All schools gave similar aid, so it isn’t a deciding factor.
Narrowed down to two schools - Carnegie Mellon and Columbia. These are the final two because of the breadth and depth of the math and computer science classes offered.
Actually, there is another potential option, because he was waitlisted at MIT, his dream school. That would change it all, as long as the aid was similar. Not counting on this at all, though.
CMU will likely be it; he likes the courses, the professors, the flexible curriculum compared to Columbia’s core and the student body - quirky, nerdy. And they just got first place in Putnam for the first time! We go to Columbia this weekend, though, for admitted students day. Maybe he will change his mind.
@jesse’sgirl, I actually was secretly hoping she would go to my alma mater in NY and already had some swag from there. I only bought the sweatshirt in So. Cal b/c I liked the style. I never thought she’d end up there-she really planned to be in the northeast!
@lisabees. My daughter is a Junior and visited Columbia this fall. Her tour guide told her their computer science department is a mess…way overcrowded and they are desperately trying to hire additional instructors. I wasn’t there and I’m shocked the guide would offer up that information, but it’s something your son should check out. Regards!
Columbia vs Carnegie Mellon? @mathmom this is a CS major…
Does this student want to spend four years living inna very expensive big city (NY) or four years living in a terrific smaller city with a much more modest cost of living?
While CMU is in a “city”…it has a gorgeous campus and isn’t right IN the middle of the city per se.
But some kids would LOVE the feel of NYC more.
I’ll wager that the CS department at CMU is excellent and perhaps,stronger than Columbia… but @mathmom can speak to this better than I can.
I am surprised no one has mentioned guaranteed research and internships as a deciding factor. For engineering students practical work experience is an important part of education. Honors colleges, scholarships, or Dean’s list can bump a student into these guaranteed opportunities at some schools.
You beat me to the punch, @MaterS I was about to say the final decision for my DS between his two favorite schools came down to research opportunities in his field. When both schools came up even (deciding between Lewis & Clark and Willamette), he went with gut instinct for campus culture/vibe, after visiting both on accepted student days. In the end, he visited both campuses twice, and ultimately chose Lewis & Clark.
As no doubt you know the CS departments of MIT, CMU, Berkley and Stanford regularly tie for first place at US News, but other rankings have different orders. Columbia always ranks lower, but it’s no slouch in the CS department. There may be slight differences in research focus that are more likely to be of interest to a grad student than an undergrad.
So what are the big differences? I think the two schools feel quite different. CMU is full of people who already know what they want to be when they grow up. This is true not just in CS, but they have excellent undergrad business, engineering, art, architecture and drama. It gives the place a somewhat more pre-professional feel. We were also very impressed with the “we try harder” attitude of SCS. Because they are a stand alone school within CMU, they have a lot of flexibility to tailor the education program. At the convocation the Dean asked for a show of hands for who had wanted to go to MIT - I think 90% of the kids raised their hands. He gave a very nice pep talk about the virtues of being number two. My son worked his butt off at CMU. He was no longer the smartest kid in the room - ever. He’s graduated a few years ago and is at his dream job. I was extremely impressed with the CMU network. When a summer internship got canceled due to the financial downturn within a week, CMU students helped him get a slot at NVidea. I was also impressed that my son as a freshman was already on a listserv with alumni, and even met up with them at he big Spring Carneval. He had more friends at CMU than he had ever had in high school. He found a great core of kids with similar nerdy interests.
I don’t know much about Columbia for undergrads. I was a grad student there, and my son’s girlfriend is working on a history PhD. It’s a nice part of town now. NYC is really very safe these days. It is, of course, much more expensive than Pittsburgh. You can’t beat NY for things to do off campus. Scuttlebutt is there is less to do on campus because the city is so alluring.
Although there is plenty to do on campus at CU! NYC is one of the top 10 safest cities in the world, currently. The cost of living isn’t so much a factor because they will be living on campus. CU students get lots of free arts in the city to attend. They ID card gets them into several museums, the campus provides a huge array of arts programs at discounted or free rates, and nyc itself has free stuff every day. There are listings of free stuff. No one needs a car to get around. The transportation is easy, and that saves money too. You can do your homework at the Met or in the “castle” at the Cloisters, just hop a bus. And you can’t beat the connections for jobs and access to internships.
We live near NYC, and our HS often hosts exchange students. Going into the city has brought many to tears of excitement. You can’t beat living in NYC for 4 years of college life if your want to experience city life.
Thank you, @Happy2Help
My daughter did, indeed, attend Bruin Day.
The decision between the two schools came down to contrasting their strengths. On the one hand, Case Western offers a very straight-forward path to nursing. And while there is an opportunity to change her mind/switch to another science major, we believed her best path forward in Cleveland would be nursing, beginning clinicals by the third week of class her freshman year. There is no equivalent “straight-away” path at UCLA as she did not apply to the nursing school as a freshman, and cannot transfer in as a junior. On the other hand, UCLA offers a broader array of world-class academic options in both science and non-science fields. If she chose UCLA, she’d be choosing a “less-career-secure” academic option than nursing as an undergrad.
It had to be asked: Is better to accept vocational training in a field that is among the “safest” careers (in terms of job security)? Or is it better to put off vocational training until grad school, and use the undergrad years to explore? Because the answer is different for every 18-year-old, mine had to decide what the right answer was for her.
After hours of tears, and very serious conversations, my student chose UCLA.
Congratulations! She will not be disappointed. She can find work (volunteer or paid internships) right next door at the Ronald Reagan Medical Center. She may set her sights higher or change her mind. There are so many various opportunities there and the support is fantastic! Remember, she applied for some reason, and she got in because they wanted her!
@mathmom@thumper1 Oh boy. S is very torn after Columbia’s admitted students weekend. MaterS, you asked about research opportunities.That is foremost in S’s mind. He felt that CMU would have more theoretical CS research opportunities available. He eventually wants to go into Artificial Intelligence Safety. Not the typical route for a CS kid.
Also - he has not been admitted to CMU as a CS major. He didn’t even apply. He would be math, with the intention of proving worthy enough to double major. He said he didn’t think he would get in as a CS major.
He takes classes at UPenn and his Computational Theory professor told him that Columbia has added more (CS) theory professors. S also found that the requirements for the engineering school Core is about the same as CMU’s distribution requirements.
He is also a Kluge Scholar at Columbia; not sure if that has any real impact or not.
He is so afraid of making a wrong decision. Each bit of new info makes him more conflicted.
Probably not a wrong decision between Columbia and CMU. I know my son’s friend got admitted to the CS major at CMU after freshman year (at least that is what my son said) so it seems possible. But would he be eligible for CS research as a math major? What if he doesn’t get into CS at CMU?
He will do well in either place, but seems like he knows he can be a CS major at Columbia and likely a minor at CMU. I don’t know enough about his area of interest to determine which will provide better employment/grad school options.
We’re deciding (yes, we) between UC Riverside, Cal Poly Pomona, San Jose State, and San Francisco State. UCR is my son’s first choice, based on visit, and because he believes that as a UC it has a better reputation, but it is the one where he would have to contribute about 6K from loans and/or work. The others we could swing. Cost is the biggest thing (him taking loans if he doesn’t have to), but if it was clearly the “better” school, in terms of reputation, grad rate, recruitment, etc., I would not be hung up on it. (I have looked at all kinds of data on all the schools.) The other thing is I’m afraid it’s in the worst place for on-campus recruitment, which I understand to be pretty important for landing that first job. And, well, finally, UCR was for many years the lowest of the UC’s, and I’m afraid its reputation may not have recovered, and he could be perceived as a UCReject, as it apparently used to be called.
I was about to say the final decision for my DS between his two favorite schools came down to research opportunities in his field. When both schools came up even (deciding between Lewis & Clark and Willamette), he went with gut instinct for campus culture/vibe, after visiting both on accepted student days. In the end, he visited both campuses twice, and ultimately chose Lewis & Clark.