<p>Michigan is so much better than Duke and Notre Dame.</p>
<p>^ :D</p>
<p>This thread should be moved to the "College Search and Selection" forum. Just for kicks and giggles.</p>
<p>UCBChem, don't tempt me! hehe! You really have a morbid sense of humor. </p>
<p>Keefer, do behave!</p>
<p>I question University of Michigan- Ann Arbor undergraduate education as well. I think they are better with graduate students.</p>
<p>Coolbreeze, it depends on the department. For example, Michigan's Business school is suprisingly undergraduate focused. Michigan's Chemistry, Economics and Humanities departments are also suprisingly undergraduate focused. Most classes in the Classics, Creative Writing and Philosophy have fewer than 20 students and are taught by leading professors. Most of my Econ classes past the intermediate level (i.e., most of my classes during my junior and senior year) had fewer than 20 students. </p>
<p>But I agree that relatively speaking, Michigan is slightly (not significantly mind you) better at graduate studies than at undergraduate studies. In terms of overall quality, Michigan is definitely among the top 10 as a graduate institution, arguably among the top 5. At the undergraduate level, it is definitely among the top 20 (only among national research universities), arguably among the top 10.</p>
<p>Alexandre, what upper-level (400 level) econ classes did you take back then? So far, all of my 400-level classes have more than 20 students.</p>
<p>ProudWolverine, with the exception of Econ 401 and 401 (both of which had close to 100 students but both of which I took Freshman year), most of my 400 level courses had fewer than 20 students. That includes Econ 380, 407, 409, 411, 435, 442 and several others. Many of my other 400 level classes (such as Econ 403, 406, 411, 412, 413, 432, 441) had over 30 students, but they were broken down into discussion sections which were always led by full time professors.</p>
<p>I didn't really matter that much to me anyways how big the classes were. You'd have to be out of your mind to expect 10 people classes in science/math/engineering type of classes at any school. The humanities and liberal arts classes at Michigan could easily have 5-10 people in many classes. While the science classes are going to be big anywhere you go. Intermediate level science classes are probably 30-40 students. If you really want smaller classes, just avoid the popular majors, like Psychology, Economics, Biology, Mechanical Engineering, and maybe Biomedical Engineering nowadays. </p>
<p>Fact is usnews faculty to student ratio is incredibly flawed. Some of the elite schools have 10-1 or smaller student to faculty ratio, yet if you do some research, you'll find that average class sizes are always 20-30, of course with the exception of LACs. </p>
<p>I don't really think our graduate studies are better than undergraduate studies, I can see that being the case if you engage in research as a graduate student, maybe at a PhD level, but the professors teaching graduate courses are the same ones teaching undergrad courses, class sizes are pretty much the same (in engineering at least), their office hours work the same way, I don't understand why some people say our non-research graduate programs are better than undergraduate.</p>