<p>Frasifrasi, Princeton does not usually admit transfer applicants. Columbia and Yale accept fewer than 10% of transfer applicants. NYU (unless you are referring to Stern) isn't quite as good as Michigan or UVa, nor is Schreyer.</p>
<p>I disagree with your comment that NYU and schreyer aren't better than Michigan or UVA. Not only are they more selective and have better classes for Nick's field, they also bound to provide a better experience (of course, this depends on the student but I think Nick has said before he would love to go to NYU). I was just suggesting an alternative route, but you get the point--by doing that he could get in a few much better schools than UVA or UM, even if it isn't those Ivy's I cited.</p>
<p>But you are right that UM and UVA are fantastic universities; going there for three years may be indeed more benefitial than applying to schools like Upenn/Chicago/Ivy and only staying for two years.</p>
<p>NYU is equal to Michigan and UVa in Finance, not as good as either in any other aspect of Business education. In Economics, Michigan is slightly better than both NYU or UVa, but not by a significant margin.</p>
<p>In terms of overall academics, NYU is not quite as good as either Michigan or UVa. And in terms of undergraduate experience, unless one does not wish to have an undergraduate experience, Michigan and UVa are seriosuly more appealing than NYU.</p>
<p>I am not sure why selectivity is entering the picture here, but NYU is not more selective than Michigan or UVa. </p>
<p>Finally, care to tell me what universities are "much better" than Michigan or UVa? I can think of just 5 (Harvard, MIT, Princeton, Stanford and Yale) that are merely better and that's it.</p>
<p>for my field(comp engineering), I can think of more than 20. A few of which include MIT, caltech, stanford, carnegie mellon,purdue, cornell, texas, etc...</p>
<p>For business: Upenn, chicago, dartmouth, berkeley, northwestern, and others are some not included on your list.</p>
<p>However, you are assuming that everyone is like you and has the same penchants/motives. Being from NY, I personally prefer NYU over UVA or UM hands down--whether it be business or otherwise. I understand that you base your opinions on reported data and ranking, but ignoring the student's personality and ambitions is narrow-minded and null.</p>
<p>loslobos...i actually do live in pennsylvania, and to hate on schreyer's based on one student is too stupid to even warrant a response.</p>
<p>^ precisely. It is funny how people here go on a whim to state general things about a school they have never even visited or attended class at based just on magazine rankings or unrealistic isolated experiences. Even worse are in threads along the lines of "which are the top ten campuses" or "which school is better" where members will post a confident response based on a picture they saw and with complete lack of acquaintance with the schools in question.</p>
<p>You have a serious lack of knowledge, even in your own field frasi. Michigan is ranked between #5 and #6 in Computer Engineering, depending on the year. </p>
<p>OVERALL RANKING OF UNDERGRADUATE ENGINEERING PROGRAMS ACCORDING TO THE LATEST USNWR:</p>
<ol>
<li> Massachusetts Institute of Technology 4.8 </li>
<li> Stanford University 4.7 </li>
<li> University of California–Berkeley 4.7 </li>
<li> California Institute of Technology 4.5 </li>
<li> University of Illinois–Urbana-Champaign 4.5 </li>
<li> Georgia Institute of Technology 4.4 </li>
<li>University of Michigan–Ann Arbor 4.4 </li>
<li> Carnegie Mellon University 4.3 </li>
<li> Purdue Univiversity–West Lafayette 4.3 </li>
<li>Cornell University 4.2 </li>
<li>Princeton University 4.1 </li>
<li>University of Texas–Austin 4.1 </li>
<li>University of Wisconsin–Madison 4.0 </li>
<li>Johns Hopkins University 3.9 </li>
<li>Northwestern University 3.9 </li>
<li>Pennsylvania State University–University Park 3.9 </li>
</ol>
<p>RANKING OF TOP COMPUTER ENGINEERING DEPARTMENTS ACCORDING TO THE LATEST USNWR</p>
<ol>
<li>Massachusetts Institute of Technology<br></li>
<li>Stanford University</li>
<li>Carnegie Mellon University </li>
<li>University of California–Berkeley </li>
<li>University of Illinois–Urbana-Champaign</li>
<li>University of Michigan–Ann Arbor </li>
<li>Georgia Institute of Technology<br></li>
<li>University of Texas–Austin<br></li>
<li>Cornell University </li>
<li>California Institute of Technology<br></li>
<li>Purdue University–West Lafayette </li>
<li>Princeton University</li>
<li>University of Washington<br></li>
<li>University of Wisconsin–Madison<br></li>
<li>Duke University</li>
</ol>
<p>In Business, Michigan (Ross) and UVa (McIntire) are concidered top 5 undergraduate programs. Chicago, Dartmouth and Northwestern don't even have undergraduate Business programs. </p>
<p>RANKING OF OVERALL UNDERGRADUATE BUSINESS SCHOOLS ACCORDING TO THE USNWR
1. University of Pennsylvania (Wharton) 4.8
2. Massachusetts Institute of Technology (Sloan) 4.6
3. University of California–Berkeley (Haas) 4.5
3. University of Michigan–Ann Arbor 4.5
5. New York University (Stern) 4.3
5. University of North Carolina–Chapel Hill (Kenan-Flagler) 4.3
5. University of Texas–Austin (McCombs) 4.3
8. Carnegie Mellon University (PA) 4.2
9. University of Southern California (Marshall) 4.1
9. University of Virginia (McIntire) 4.1
11. Cornell University (NY) 4.0
11. Indiana University–Bloomington (Kelley) 4.0
13. Emory University (Goizueta) (GA) 3.9
13. University of Illinois–Urbana-Champaign 3.9
13. University of Minnesota–Twin Cities (Carlson) 3.9 </p>
<p>RANKING OF UNDERGRADUATE BUSINESS SCHOOLS ACCORDING TO BUSINESSWEEK:
1. University of Pennsylvania (Wharton)
2. University of Virginia (McIntire)
3. University of California-Berkeley (Haas)
4. Emory University (Goizuette)
5. University of Michigan-Ann Arbor (Ross)
6. Massachusetts Institute of Technology (Sloan)
7. University of Notre Dame (Mendoza)
8. Brigham Young University (Marriott)
9. New York University (Stern)
10. Cornell University
11. Georgetown University (McDonough)
12. Villanova
13. University of Texas-Austin (McCombs)
14. Boston College (Carroll)
15. University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill (Kenan Flagler)</p>
<p>Recruiting at Ross and McIntire at the very least matches recruitment at all undergraduate institutions save Wharton, Harvard and maybe Princeton and Yale.</p>
<p>To say that you can think of more than 20 universities that are better than Michigan in Engineering or than Michigan and UVa in Business shows a serious lack of understanding on your part.</p>
<p>All I hear from you people is blah blah blah blah. Shut up. I never said he was the ONLY kid I know there. I know a couple other 'brilliant' kids who got in there. What I was getting at was the fact that I thought Schreyer was more selective than it seemed. Get off Penn State's nuts. Nick is transferring for a reason...</p>
<p>Many state universities have Honors Programs that enroll students that are statistical peers to students in the Ivies not named HYP. Schreyer definitely is one of these. The kids coming out of Schreyer are bright and normal and compete extremely well in the business world. PSU is a very good state university, but its size is offputting to some and some of the social sub-cultures may also be a turn-off. I would look very closely again at U Michigan and U Virginia as both of those schools have features that are similar to PSU. Have you considered any other schools that might be a better fit rather than a large state university? Also, given that you are OOS at all three, their cost ($22,712 at PSU, $27,515 at UVA, and $29,131 at UM) is roughly equivalent to the cost at many very good private schools that might be a better fit.</p>
<p>Also, for the record on selectivity as measured by acceptance rate and SAT scores, the facts are:
NYU 36%, 1210-1410
U Virginia 37% 1220-1430
U Michigan 47%, 1210-1420</p>
<p>I don't think you get it alexandre. Although I would go to UM over PSU and think it is a great school, ranks aren't everything in my opinion. I would definitely want to attend princeton/emory/cornell/etc instead of UM for comp engineering, for example--even though it is ranked lower.</p>
<p>edit: my mistake, I couldn't go to UM because of the ~40K tuition after housing, etc...</p>
<p>And for my lack info-- again, when I have aroung 8,800 post and post an average of 9 posts a day, I might be as technical and knowledgeable about ranks as you.</p>
<p>I really don't mind the large size of PSU. In fact, I really like it as opposed the small size of some private schools. I was thinking about private schools like Lehigh and BC, but I don't think they're as good as UM or UVA overall (in terms of overall academics, rankings, social atmoshpshere, things to do, prestige, etc). What I didn't like about PSU was that apart from Schreyers kids (and a few other smart kids), there weren't any of the "serious type". Also, I don't mean to offend anyone, but when I see lots of kids - with vastly less qualifications taking the same classes as me -I get annoyed. I know this international student with a 1700/2400 SAT and 3.2 GPA admitted in Smeal, and another kid with a 1150 SAT but in the top 10% of his class in a very easy high school (I had a 3.85 GPA and wasn't even in the top 10%). Then I see some kids that are doing electrical engineering at PSU because they didn't get into schools like Purdue, Illinois and Michigan. Now, I'm not saying PSU has a bad engineering program. In fact, I don't think Purdue and Illinois are much better. I just feel that the overall quality of the student body matters a LOT in one's academic experience. I'm sure people that graduate from PSU's Business or Engineering schools get some great jobs by keeping a good GPA and getting involved. However, I just don't want to feel as if I'm the only one making efforts to succeed. I need someone to push me even more so that I can do even better. At UM or UVA I feel I'll meet more people that will help me in that respect.</p>
<p>yeah, I know exactly how you feel. I had to go out of my way to meet people from schreyer in order to get motivated in academics. Most people sitting next to me in regular courses did appear to have lower credentials than I and seemed more concerned in socializing/conversing about their boyfriends, st. patrick's day, FOOTBALL, etc. Granted that if more kids are competitive, it will be somewhat harder to get A's.</p>
<p>As hawkette pointed out,</p>
<p>-% OF STUDENTS RANKING IN TOP 10% IN HS CLASS
PSU: 37% U Michigan: 90% U Virginia: 88%
% OF STUDENTS WITH HS GPA > 3.75 (Unweighted)
PSU: 25% U Michigan: na U Virginia: 86%</p>
<p>Basically, this sums up what I talked about. (In fact I wonder how many of those 37% at PSU had SAT's of 1150-1200 but ended up in the top 10% of their class becuase of their high school).</p>
<p>Frasifrasi, yep you just took those words right out of my mind. I'm sure that with your high SAT scores and really good HS GPA, you feel the same way as I do. Those are exactly the kids I'm talking about. And there are plenty of them at PSU.</p>
<p>What's "not to get" frasi? You were pretty explicit. You said that you could think of many universities that are "far better" than Michigan and UVa. I asked you which ones you thought were much better and you responded by saying: </p>
<p>"for my field(comp engineering), I can think of more than 20. A few of which include MIT, caltech, stanford, carnegie mellon,purdue, cornell, texas, etc..." </p>
<p>In other words, you think Michigan is not among the top 20 in Engineering or Business, which is completely incorrect. McIntire and Ross are among the top 5 undergraduate Business programs in the nation and Michigan is clearly among the top 10 in Engineering. Only 1 BBA program (Wharton) is concidered better than Michigan and even then, it is only marginal, not "much better". For Engineering, only 4 universities (Cal, Caltech, MIT and Stanford) have better programs, and again, not by a large margin.</p>
<p>If you had said that you don't like Michigan or UVa for non-academic reasons and that if it were up to you, you would rather go to 20 or so universities over Michigan, your statement would have been perfectly acceptable. But you were saying that you can think of more than 20 universities that are "far better" than Michigan. That sounds excessive.</p>
<p>I meant far better in terms of overall undergraduate "experience" and quality of education. For example, other schools that are ranked lower have better facilities, nicer campus, smaller classes, equally competitive peers, better location, etc. Example: Penn state is ranked higher than harvard on the rank you posted for computer engineeing; which school do you think I would rather attend--PSU or harvard???</p>
<p>:) interesting discussion,guys.</p>
<p>Newsweek May 21,2007 pg. 61 Title: Meet the Next Billionaires
features 3 new PSU comp. sci grads (this year)and a program for start ups called Y-Combinator. One of the veterans in Y-Combinator is also a Penn State grad. These PSU seniors came up with a program called "Weebles" and have turned down at least one offer for it in the low millions.<a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18628572/site/newsweek/%5B/url%5D">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18628572/site/newsweek/</a></p>
<p>My point: Grow where you are planted. These are all great colleges with great programs. Get in, have a goal and go get it. It doesn't matter if you are sitting next to a genius or a kid with a 1000 SAT. Everybody has something to offer and you can set your own bar of excellence. You will find your intellectual/social peers at all these schools. It just takes time.</p>
<p>Schreyers: They take an additional 300 juniors and may take a few sophomores. Schreyers kids are picked not only on academics but also on leadership and involvement. So the 1500 sat guy who does nothing but study will not be invited.</p>
<p>Your generation is graduating into a new world economy. No one will wait for you to catch up. Learn how to get what you need and work your butt off.
All of these colleges offer you the opportunity to excel.</p>
<p>You are making way too much of the stats. It's all about YOU.</p>
<p>Frasi, you know very little about Michigan. That in of itself isn't a bad thing. But you try to pass your opinion as fact. You are now trying to say that Michigan has poor facilities (Michigan's facilities are actually world class), is located in a bad area (have you even been to Ann Arbor) and somehow provides a poor overall undergraduate experience. None of those are true.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Example: Penn state is ranked higher than harvard on the rank you posted for computer engineeing; which school do you think I would rather attend--PSU or harvard???
[/quote]
Penn State of course... that is, if you really love computer engineering and wants to work as a computer engineer. Go to Harvard if computer is your intellectual interest and you really want to be a banker, lawyer or doctor when you graduate.</p>
<p>Um...you really believe you will have a better undergraduate experience at Harvard...</p>
<p>I would rather go to PSU than Harvard, and this is coming from someone who has grown up hating penn state's athletic teams. It seems the psu haters here resent the fact that some of its students succeed while still enjoying themselves socially, and that by not partying (and in my opinion, depriving themselves of great friends, memories, and experiences...but to each his own) these people are "more worthy" of good degrees and jobs. People at UVA and Mich aren't uptight about stuff, and it seems that's what you're looking for. Although you are right in saying that there probably is more of an academic focus at Mich or UVA than at PSU, but it still seems like neither are a good fit.</p>
<p>I personally think UM and UVA are a better fit. I don't hate PSU. I just don't get along with most of the people beceause my definition of fun is far different from theirs. </p>
<p>And just for your information. At the #2 party school in the nation, partying = getting wasted/completely thrashed. I don't think getting wasted every weekend is something to be proud of (Oh but I made some great friends, have great memories and experiences while getting wasted is all bull****).</p>