MICA was at D's HS

College Majors Visual Arts and Film Majors
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<p>A MICA rep came to my D's AP Studio Art class yesterday to talk about MICA and then do a portfolio review for any interested kids. My D is a junior and this was the first time anyone had looked at her portfolio other than her art teacher. From what she said, it was very positive.</p>

<p>The MICA rep said that she liked the different textures that she works with in her drawings and paintings. She really liked a still life (probably best piece in D's portfolio right now). Told her to add more backround to another picture, but really liked the emotion she sees in the picture. Told her that one piece she did looks like it was done "early" in her art career. OK, guess she didn't like that one, but her art teacher LOVES it!</p>

<p>Asked her if pictures were done from photos or observation. Only one was done from a photo. But the rep really liked that one and told D it is perfectly acceptable to do art from photos as you experiment with textures, etc. and to include them in the portfolio.</p>

<p>She had a quick sketch in there done from a live model, rep asked her how long it took her to sketch it and said that she was impressed by what she captured in that time.</p>

<p>Overall, D was very happy, it seemed to be a very positive experience. But since this was her first portfolio review, was wondering what everyones opinion is of the feedback?</p>

<p>We will be attending a NPD in December, I hope the feedback is as positive.</p>

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<p>Oh, that’s really cool that they have schools come into the classroom like that! I imagine it must be so much less stressful and hurried than NPD. One of the things I had wished for my kid was that her school offered an AP art program – but they didn’t. She had to settle for the five year regents sequence for art – but I know that the kids do a lot of really cool projects in the AP class. </p>

<p>My D was a junior when she went to her first ND too. It was a really good experience for her and we learned a few things about what to do for her NPD for her senior year – like bring people to stand in line for you and bring water, take good notes, etc. I also found that the schools were more willing to let me kind of hang around in earshot than when she was a senior. This was good because when I heard their feedback, I was more encouraged about letting her pursue a career in art – you know, both H and I are scientists and we both were very worried about the expense of art school and then the future of being a ‘starving artist’. So art schools should take note and let parents in on some of that review process just because ultimately we’re the ones that get to foot the prodigious bill. Particularly if the parent hangs back a little and doesn’t say a word. Maybe they need a cone of silence for the parent, lol. I know that there are some overbearing parents out there that kind of take over for the kid when the kid needs to learn how to present themselves – but I’d think that the value of having parents hear the critiques (and have a glimpse of what the reviewers quickly scrawl on their papers – they do rate the portfolios then and there) would overally be in the artschool’s best interest.</p>

<p>I’m glad your D was encouraged. MICA seems to be a great school. I know my D loves it.</p>

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<p>One of my most “My D should be glad I’m not THAT parent” moments came when we were standing in line for my D and 2 people in front of us were a dad and daughter, and HE was flipping the portfolio pages and doing all the talking - she just stood look there looking embarassed. Every time she opened her mouth, he had something to say. During school visits where D brought her portfolio, we were allowed in the room, but we did not say a word. Gave her a chance to practice talking about her work while giving us a good idea of where her skills stood.</p>

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<p>On the program for the day for NPD they should put something like “Dear Parents: NPD is your student’s day to present their work to the reviewers and to receive feedback on their portfolio. You are welcome to listen in on the conversation but it is not appropriate for you to comment, intervene, or participate.” Maybe then some will get the message. But its the few obnoxious parents that ruin things for the rest of us. I’ll admit that when I had general questions about the school, I asked them before or after the portfolio review – but during the review I stayed to the side and kept my mouth shut. D is naturally very shy and introverted and it was not at all an easy process for her to learn to talk about her work (particularly since her art teacher in HS NEVER does class crits) but she did learn and did gain confidence. </p>

<p>When she first visited MICA, she brought her portfolio along to be reviewed and I was pointedly invited to sit in the waiting room… which, on some level, I found insulting… but on the other hand I completely understood the reasons for it and was fine with it. I do wish I had been a fly on the wall though… Her admissions counselor after that always referred to her as ‘rock star’ and I always wondered why.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the tips regarding NPD. D will do all of the talking. This first portfolio review was good for her because it was one on one and they just talked about her art. The thing is I have absolutely no artistic skills whatsover, I look at her stuff and think it’s great, but just don’t know. So, I guess my real question is that if the rep didn’t think her stuff was good, she wouldn’t have given positive feedback just to be nice? Would she? I have no experience with this at all. Thanks.</p>

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<p>You would think that they would try to be nice in order to ‘sell’ their college/school. The more exclusive schools that can be pickier about their students tend to be more ‘brutally’ honest in their reviews than some of the smaller schools (just my opinion… my D got the most glowing reviews and promised a summer program scholarship ‘just’ for applying to a small art school in California.<br>
I did overhear some really tough criticism for some people. One guy that was ahead of us in line had some line drawings on copy paper – and from what I could see, they weren’t really very good – and he was ripped by the reviewer… he was basically told that art was not the field for him and that he shouldn’t bother to try to do more and come back next year… and I remember another girl that got a pretty negative review; so I’ve seen it happen. Even in my own D’s case, reviewers did not necessarily like every piece in her portfolio … for instance when asked directly if the reviewer thought a particular piece should be included in the portfolio or not, they were likely to say no to items they didn’t particularly like. Art schools have a sort of bent towards some forms of art vs. others. My D did not have much in the way of conceptual art in her portfolio – but lots of drawings from real life; lots of realism. The more conceptual schools like RISD tended to like the conceptual stuff and while acknowledging her technical skill, they were more interested in that, while other schools that were more representational based – like Syracuse or CIA – kind of tended to focus more on that than on the conceptual/abstract surrealistic stuff.<br>
The best thing to do is to get a wide variety of reviewers from different places. Also outside art lessons with working artists and local art shows are good places to get somewhat impartial feedback, keeping in mind that art is subjective anyway.</p>

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<p>At one NPD we went to, D was given great feedback by a few college reps. We didn’t want to wait on any huge lines, so these reps were from smaller schools like Otis, Moore College of Art, etc. Sometimes, if you’re going to NPD for advice, this is a good strategy since you’ll get to talk to the most people that way.</p>

<p>There was one rep (can’t remember the school) that was very unhelpful. All she said was that D could use one of those nice portfolio books to show photographs of her work in. That was ALL she said. D was showing originals, most smaller than 18 x 24, that were easy to carry around so the lack of a book really stumped us (most reps would rather see originals). So, remember to interpret the remarks intelligently and don’t take anything too personally.</p>

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<p>Is your D a senior?</p>

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<p>With all due respect I must totally take issue with Glutenmom’s advice about bringing people to stand in line for the kids at NPR. This is really not correct and it makes it very difficult for the kids who don’t bring “people” to get a fair chance to see all the schools. At the NPR I attended there were so many parents who were doing this as well as being just generally intrusive, meanwhile there were still lines of kids outside trying to get in. Because the space had a limit on people who could be allowed in all these parents were actually impeding the chance other kids had to even get access to the room. The host school was not happy about the parents doing this and it would be my gut instinct that any parent who insisted on talking for their kid will only hinder their child’s success at getting good reviews. They do take notes and I’m sure that sort of thing is noted as they are looking for young people who can speak for themselves.</p>

<p>Personally after the behavior I observed I think parents should be banned from the event and made to wait downstairs. I myself left and did just that so another kid might have a chance to get in and see some schools before closing. The host school was asking other parents to do so also with little success. I’m sure that the fact that by being in the actual space keeps other kids from getting in might not have crossed anyone’s mind or might not be that clear so I feel like this should be mentioned. And please don’t bring extra people to stand in lines…it’s really not fair.</p>

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<p>One other note, I understand that parents are footing the bills etc. but school tours would be the appropriate time to talk to the schools about the particulars of the different programs, etc. NPR really should just be about the young artists being able to show and get feedback on their work and in as private a setting as possible, which is almost impossible at NPR. Hard enough for a kid who’s getting “find another line of work kid” advice in front of peers let alone all the lurking parents. I just don’t think NPR is the appropriate place to be getting information other than the students getting feedback about their work and portfolios.</p>

<p>I hope this doesn’t sound like I’m criticizing but I from what I experienced and after talking to the head of the host school, I think this isn’t clear enough to parents. I don’t think people meant to be unfair (holding line places) etc. I think they weren’t aware that they were keeping kids out on the street in line. There are capacity limits in these places and I suppose NPR is used to this but it behooves us as parents to consider this.</p>

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<p>After the first year, we learned our lesson, brought extra people and got there really really early – and in our area there are two days back to back at different colleges and we went to both. With extra people. You do what you have to do. It’s a tough world out there. I offer no apologies whatsoever. It is a public event. We came, we saw… we went back the next year better informed and better equipped to do what we needed to do. We were not going to traipse around the country to all these schools to do college visits. The kid talked to maybe twenty schools over the course of the two days, we visited less than half of those. We selected the ones that were the most likely candidates in large part from what we found out on those days from talking with those schools. I would have been 1000 times less likely to allow my kid to go to art school if I hadn’t heard the feedback the kid got at the review days we went to and seen the ‘competition’ as it were.</p>

<p>School tours or open house events are fairly useless for addressing specific issues/problems/concerns. So I disagree with you about that.</p>

<p>This is from the NPDA website: “Representatives will be available to review your artwork, discuss their programs and answer questions about professional careers in art. High school students, parents, teachers, guidance counselors and college transfer students are encouraged to attend.” Also this: “National Portfolio Days are also about the exchange of information about your work, yourself, your college plans, and your concerns. This is not an examination or competition. The college representatives are pleased to talk about their programs with you and can be most helpful when discussing your artwork.” </p>

<p>You can be noble and leave so the kids that slept in late can have a chance to get into the building. That’s fine with me. Then there’s one less person there. That’s kind of how the real world works. If there’s an advantage to bringing extra people to a public event, then there’s nothing wrong in using that advantage. Life is so not fair. Get over it.</p>

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<p>I agree with Glutenmom, to some extent. It isnt that I think we should get over life being unfair, but I dont really see anything unfair about bringing your parent to NPD. Or standing in two lines at once, which doesnt really provide that much advantage. My H stood in a line for S, got to the front of line, my S was still in his line, so my H bailed, wandered around, and then my S finished the first line and went to the second, which had dwindled somewhat. There is probably a systems analysis that can be done about double line standing and its efficiency effects.</p>

<p>I think that NPD expects or at least doesnt mind a certain amount of parent involvement, based on the website. Also a lot of folks can’t afford the time or money to visit a college. Also, the kids are a little overwhelmed with talking about their work so they forget some of the facts. My S’s experience was that the rep talked to him about his work, my son brought my H who took notes when the rep started talking scholarships, other logistics. My H stepped back when the kid was talking about his work and when the rep was talking the logistics the rep engaged both of them. My S went to the NPD at the corcoran in DC and my H said that the place was emptying out by the end of the day, so there wasnt really anyone who didnt get in. My H also said it was kind of nauseating the way certain parents talked for their kids. The other thing is if you dont bring someone with you, you will be at a big disadvantage. I think the idea is figure out who you are interested in talking to, and plan ahead a little bit. Also, everyone wants to talk to RISD, so the line is really long. I wonder if there is any real advantage to getting in front of a risd rep at NPD?</p>

<p>So if we were monday morning quarterbacking NPD- what would our advice be? I bring this question out to the group- Here are some of my thoughts- </p>

<p>Is it worth standing in the RISD line?- I guess so, because they are pretty honest at NPD and will tell you if you dont have the chops? I dont really know, my S didnt apply to RISD for financial reasons. (He loved MICA, knew he would get in, and MICA gives some scholarship money) RISD is pretty clear its mostly need based, with very little merit money. Also I think you have to do those other two senior year scholarships to qualify for the money, Scholasticarts is one, cant remember the other.</p>

<p>certain schools will accept your portfolio on the spot. SAIC being one of them.</p>

<p>I think if you are interested in cooper, it is good to get in front of them for npd.</p>

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<p>Let me see if I can remember how this all went down with RISD. In the spring of D’s sophomore year (wow!) we went on a little circle tour of colleges she might be interested in. I think we went to RISD, Syracuse, and Cornell on that trip. At that time she was interested in architecture. At RISD we went on a tour with a bunch of other parents and prospective students and D was really excited about the possibility of going there. RISD was, for the longest time, her top choice for college/art school. She had the grades and the mathematical chops to swing architecture, so that’s what we were aiming for at the first NPD we went to which was her Junior HS year. She slept in and dawdled and we got to Pratt fairly late – but before NPD actually started and were at the back of a long snaking line that wandered through the campus and out to the street. Lesson noted. Get there early. Once we finally got inside, the lines were very long. The kid that was her tour guide at RISD was one of the people reviewing portfolios at the RISD table. He recognized her from our visit that past Spring. He was relatively noncommital – she was a junior, he told her things to work on (work from life, not from photos. Increase the variety of media she was using, if she could take figure drawing, to do that). Fast forward another year and we went back to with a much clearer idea of what to expect. This time there was a different reviewer at the RISD table. He looked through her work and didn’t say much, but when you watched him go through the work you could tell which pieces he thought were particularly good – for instance she had an ink still life drawing and he ended up using his fingers to frame part of it and he said something along the lines of ‘wow, if you really look at this, there’s a lot going on here, these aren’t just random lines’ – and when asked, said yes, definitely include that piece in her portfolio – and there were a few others that he lingered over – so we were fairly certain that her work was on a par with what would be accepted at RISD. The same sorts of mannerisms were evident with other reviewers for other schools (lingering over some work, picking it up and looking at it closely, talking with her about it). There was a difference in the reception her art got between the Junior visit and the senior visit – but she had spent that year really focused on developing a substantial body of work. So even if you happen to be out of earshot, you can tell a lot from body language and how animated a conversation the kid is having with the reviewer. My kid is very shy, so if the reviewer was really animated in his conversation with her (like the cooper reviewer – I couldn’t hear what was said, but I could see into the room and watch what was going on) I took note of it. My kid has self esteem issues too, so it was interesting when I asked her about the conversation, her take was ‘he thought it was ok’… whereas I think the actual conversation was probably much more positive.
just my .02 worth</p>

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<p>We were surprised to learn that one of the high schools in our county holds its own portfolio review day. About 15 schools attended and my son was able to show work to two of the schools he was interested in. It was very intimate and calm. And they did not mind outsiders attending. This made NPD (at Pratt and Purchase) much easier. I think these smaller review days are common in some parts of the country. I will try to find out more and post it here. But as you can see, he still needed to attend those two different NPDs to connect with all of the schools he was interested in.</p>

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<p>My D and I took some time this summer to visit colleges (even though many had no students around) and she brought her portfolio along to get some feedback. She’s been very deliberate about NOT applying to too many schools, and has narrowed her search to MICA, CIA, RIT, Pratt, Pratt MWP, and Syracuse (and one NY state school as a safety).</p>

<p>Even without students on campus, those visits were invaluable. We enjoyed lengthy tours with very few students/parents in the groups (two schools took us by ourselves) and plenty of time with admissions counselors who looked over my D’s work.</p>

<p>At MICA, my D made it clear that the portfolio she brought was not the one she’d be submitting – she just wanted to know what they were looking for. That was back in mid-August, and today she got a letter accepting her portfolio, which was a total surprise to me.</p>

<p>MICA did not want me to accompany her, and that was probably for the best. When she returned with her admissions counselor, I asked a few questions, culminating with, “Is she on the right track? Is she a suitable candidate for MICA, or is she out of her league applying here?” The woman was very warm in her response and said she had the skills and talents to make her a good candidate.</p>

<p>At CIA they allowed me to come along. The feedback I overheard at CIA was that her pencil and charcoal figure drawings were strong and indicated that she could draw from life. (She’d taken a pre-college figure drawing course at Syracuse and that made all the difference in the world.)</p>

<p>All her portfolio reviews (including Pratt MWP) gave differing opinions as to what they’d like to see. Some wanted very finished work, and in her figure drawings they asked to see more background. But all of them agreed that they felt figure drawing and still life drawings made for a strong portfolio, even though she wants to major in graphic design.</p>

<p>My advice? See if anyone in your area offers figure drawing classes. Look for classes that offer both short gesture drawings and longer amounts of time for finished work. My daughter’s work used to be very tight and specific. Since taking up figure drawing her strokes have become much more loose and fluid, and I’ve been so impressed with her progress.</p>

<p>I haven’t done any NPD yet, but I’ve been advised to NOT stand in line for hours to be seen by the top schools but to take the opportunity to stand in line for smaller schools with few people. You’ll get feedback and be exposed to schools you may not have considered. We followed that advice at a college fair and discovered CIA that way.</p>

<p>As for the campus visits, just walking through the environment really gives you a sense of whether or not the fit is good. MICA is beautiful and right in the city, CIA also beautiful but small and located in just two buildings. Syracuse has an interesting campus with its design building in downtown Syracuse in a funky, trendy part of town, and RIT is very much a brick campus in the suburbs with not too much physical appeal. My D did not want to apply to a school without knowing much beyond the campus literature and website. Although I resisted making the campus visits, I"m glad she pushed.</p>

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<p>I agree with artsmarts concerning NPD etiquette. D2 and I only went to one NPD because it was just too unpleasant to deal with the “cattle call” nature of it. She enjoyed speaking to the less sought after school reps, in a more calm environment. </p>

<p>She also enjoyed feedback from interviews. A rep from Pratt came to DC and we saw him at his hotel and had a nice chat. I left them alone for the most part, but I wasn’t going to send her into someone else’s hotel room alone! Of course, by then she was a senior and it counted as an interview too. For students who want feedback earlier, you could still schedule a portfolio review with the traveling school reps. D2 set it all up online. </p>

<p>MICA does portfolio reviews all the time too (if you’re in the neighborhood). You can set one up to be after an info session and tour. </p>

<p>We visited Cooper and set up a portfolio review there too. It was a huge group (I think they do it every Friday in November? Where’s Bears when you need Cooper info?) and they divided the students into review times and asked the parents to not come in at all. For D2, that was a bit traumatic, but she was only a sophomore then. Still, it was much better than a typical NPD “long line” experience. </p>

<p>She never did get that RISD review, but she was accepted there anyway. And someone else on this forum had the strange experience of her D having her portfolio accepted, but then she wasn’t accepted at the college! </p>

<p>All in all, NPD can be useful, but it can also be quite a pain. I see no need to get all survivalist about it. I wish the schools would do a better job of making it more civilized. Why can’t you sign up in advance to see certain schools during certain time blocks? Hell, the National Park Service managed to do that with the Washington Monument. People used to have to circle around the base of the thing like some bizarre polico/sexual ritual. Now, you reserve tickets in advance if you want to and they reserve about 1/2 the tickets for people who show up early the day they want the tour. Balance really isn’t that hard to achieve.</p>

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<p>“You can be noble and leave so the kids that slept in late can have a chance to get into the building. That’s fine with me. Then there’s one less person there. That’s kind of how the real world works. If there’s an advantage to bringing extra people to a public event, then there’s nothing wrong in using that advantage. Life is so not fair. Get over it.”</p>

<p>My my my we’re getting a little testy here. No I did not do it to be noble, I did it to be polite. I doubt that all of those kids standing in line were outside in line because they slept late. And I felt that it was my kid’s time and event, not mine. As for there being an “advantage to bringing extra people to a public event blah blah blah” that’s not exactly the situation. What we’re talking about is using extra people to hold your place in line and yes it’s not fair. If the message you want your child to have is do whatever it takes to get ahead and if it’s impolite those noticing should “get over it” so be it, not my idea of a rule of thumb for living. Sorry.</p>

<p>And as I noted the host school head of school was not amused by all the “holding places” in line.
So I still say for those who think this is good advice think about the message you’re sending to your kid.</p>

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<p>Just though of something else
Perhaps it wasn’t just politeness on my part
You see in NYC they call this “cutting” and people have been known to be seriously injured for doing this, it’s very taboo…so perhaps it was just survival instinct on my part LOL</p>

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<p>Switters:
“I think that NPD expects or at least doesnt mind a certain amount of parent involvement, based on the website. Also a lot of folks can’t afford the time or money to visit a college. Also, the kids are a little overwhelmed with talking about their work so they forget some of the facts.”</p>

<p>It’s one thing for parent’s to come to NPD and it’s probably okay to ask the schools some questions but it’s quite another to be holding places in line for 2 or 3 schools. As for the kids being overwhelmed this is a great opportunity for them to get over that! </p>

<p>I mean this seriously as critiques are something a lot of kids aren’t used to and what better place to get used to doing that. I really do think the schools are looking for kids who are independent and can talk about their work without mom and dad in the background prompting. My leaving NPR had absolutely no effect on what happened with my child who managed to get through pretty much all the wanted lines including RISD and Cooper without me there. And was asked by schools to apply early decision including Cooper and I think some of that was because it was just my kid, talking about art and no parent in sight. Granted the work was strong but I think they do notice who is there independently and like that so if your kid has some confidence take note, I think it helped that I wasn’t there.</p>

<p>That’s my tip but I do know some kids are going to be more nervous and unused to this sort of situation and it’s fine for parents to come but this holding places in line thing just seems a bit much to me, it makes the day seems even more cut-throat and full of neurotic behavior. But I guess some see it differently but my advice stands based on what we experienced.</p>

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<p>Hi Arty-</p>

<p>So I have never been to NPD- my H took my S in 11th grade. I asked him about this again. The question was sort of “Do you think its fair to stand in lines, and some other follow up questions along those lines…” He said that ultimately his standing line had no impact, since S wasnt around when H got to the front, so H stepped out. Im also having trouble remembering if S went to 12th grade NPD, or if things were so far along at that point that he didnt bother.
Also, he said that by the time S was done talking to Cooper at the end of the day the place had kind of cleared out. Now, also my S loves to talk about art, and his art, and is not even a little bit nervous about that kind of thing, so having his dad there was mostly to keep him company during the line standing, and for his dad to get the joy of seeing all the art and hearing his kid (albeit with only one ear tilted) talk about his work. But many of the reps talked to S, and then talked to his dad and him, to talk about scholarship strategy and that sort of thing. So look, everyone’s experience is different in terms of even applying to college. For instance, I did a lot of project management aspects, getting my S to understand the deadlines, reading between the lines on applications, scholarship applications, tours and so on. Kids come with varying degrees of maturity about this stuff, and parents come with varying degrees of knowledge about art and art schools. You have an art background (I think? not sure why I think this?) and so its not like visiting Oz for you the way it is for us engineers and accountants. Some parents get a huge amount of pleasure from witnessing the environment. i think we agree that there is a balance?</p>