Med School Admission Chances?? Low GPA (3.0) /Physics Major/ Taking Bio/Chem PreReq's in CC?????

Pre-Med & Medical School Pre-Med Topics
41

@binaya24

And just to be sure you understand what “disadvantaged backgrounds” means for the UCSF post bacc. It means student who grew up (before age 16, in the US) with severe economic difficulties. Disadvantaged does not refer to your ethnic background or the fact that you may have been economically disadvantaged/poor in another country before coming to the US.

Indicators of severe economic difficulties include – receiving food stamps/WIC; children on medicaid for the majority of their childhood; prolonged periods of homelessness; living in subsidized housing for more than a transitory period.

UCSF may consider you disadvantaged if your high school was so educationally poor that you were unprepared to attend college. (e.g. had a low graduation rate; had a very high drop out rate or was severely underperforming on national student achievement assessments) But this will require additional documentation.

You also need to be prepared to submit your parents’ tax information (current and past tax returns) if you plan to apply for any financial aid. This is true even if you no longer live with them and/or are not longer supported by them.

42

Depends on the type of non-trad. This type of non-trad and I would probably agree with you. The non-trads in my class who had successful (or in one case non-existent) college experiences and were career changers? (e.g. IB at Goldman, computer scientist at google, a full time lawyer at a major firm in a major city, an internationally touring musician, etc.) I’d do what they did and pursue MD/DO if it were what I really wanted.

43

Forget about UCSF, ANY program associated with UCSF will have thousands applicants. The program you referred to only takes about 15 admissions per YEAR. There must be 1000’s qualified applicants. The minimum acceptable gpa is a joke, do not take it seriously. I think this program is all FREE to the enrolled students.

Lets take a FULLY PAID UCSF program for example. My friends’ S applied UCSF’s regular PT program, out of 2-3000 applicants they interviewed 250, my friend’s S was selected for an interview, they ended up took in less than 20 out of the 250, my friend’s S obviously did not get a position and is going to Las Vegas to start his PT training this year. With your stats, you don’t have a chance.

Your self directed plan IS a post bacc program. If you complete your plan on your own, you don’t need any more post bacc programs as you listed above(UCSF etc). You need SMP programs as listed by WOWM in her posting to increase your odds. Those med school sponsored SMP programs actually teaches MS1 material, not the material at college level. If you do well alongside with a decent Mcat, you should be able to increase your chance to get into a med school. One of the SMP program I know costs $80K/year including RB.

If you want just take self directed post bacc UG courses, you can do it in any school except UCSF and any two year college like CCSF or CSM. CSUEB, SFSU or SJSU are all good, I know a kid from UCLA took makeup(post-bacc) courses at CSUEB and was successful got into a dental school this year.

All post-bacc classes are going to be full-pay without government subsidies.

44

https://www.studentdoctor.net/2016/06/post-bacc-program-guide/

Yes, the most common type of post bacc is a carrier changer. Technically OP could benefit from a post-bacc program.

Who Benefits from a Post-Bacc Program?
There are a huge variety of post-bacc programs to choose from, and many different kinds of students that might benefit from them. Here are some examples of students who might benefit from enrolling:

● Students who had weak scores in areas of biology, microbiology, chemistry or other core pre-med courses during their undergraduate years.
● Students who did not have a strong premed science core as undergrads.
● Students whose studies were interrupted by illness or other family or life issues. If their undergraduate GPAs suffered because of these problems, doing well in a post-bacc program can help make a medical school application more competitive.
● Non-traditional students who are coming into medicine as a second profession and who have spent time employed in other sectors. The “career changing” types of programs are particularly good for this.
● Students who want to gain more experience before beginning medical school. Many post-bacc programs allow for clinical time to give students this exposure.
● Students who are serious about working in the medical profession but do not know if clinical practice or medical research would be right for them.
● Students who are unsure about whether or not to enroll in medical school can get more clinical experience to help them make their decision.

Understanding your own particular needs and goals is the first, important step in choosing a post-bacc program that will work best for you.

The Types of Post-Bacc Programs: What is Right for You?
Although, again, there is a wide variety in the length and structure of post-bacc programs, they tend to fall into two broad categories:

● Enhancement Programs. These post-bacc programs offer students who have had a weak undergraduate performance (especially in core pre-med areas like anatomy and physiology or chemistry), to strengthen their academic background and enhance their competitiveness as a potential med student. These programs often consist of some combination of undergraduate and graduate coursework and some have the option for getting a Master’s degree.

● Career Change Programs. This kind of program offers students who have pursued careers outside the medical profession and have little or no science background. These programs help to correct this problem by giving students the opportunity to complete the science courses that are prerequisites for medical school. Many career change programs include MCAT preparation courses. These programs can be either loosely or tightly structured and some have options for self-study and continuing education.

Finding a Program to Suit Your Needs
The National Association of Advisers for the Health Professions outlines in great detail just what kind of post-bacc program would likely fit the needs of student with a given profile:

● Students with a GPA below 2.5 and an MCAT score of below 27 should consider a program which offers upper-level science courses and retake the MCAT again in a year.

● Students whose GPA is between 2.5-2.7 and whose MCAT scores are above 27 benefit from graduate school courses at strong institution.

● Students with a GPA around 3.0 and an MCAT score of above 27 benefit most from a post-bacc program which emphasizes strong science base and an MCAT review.

● Students with a GPA of above 3.0 and an MCAT of above 26 should consider a Master’s post-bacc program which includes actual medical school courses.

Post-Bacc Programs and Disadvantaged Students
Another kind of student who can greatly benefit from a post-bacc program are those from disadvantaged backgrounds who may not have the grades, test scores and other important criteria for a successful med school admissions attempt but who nonetheless simply lack the extra time and education it takes to become competitive.

45

I appreciate you all for giving feedbacks regarding the situation. I would like to update few things regarding the question that have been raised during the discussion.

@“aunt bea”
Question:
I don’t mean to be harsh but, is English your second language?
Why do I ask?
Your writing (especially grammar) will limit your chances for medical school because it adversely impacts the intent of your message.

Response: Yes English is my second language.
–To improve my grammar skills and composition, I plan to take couple college level English course and do lots of writing practice. Hopefully that will help me prepare my medical school application better.

@“aunt bea” I appreciate you raising concern regarding the investment of my time/ money in the pursuit of medical career. I understand it could be damaging to find out that it actually isn’t the field I like after spending considerable amount of time and money.
In the past couple years I have worked very hard to pay my family’s debt which was as high as 100K+. I have seen and done the hard work. I am willing to do the hard work again if need be, to pay the loans back. Plus, I think it will be helpful to mention that I have support from my family and they would do everything they can to help me out with the pursuit of my medical career.

@“aunt bea” You asked what my back up plan is??
I plan on applying to multiple schools for MD/DO in America and in Caribbean. I am hoping if i don’t get accepted to medical school in USA I will get into one in Caribbean (backup plan).

Plus, I can always explore other areas in medical filed (PA, Radiology Specialist …).

Also, I am now aware that I am not underrepresented minority. I came to America in 2008 and I was 18.

@artloversplus In regards to your question about whether I was international student?
Yes, I came as an International student in 2008, but I have earned citizenship through service in military since then.

@artloversplus You raised the issue about if certain post bacc are good fit. Thank you for pulling the info about it from SDN. I consider myself to fall under group of student whose studies were interrupted by illness or other family or life issues. I am hoping post bacc will help me gain deeper understanding of biology, chemistry, physiology, anatomy and higher biochem classes) plus help me prepare for MCAT.

@WayOutWestMom In regards to your concern about me having to take upper level biology/chemistry classes, I will do those through Berkeley Extension in SF.

@WayOutWestMom In regards to you concern about me not having shadowing experience/ clinical experience, I plan to have them during my preparation phase in UCSF/ SFGH and also other community health clinics.

@WayOutWestMom You mentioned that there are medical Schools that will only look at the last 90 credits earned, Can you please provide some more information on that?? Some links/directions would be helpful.

Okay, with all these things said, So far, following is the pathway I want to take to make it to the medical school.

Take 3 semesters of Pre requisites in CCSF SF.

Do 1 year of Post Bacc, Cal State East Bay ( I understand there are no academic advisors for medical students, I will just have to manage that on my own, besides you guys are always here when I need it.)

I will take MCAT and get the best score I can during the second semester of post bacc.

I will apply to SMP’s , MD/DO’s Medical School in USA/ Caribbean.

I will apply for admission to start in Fall 2020, If I don’t get in the First year I will try the second year also.

I will leave no excuses to turn back to.

Any comments and concerns are welcome. I am grateful that you all are interested in helping perspective medicine student find their way.
Thanks

46

Do NOT apply to Carribean schools. With changes in rules you will NOT get a residency and will not become a doctor. If you cannot get into even one DO school after two application cycles, you’ll have to switch career goals.
Really, you’d have MUCH higher odds of working in healthcare if you completed requirements for a nursing degree and pursued it to NP which would give you a lot of autonomy in patient care, or if you prefer the physician’s approach, the PA track who works as a general practitioner.
You’d essentially do the same job in less time, would make an excellent salary, and most importantly wouldn’t be going against odds that make it almost impossible for you.

47

Op
I think your plan is curageous but take the advice that do not attempt in the Carribeans, you will be sorry if you do. There is a chance for md school if you go work for at least 5 years in health care field and come back with good scores in post-bacc and Mcat.

But np and pa are better choices and if you do good you will make a good living.

48

@MYOS1634 What kind of changes in rules are there going to be, can you please provide more information about it?

49

OK, the situation right now is-- PCOM and AZCOM (both osteopathic medical schools) are both still allowing retakes to improve GPAs. How long this will last, I don’t know.

Most DO programs are more open to strong upward grade trends than MD programs.

The allopathic schools that recalculate GPA and/or emphasize the last 90 credits: Wayne State, Rosalind Franklin, Univ of Washington, Univ of New Mexico, Louisiana State-Shreveport**. (There may be others; however only these med school openly say they reweight AMCAS GPAs.)

only accepts applications from residents of WA, ID, WY, MT and AK
*only accepts OOS applications from registered Native Americans/Native Alaskans/Native Pacific Islanders or residents of AK, WY, ID, MT
***doesn’t accept OOS applications


RE: your plan

You don't need to take upper level sciences thru Berkeley Extension because the post bacc at CSU-East Bay will include upper level science classes. Be aware that the post bacc at CSU-EB is divided between 2 different campuses and specific classes are only offered at one site or the other, not both. You will need a car to travel between campuses.
50

I don’t know azcom but to get into pcom is as hard as to get into a lower ranked md school.

And Wayne state has a bias for IS, Oos require higher stats. That leaves RF. It’s too risky for the op at this point. He probably has to borrow to attemp on the post bacc, one slip, it’s over.

Better try pa, less risky.

51

Some more info on the caribbean school problems

https://■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/threads/carib-schools-and-future-residency-problems.889216/

52

The sdn thread referenced above is from 2012, things have drastic changes since then.

  1. More US md/do schools have been added, takes more residency positions away. Caribbean school graduates will be competing in the pool of jobs with US_IMG and IMG candidates. In 2012, the matching rate maybe 75%, in 2021 and beyond, it might be 50% or less.
  2. For 2021 Residency matching DO and MD positions have been combined. Currently, the DO students have to take COMLEX and USMLE in order to be matched in both pools. The DO schools will be more popular to all pre-med applicants, therefore, GPA and MCAT scores have been rising for the past two years make it more competitive. Right now the GPA for DO schools is around 3.6, but if you get an 520 MCAT it is possible to be lower.
  3. DO schools have abolished the grade replacement policy, makes post-bacc grade repair more difficult, so the advice from sdn website is not applicable with that change. A student with 2.7 GPA has no chance unless he/she becomes a non-trad in 10 years.
  4. Even if you can make it all 4.0 for post doc, the overall GPAs are still not very competitive in view of all the above, make it very risky for the route to a medical doctor for OP. If OP still insist, he might consider the non-trad route, 5 to 10 years after graduation, he might get a second chance. However, the post bacc and Mcat must be current to his apps, that is the courses and MCAT must be taken 5 to 10 years later.

It is more riskier for OP to work on all these post bacc full time on borrowed money(and time). My friend’s D, she has a wealthy parents, she spend 5 years in post bacc with paid tuition, room and board, now is starting dental school. While her classmate, childhood playmate, is practicing dentistry already.

53

"Okay, with all these things said, So far, following is the pathway I want to take to make it to the medical school.

Take 3 semesters of Pre requisites in CCSF SF."

I don’t think you READ any of the treads. If not, go back and re-read them especially the one from WOWM which specifically commented your plan at CCSF, its a JR. college, you DO NOT want to do pre-med post bacc there.

54

@artloversplus said what I meant. Remember that you would e competing for fewer spots with the world, not just Caribbean applicants, too.
To be the clearest, your plan won’t work. It’s impossible. Your path is either NP or PA and from there you can get back to med schoolI’d you still don’t find you work fulfilling.

NP’s and PA 's are American denominations, perhaps you don’t understand what these professions mean - they do what in other countries is called ‘general practitioner’ , the person you see at your neighborhood ‘surgery’ or ‘medical cabinet’ or ‘health house’ for the purpose of checking on common illnesses. If there’s something big they direct you to a specialist, either in private practice or a hospital. Since it sounds like being a ‘GP’ is what you want to be, I don’t understand why you won’t look into being a PA or NP.

55

In addition to what has already been said, the ACGME and the AOA are merging to create one accrediting body further blurring the line between allopathic MD and osteopathic DO graduates. The more DO applicants who get into ACGME residencies, the fewer foreign MDs.
http://www.acgme.org/Portals/0/PDFs/Nasca-Community/FAQs.pdf

56

I live next to CSUEB, so here is my advice.

If you live in the city, you’d better off with SFSU to do your post bacc which is a 4 year college and its not too far from CCSF with good public transportation access and with decent pre-med advisory. It is fine come to CSUEB, but the access to CSUEB from anywhere BART starts it is almost one hour commute via public transportation each way, with that you will become a “full time” student and cannot do anything else. AC Transit is a pain to get on and it is not directly in sync with BART schedule, a lot of time will be wasted by waiting and it will cost more to make the round trip. CSUCB is good for students with a car who live in the Bay Area.

SMP is offered by med schools which you may have to go OOS, so that is another subject for discussion two years down the road. At that time PA maybe your best choice.

57

Today was match day. As a point of reference:
94.3% of 18,359 US MD graduates matched
81.7% of 3,590 US DO graduates matched
54.8% of 5,069 American citizens from foreign medical schools matched
52.4% of 7,284 Foreign citizens from foreign medical schools matched
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Advance-Data-Tables-2017.pdf

No match = not a doctor
There are nearly 4x as many US MD grads as American IMG grads and yet by raw numbers there are still more IMGs who fail to match than US MDs

58

DR. IWBB, is this the only chance for US MD/DO? If some one did not get matched, what happens next year?

59

All Matches are done–the MD match (today); the DO match (Feb), the military match (Dec).

There might be a handful of residency slots available off-cycle or not thru the Match, but the number available is very limited and highly variable and can’t be counted on as a sound option.

And I think (not 100% sure) there’s a late scramble for any remaining DO residency positions that opens after the MD match. (For DO students who apply MD Match and then don’t match.)

They reapply for the Match…

US med students should ask their Dean if they can delay graduation for a year. Because once out of med school, the individual can no longer participate in hands-on patient care. (For a long list of legal reasons, including the inability of the individual to qualify for malpractice insurance.) Once a person is no longer involved in hands-on patient care, their clinical skills begin to deteriorate and residency directors become more & more reluctant to interview & rank them. (Supposedly 2 years outside of medicine and your chance of a match approaches zero.) Even if a student can delay graduation by 3 or 6 months to do additional clinical rotations (home or away), that’s better than being outside of medicine for an entire year.

Individuals who applied in competitive specialties but didn’t match often delay graduation to do a year of specialty-related research before re-applying next cycle.

US-IMGs really don’t have many options. They can apply for research assistant positions or do observerships (basically shadowing) in US hospitals. I think I’ve heard SGU allows its unmatched students to stay an extra year to earn a MPH–though whether that improves their chances for match I can’t say.

60

Hello all,
I have came across a GRADUATE CERTIFICATE PREMEDICAL PROGRAM , Edward Via College of Osteopathic Medicine.
https://www.vcom.edu/premedical_admissions

I want to apply to this program after I complete courses through CCSF. Seems to me a program like this one or similar other programs could be a gateway to medical school.

Any thoughts regarding this are appreciated.
Thanks