunteering with populations different from yourself (ie., homeless families, addicts, non Indian/non English speaking immigrants, etc.)
Your schedule senior year should include (in addition to MVC) Honors or AP English, Honors or AP Social Science/History, a foreign language at level 4 or 5, AP Physics and another honors or AP science.
Hopefully you’ve already taken Bio and Chem at the honors level.
Your GPA is 3.0 due to covid but I assume that was freshman and sophomore year - what is your average for this year only? It doesn’t help you much but if there’s a clear progression with strong grades Jr and Sr year it DOES help a bit.
I have read through this whole thread and my question to you is why does it have to be medical school? Is it just the family expectation? Or is it really your passion?
US Medical school is not an easy path. Not only is it expensive and difficult, but it’s also not good for your health. Lack of sleep, having to remember and memorize gobs of information, being on your feet all day, eating Kind Oatmeal bars, out of your lab coat, as meals. You have to stay as healthy as possible because you can’t catch whatever infection the patient has. People are miserable when they are ill. Much of your training patient population may be elderly. They can be non-compliant based on their budgets. They don’t feel well and they will let you know.
Our middle daughter just went through this whole process. (We paid $62k a year for her program. There are no real “scholarships”. It is upfront cash or US loans.) She was in her medical program in the middle of Covid. Experiencing that amount of death, as a young medical student, was very traumatizing for her, as well as for her classmates. They leaned on each other for support. They had lots of team-bonding experiences and gelled well.
Our eldest daughter attended SUNY @ University of Buffalo because they had an Honors program, for medical school, that linked her from UB, to those medical school programs. She later changed majors. I don’t think they have that program anymore, but the education she received at Buffalo, in engineering, was very strong.
Another thing to note is that the engineering programs are really, really tough, and may require hands-on experiences. You may end up doing a fifth year like she, and a large number of her classmates did, but the important thing is that it’s doable.
So my advice to you is that if you plan on studying engineering, stick to an engineering career. It’s a very marketable degree no matter where you plan on living or moving.
In my experience, there are just too many hurdles for admission to a US medical school, as an international student. If as a domestic student, it’s almost impossible to gain an admission because there are just too many good students and not enough spaces, imagine multiplying those odds as an international student.
What if your parents’ jobs, in the US, are in a group of future layoffs? What happens then? You can’t predict whether a person is going to have a permanent lifetime job in the US. What would happen to your green card status?
No one can predict the future so you need to prepare and have multiple options.
Good luck!
